pain in thumb joint - carpal tunnel syndrome/thenar atrophy?

[Santuzzo]

Usually X-rays are the first thing they do. My first thought was stress fracture or joint wear from bar chords and the like. Or a simple sprain. Carpal would involve stiffening and pain at the top of the hand and/or inside the wrist area. No?

 

 

I don't know.

 

I also had pain in the wrist as well as in the whole arm.

The tingling senasation in the hand and fingers (esp. thumb, index- and middlefinger) is another typical symptom for carpal tunnel syndrome, so I really do have to have those tests taken.

I just wish I could have gotten an appointment sooner than next week wednesaday....

[1001gear]

Yeah. Here X-rays are almost standard. Takes a couple minutes, the machine just sits there otherwise.

Can you attribute the pain to any circumstance or did it just magically appear?

[Santuzzo]

Yeah. Here X-rays are almost standard. Takes a couple minutes, the machine just sits there otherwise. Can you attribute the pain to any circumstance or did it just magically appear?

 

 

It definitely comes from playing, but I don't always have the pain or the tingling sensation during playing. Sometimes it just starts when I'm resting my hand.

 

I guess, I better take a break from playing until I know for sure whether or not it is CTS. At least I should stop playing immediately if I feel any of the symptoms.

This sucks.

[mosiddiqi]

Sorry to hear that Lars ...but yeah, take a break. Not worth risking more damage till you at least know exactly what's going on.

[jeremy_green]

Lars definitely take a break - it's a great time to work on your slide playing!

[meganutt7]

I agree with the guys. You need to just not play for a few days... Get that gyroscope and mess with it for a few days instead. You need to let your muscles, nerves, tendons, ligaments and all the rest REST UP!!! You can't keep aggressively practicing if it feels bad to you...

Another thing that might be the cause of this is UNDUE FRETTING HAND PRESSURE. I find that even I have a hard time seperating the two hands power structure. If I pick hard, I end up pressing really hard. This can lead to alot of problems and also inefficiency while playing.

Try to pay attention to how hard you ARE pressing down and how hard you NEED to be pressing down!!

[jeremy_green]

I have a hard time seperating the two hands power structure. If I pick hard, I end up pressing really hard.

 

 

I have this exact same thing... it's like any expression I put into my picking affects my fretting hand as well which i find REALLY hard to change. I guess awareness is the first step to fixing something.

 

At least that is what i tell myself!

[Santuzzo]

Thanks again, guys !
I appreciate your support!

I will definitely take a break from practicing, today I got a brace for my arm to keep the wrist straight and soon I will have a Powerball, too (haven't ordered it yet, but I will).

I gotta remind myself it's not the end of the world if I don't practice for some time:thu:

I can still use this time off from the guitar for more listening, ear-training, learning more about mixing, etc.

Lars

[jeremy_green]

Yeah Lars, That was my point with the slide comment. There is no need to stop per se - just stop intense technique stuff. Work on low RPM things like note reading, slide, theory, touch (light). Anything without fast finger movements. Use the time to read "effortless Mastery" or the "music Lesson". Buy a theory workbook and start working through it. Watch a concert DVD and try to visually break down the parts.

 

That's the great thing with music there are a lifetime's worth of angles you can come at it from. Sometimes i get much more from working the mental aspects of playing. Visualize, draw out fretboard scales and chords looking to make observations or new inversions. There is tons.

 

All the stuff you seem to have little time for because you are focusing on technique.

[Santuzzo]

Yeah Lars, That was my point with the slide comment. There is no need to stop per se - just stop intense technique stuff. Work on low RPM things like note reading, slide, theory, touch (light). Anything without fast finger movements. Use the time to read "effortless Mastery" or the "music Lesson". Buy a theory workbook and start working through it. Watch a concert DVD and try to visually break down the parts. That's the great thing with music there are a lifetime's worth of angles you can come at it from. Sometimes i get much more from working the mental aspects of playing. Visualize, draw out fretboard scales and chords looking to make observations or new inversions. There is tons. All the stuff you seem to have little time for because you are focusing on technique.

