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Posted

Howdy. :)

 

I'm finally learning some music theory and I have a simple question that hopefully someone will be so kind as to answer.

 

If a text refers to something as a minor scale, is it talking about the 'natural' minor scale?

 

Thanks in advance. :)

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Posted


If a text refers to something as a minor scale, is it talking about the 'natural' minor scale?

 

 

Sadly, no.

 

There are at least three minor scales: Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic.

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Posted
Sadly, no.


There are at least three minor scales: Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic.



Yes, I get that. But if it says 'Enter the notes for the following minor scales', then lists A minor, G minor, etc, which one does it want? :confused: Any clue?

Or, if someone calls out 'play in the key of E minor,' which of these scales are they referring to?

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Posted
Yes, I get that. But if it says 'Enter the notes for the following minor scales', then lists A minor, G minor, etc, which one does it want?
:confused:
Any clue?


Or, if someone calls out 'play in the key of E minor,' which of these scales are they referring to?



I think if only minor is mentioned, it probably refers to natural minor (aeolian).
Otherwise melodic or harmonic minor would be specified.

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Posted

Sadly, no.


There are at least three minor scales: Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic.

 

 

This is correct.

 

Half-ass teachings will talk about "the Minor scale" as one scale...the Natural Minor scale. But any school teaching or theory type teachings will actually show THE Minor scale as being the Harmonic Minor, scale. But they will cover the Natural Minor and Melodic Minor too. Also, they WILL specify each by name until they develop a foundation.

 

In the case of your book you need to decipher what they are talking about, a scale or a Key.

 

But in the end, girevik has it right...you'll learn that the term "Minor Scale" is used loosely when people don't quite get the full picture of "Minor", or the people assume you understand how "Minor" works.

 

So, with all the teachings out there it might be good to let us know what "text" your referencing and what they are actually showing about the scale (intervals, chord progressions, cadences, etc...).

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Posted

Santuzzo nailed it

Natural minor (aeolian)

 

 

Only in Guitar Land.

 

I Guitar Land, "minor" means "Natural minor", and guitarists also acknowledge Harmonic Minor, as an "advanced" thing to worry about,

and Melodic Minor ... I've never bumped into that in Guitar Land.

 

If you are in Piano Land, and possibly Classical Singer Land, then "minor" means "Melodic Minor".

 

This is one of the "big dialect gaps" between these kinds of musicians.

 

I've bumped into this often enough to know it's not just some strange one-person thing. Indeed, a look at my daughter's recent grade 2 or 3 piano theory papers confirms...

 

GaJ

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Posted

I remember when I was younger and learning out of scale/guitar books, then I got in a theory course.

 

"Minor" is quite a few guitarists first steps from playing scale patterns into understanding a bit about music itself.

 

My son brought home a scale sheet a couple of years ago from Jazz Camp (put on by a local college) and "the Minor scale" on the sheet was a Harmonic Minor. He was confused. Once I showed him how "the Minor scale" uses that leading tone it became clear.

 

You can think about it one way or the other, but one is not the complete picture.

 

It would be good for the OP to post his reference. Maybe he has the given scale notated and can't read it, or maybe they are dealing with a strict Aeolian progression, etc...who knows. General questions usually bring on a not so 'simple' reply. (but everyone learns in the end)

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Posted
Yes, I get that. But if it says 'Enter the notes for the following minor scales', then lists A minor, G minor, etc, which one does it want?
:confused:
Any clue?





Can you post a copy of the text?



Or, if someone calls out 'play in the key of E minor,' which of these scales are they referring to?



Could be any. You'll have to use your ears and knowledge of theory to determine which kind of "minor" fits best for the song.

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Posted
Howdy.
:)

I'm finally learning some music theory and I have a simple question that hopefully someone will be so kind as to answer.


If a text refers to something as a minor scale, is it talking about the 'natural' minor scale?


Thanks in advance.
:)


Now, you know there's no such thing as a simple question on this forum. Try asking a question from a musician and getting a straightforward answer;)

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Posted
:o It's the idiot's guide to music theory. I bought it a long time ago but am just now going through it.

Thank you for your help thus far. :)
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Posted
Yes, I get that. But if it says 'Enter the notes for the following minor scales', then lists A minor, G minor, etc, which one does it want?
:confused:
Any clue?


Or, if someone calls out 'play in the key of E minor,' which of these scales are they referring to?



Technically, yes it could be any one of the three. Practically though, in the land of blues/rock/folk music where the players, while often times very good, are equally as often not very well versed in theory; when a band leader calls out the key of Em, he/she means E, F#, G, A, B, C, D.

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Posted
:o
It's the idiot's guide to music theory. I bought it a long time ago but am just now going through it.


Thank you for your help thus far.
:)



Here's what everyone's arguing about (:lol:)....When non classical musos talk about the minor scale, what they are refferring to is the 6th mode of the minor scale: the Aeolian mode. It is also known as the Natural Minor Scale. And since it is the minor scale most used in pop, and rock styles, the nomenclature used by pop and rock musicians refer to it as Aeolian as "minor".

So when a guitar teaching site asks for "B minor"...they are most likely referring to the B Aeolian, or B Natural Minor scale, since the guitar is considered a "pop" instrument (unlike say, the oboe).

Nat Minor intervals are spelled: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5 b6, b7, 8
B Nat Minor is spelled in notes: B C# D E F# G A B

Hope it helps.

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Posted
Here's what everyone's arguing about (
:lol:
)....When non classical musos talk about the minor scale, what they are refferring to is the 6th mode of the minor scale: the Aeolian mode. It is also known as the Natural Minor Scale. And since it is the minor scale most used in pop, and rock styles, the nomenclature used by pop and rock musicians refer to it as Aeolian as "minor".


So when a guitar teaching site asks for "B minor"...they are most likely referring to the B Aeolian, or B Natural Minor scale, since the guitar is considered a "pop" instrument (unlike say, the oboe).


Nat Minor intervals are spelled: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5 b6, b7, 8

B Nat Minor is spelled in notes: B C# D E F# G A B


Hope it helps.



Excellent. Thanks! This seems to tie the aforementioned info together.

Thanks, everyone, for the input.

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Posted
Here's what everyone's arguing about (
:lol:
)....When non classical musos talk about the minor scale, what they are refferring to is the 6th mode of the minor scale: the Aeolian mode. It is also known as the Natural Minor Scale. And since it is the minor scale most used in pop, and rock styles, the nomenclature used by pop and rock musicians refer to it as Aeolian as "minor".


So when a guitar teaching site asks for "B minor"...they are most likely referring to the B Aeolian, or B Natural Minor scale, since the guitar is considered a "pop" instrument (unlike say, the oboe).


Nat Minor intervals are spelled: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5 b6, b7, 8

B Nat Minor is spelled in notes: B C# D E F# G A B


Hope it helps.



Yes

I stand by my answer. Aeolian is the ticket for rock and pop. Most common. Dont let all this banter confuse you.

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Posted
Yes


I stand by my answer. Aeolian is the ticket for rock and pop. Most common. Dont let all this banter confuse you.



For hard rock and metal I'd agree. Once you get away from that realm, I'm of the opinion you'd want to ditch the minor 6 in natural minor for a natural 6 (as in dorian). At least that's the way I hear things.

Sorry for the confusing banter. :lol:

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Posted

Like I say "Minor" is usually the guitarist first exploration into how music works, and has been for a very long time.

 

The best place to explore it is in a cadence back to the Im chord. You'll never just say "Minor scale" again. When you want to convey the Natural Minor, you will use "Natural" in front of Minor. And if you just say "minor scale", you will think Harmonic Minor.

 

Using Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic terminology will not only allow you to convey something more correctly but you will also understand why you use them.

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Posted


The best place to explore it is in a cadence back to the Im chord. You'll never just say "Minor scale" again. When you want to convey the Natural Minor, you will use "Natural" in front of Minor. And if you just say "minor scale", you will think Harmonic Minor.


Using Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic terminology will not only allow you to convey something more correctly but you will also understand why you use them.

 

 

Nomenclature in music is specific. Agreed.