These are all great ideas!

Thanks, Jeremy

Now I have time to listen to all those CDs and to watch all those concert DVDs I have been buying lately:)

[meganutt7]

Yes... The thing about music is, once your technique is passable (meaning, you can strum chords in rhythm, can move your fretting hand fingers reasonably efficiently and have decent pick coordination) the ghame becomes ALOT more about MENTAL exercises than about killing your hands...

Try to think of stuff more. Pick a song. Analyze its chord progression. Then try to think in your head where all the thirds of each chord are on the neck. then try to conceive of a line that hits each and every third of each chord on the downbeat of every new chord change. Then, play it a couple of times. SOFTLY. Don't strain your hands. Put it down. Now think of another line or two, or ten...

Think of ways to arpeggiate that yuo have never used before. Instead of going in order (1,3,5,7) try to vary it somehow.. maybe: 1,7,5,1,3... And then even WRITE DOWN the resulting sequences if you run them through changes or through a key's diatonic chords. Use standard notation, tab or any other method you use to notate. This way, when your hands feel better, you can have finger practice to go with your mental practice.

There are MILLIONS of things you can do with your downtime. Use it wisely.

[Santuzzo]

Yes... The thing about music is, once your technique is passable (meaning, you can strum chords in rhythm, can move your fretting hand fingers reasonably efficiently and have decent pick coordination) the ghame becomes ALOT more about MENTAL exercises than about killing your hands... Try to think of stuff more. Pick a song. Analyze its chord progression. Then try to think in your head where all the thirds of each chord are on the neck. then try to conceive of a line that hits each and every third of each chord on the downbeat of every new chord change. Then, play it a couple of times. SOFTLY. Don't strain your hands. Put it down. Now think of another line or two, or ten... Think of ways to arpeggiate that yuo have never used before. Instead of going in order (1,3,5,7) try to vary it somehow.. maybe: 1,7,5,1,3... And then even WRITE DOWN the resulting sequences if you run them through changes or through a key's diatonic chords. Use standard notation, tab or any other method you use to notate. This way, when your hands feel better, you can have finger practice to go with your mental practice. There are MILLIONS of things you can do with your downtime. Use it wisely.

Thanks Danny, there great ideas!

[jonPhillips]

Don't worry too much about one thumb muscle being slightly smaller than the other. All kinds of stuff you'd think would be symmetrical in the human body actually aren't.

 

Take a really good look at the next pair of tits you see

[Santuzzo]

Don't worry too much about one thumb muscle being slightly smaller than the other. All kinds of stuff you'd think would be symmetrical in the human body actually aren't. Take a really good look at the next pair of tits you see

[mikeylikesit]

I have been dealing with moderate CTS for years now and I have tried alot of different methods, short of surgery to alleviate the symtoms. Playing guitar was out of the question as my hand would simply go numb after a couple of minutes. I was nervous about having surgery because of the horror stories I'd read. But early this year I decided I'd had enough and underwent surgery this past March.

I was playing again for 15 to 20 minutes a day within two weeks. After a month I started supervised hand rehabilitation and after eight weeks I was playing pain free for the first time in ten years. I've been lucky because the CTS hasn't caused any long term muscle damage. I would strongly encourage any of you that have pain or numbness to see a hand specialist.

Mike

[Santuzzo]

I have been dealing with moderate CTS for years now and I have tried alot of different methods, short of surgery to alleviate the symtoms. Playing guitar was out of the question as my hand would simply go numb after a couple of minutes. I was nervous about having surgery because of the horror stories I'd read. But early this year I decided I'd had enough and underwent surgery this past March. I was playing again for 15 to 20 minutes a day within two weeks. After a month I started supervised hand rehabilitation and after eight weeks I was playing pain free for the first time in ten years. I've been lucky because the CTS hasn't caused any long term muscle damage. I would strongly encourage any of you that have pain or numbness to see a hand specialist . Mike

 

 

Thanks!

 

Would you say your hand is after the surgery 100% back to what it was before you had CTS problems?

Or does the hand feel a bit weaker due to the split ligament?

 

Lars

[mikeylikesit]

Thanks! Would you say your hand is after the surgery 100% back to what it was before you had CTS problems? Or does the hand feel a bit weaker due to the split ligament? Lars

 

 

As to playing guitar, Yes! I wish that I had had the surgery years ago. My surgeon explained to me that it would take 4 to 6 months for my hand to heal completely. And that has been the case.

 

A month after surgery, when I started rehab there was a 50% difference in strength between my left and right hands. Doing the stretches and exercises as prescribed has done wonders. My hand feels great.

 

I used the rehab time to rethink my approach to playing and to correct some of the things that got me into the shape I was in. Now, when I'm working on something new I slow down and get my fingers use to what I want them to do. Before I would just charge on and get all tensed up. VERY BAD! I also pay a lot of attention to may hand and body posture, ergonomics if you will. In fact I've taken on a classical approach to holding the guitar when sitting to play. It puts your hands and upper body in a much more relaxed neutral position.

 

Surgery should be a last resort. If treated in the early stages there are other less invasive ways to treat it. But for me I just ignored it to long.

[Santuzzo]

As to playing guitar, Yes! I wish that I had had the surgery years ago. My surgeon explained to me that it would take 4 to 6 months for my hand to heal completely. And that has been the case. A month after surgery, when I started rehab there was a 50% difference in strength between my left and right hands. Doing the stretches and exercises as prescribed has done wonders. My hand feels great. I used the rehab time to rethink my approach to playing and to correct some of the things that got me into the shape I was in. Now, when I'm working on something new I slow down and get my fingers use to what I want them to do. Before I would just charge on and get all tensed up. VERY BAD! I also pay a lot of attention to may hand and body posture, ergonomics if you will. In fact I've taken on a classical approach to holding the guitar when sitting to play. It puts your hands and upper body in a much more relaxed neutral position. Surgery should be a last resort. If treated in the early stages there are other less invasive ways to treat it. But for me I just ignored it to long.

Thank you very much!

I appreciate your input.
And it's great to hear your hand recovered fully !

[jeremy_green]

I hope there are a lot of younger players reading and learning from this thread. Hand issues are very common amongst long time guitarists and is a VERY serious thing when it sets in.

 

"no pain no gain" is total bull{censored}. Don't adopt this mentality for your own sake.

 

Straight wrists, take breaks, be aware of strain. Be smart

 

Good Luck Lars!

 

P.S. Lars - I highly doubt you have anything serious but are more likely on your way unless you change some habits. I wouldn't freak out too much at this point.

[meganutt7]

I hope there are a lot of younger players reading and learning from this thread. Hand issues are very common amongst long time guitarists and is a VERY serious thing when it sets in. "no pain no gain" is total bull{censored}. Don't adopt this mentality for your own sake. Straight wrists, take breaks, be aware of strain. Be smart Good Luck Lars! P.S. Lars - I highly doubt you have anything serious but are more likely on your way unless you change some habits. I wouldn't freak out too much at this point.

 

 

Agreed, Jeremy. On all counts.

 

lars, chill out, bro. I remember playing a gig with a certain famous band back in the day, at the end of which I heard a snap in my fretting hand wrist and after that snap, I could BARELY HOLD MY GUITAR NECK, much less BEND A NOTE!!! I flipped out and thought I either broke it, tore a tendon, got CTS or something worse. I rested it and did not play guitar for a few days, and slowly but surely, the pain subsided and eventually vanished. Very rarely does this sort of thing happen all at once. It takes time to damage yourself BADLY. Your body will give you signs. This sounds like a sign that you need to change some of your habits and practices around.

 

You'll live. You'll play more. You'll be more aware. All will be well.