 

Language, while it needs to be specific to be clear, is not. Especially when dealing with varying degrees of understanding.

 

It is like saying "If you understand what a major chord is, you'll never say 'G chord' again!"

 

If one is on stage and some one is hollering the key " G MINOR" at them, it would be rather goofy to yell back "What kind of MINOR?" If you are playing a rock or a pop tune, it is understood that it is Aeolian. Just like it is understood that a 'G chord' is a G major triad. It is implied in the USAGE OF THE LANGUAGE. Not in it's correctness.

 

Just like subject of the sentence "Open the door." is UNDERSTOOD (understood you) with out it being specified.

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Posted
For hard rock and metal I'd agree. Once you get away from that realm, I'm of the opinion you'd want to ditch the minor 6 in natural minor for a natural 6 (as in dorian). At least that's the way I hear things.


Sorry for the confusing banter.
:lol:



Not confusing the banter at all man. This has turned into an interesting discussion.FWIW I am a "dorian guy" as well for minor treatments. :thu:

Just ChordGirl's question seemed to be one of: What does someone mean when they say "Hey Let's do this in G Minor"? They aren't just referring to the scale but all the associated chords as well. TYPICALLY this is natural minor - again in most pop, rock, metal environments. MOST of the time this is what is intended. Least in my experiences.

3shiftgtr - :thu:
We are in lock step. That is how I look at it as well. This is language we are discussing here as much as theory.

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Posted


Just ChordGirl's question seemed to be one of: What does someone mean when they say "Hey Let's do this in G Minor"? They aren't just referring to the scale but all the associated chords as well.
TYPICALLY
this is natural minor - again in most pop, rock, metal environments.
MOST
of the time this is what is intended. Least in my experiences.


 

 

And, it's probably the answer a beginning theory text is looking for too.

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Posted

Nomenclature in music is specific. Agreed.


Language, while it needs to be specific to be clear, is not. Especially when dealing with varying degrees of understanding.


It is like saying "If you understand what a major chord is, you'll never say 'G chord' again!"


If one is on stage and some one is hollering the key " G MINOR" at them, it would be rather goofy to yell back "What kind of MINOR?" If you are playing a rock or a pop tune, it is understood that it is Aeolian. Just like it is understood that a 'G chord' is a G major triad. It is implied in the USAGE OF THE LANGUAGE. Not in it's correctness.


Just like subject of the sentence "Open the door." is UNDERSTOOD (understood you) with out it being specified.

 

 

Well if I buy a book teaching me the specifics of music theory, I would assume there would be some specifics.

 

The OP might find that if the book did use the term 'minor scale' loosely (instead of Natural Minor) then the book will also need to firm it up and explain that term doesn't mean what they said it means. Kind of a strange way to go about it but you're always at the mercy of the teacher.

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Posted
Kind of a strange way to go about it but you're always at the mercy of the teacher.



Love it!:thu: My students are at MY MERCY!:lol: Oh the POWER!!!!!:lol:

Yeah, it is amazing how much errant stuff is out there.

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Posted

Ok, so this peaked my interest so I did a quick wiki search to understand what harmonic/melodic minor is, and in short it explains that the only difference from natural minor is a sharp 7th. If thats accurate, whats so confusing other than it being non-diatonic? I understand that it opens up unique chords, but is it really that simple?

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Posted

Ok, so this peaked my interest so I did a quick wiki search to understand what
harmonic/melodic minor
is, and in short it explains that the
only difference from natural minor is a sharp 7th
. If thats accurate, whats so confusing other than it being non-diatonic? I understand that it opens up unique chords, but is it really that simple?

 

 

Harmonic minor has a natural 7.

 

Melodic minor has a natural 6 in addition to a natural 7.

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Posted

Yeah its that simple.

 

In a nutshell the natural minor scale has a b7 - which removes the nice resolve of the Leading Tone (the 7th) back to the root. So to restore that semi tone the 7 was made natural. So that it leads back to the resolve point (root) smoother. Creating Harmonic Minor

 

But in doing so the jump between the 6th to the 7th was increased. So the Melodic version with the natural 6th restored that interval.

 

That's the gist.

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