 

Get the dynaflex gyro. Use it. Don't play guitar for a few days. Then, when you pick it back up, pay EXTRA CLOSE ATTENTION to POSTURE, HAND PRESSURE, EFFICIENCY and COMFORT!!! If it feels wrong, you're doing something wrong. Anytime you feel tension, STOP. Train yourself to RELAX YOUR BODY. Relax your fingers, wrist, shoulders, even relax your jaw. Don't tense up. You need to try and be loose all the time. Strong yet supple.

 

Also, when you start up again, avoid bending strings excessively and extra wide stretches, until your hand heals up.

 

You'll be fine, broseph.

[Santuzzo]

Agreed, Jeremy. On all counts. lars, chill out, bro. I remember playing a gig with a certain famous band back in the day, at the end of which I heard a snap in my fretting hand wrist and after that snap, I could BARELY HOLD MY GUITAR NECK, much less BEND A NOTE!!! I flipped out and thought I either broke it, tore a tendon, got CTS or something worse. I rested it and did not play guitar for a few days, and slowly but surely, the pain subsided and eventually vanished. Very rarely does this sort of thing happen all at once. It takes time to damage yourself BADLY. Your body will give you signs. This sounds like a sign that you need to change some of your habits and practices around. You'll live. You'll play more. You'll be more aware. All will be well. Get the dynaflex gyro. Use it. Don't play guitar for a few days. Then, when you pick it back up, pay EXTRA CLOSE ATTENTION to POSTURE, HAND PRESSURE, EFFICIENCY and COMFORT!!! If it feels wrong, you're doing something wrong. Anytime you feel tension, STOP. Train yourself to RELAX YOUR BODY. Relax your fingers, wrist, shoulders, even relax your jaw. Don't tense up. You need to try and be loose all the time. Strong yet supple. Also, when you start up again, avoid bending strings excessively and extra wide stretches, until your hand heals up. You'll be fine, broseph.

Thanks, Jeremy and Danny !

I appreciate your support.

I wore a brace all night and most of today, and so far I had no pain nor any of the tingling today, so that I think is a good sign. I'm starting to calm down a bit mroe in my head as in not panicking anymore.

And yes, I gotta be more smart in future with these kinds of signs and realize that pain is alway a warning and it means my body is telling me I am doing something wrong and I gotta change/stop it in order not to hurt it.

A few years ago I had some wrist pain and I got some physical therapy then, and the therapist was great, he always tolde m "pain is always a warning, take those warnings serious".

Thanks again, guys!

[Santuzzo]

UPDATE:

Good news!
This morning I had the electroanalytics test done by a neurologist and they measured the speed of electric impulses running through my nerve. The doctor told me the results are normal and there no signs of carpal tunnel syndrome. She also checked my thumb muscle and said there are also no signs of an atrophy.
She said it's most likely a tendon that was overstrained and got swollen, thus putting pressure on the nerve and as a result I had symptoms that are typical for CTS.

What I have to do now is start slowly with practicing and stop as soon as I get pain or tingling and most of all I need re-examine my technique and posture. For this I might see a physiotherapist, but the doctor advised me to wait like 2 weeks so my tendons can get back to normal.

this is such a relief, but I still see this as a warning and I learned my lesson!

I am about to order the Gyro now, decideed to buy it from www.powerballs.com since they accept PayPal payments, the other company would require for me to have a credit card (which I don't) in order to pay.

Guys, thanks a lot for all your help and support, it means a lot to me!

Lars

[mosiddiqi]

That's great news Lars!

[jeremy_green]

Very cool Lars!!

[meganutt7]

I told you, man. It's usually nothing. CTS or Tendonitis don't usually just APPEAR... there are always warning signs. Take this as a mild warning. Trust me, that gyroscope is just what you need. It will strengthern your wrist and forearm and make you more flexible.

I am glad it's nothing serious. Just take care of yourself.

Also, you may want to consider a few modifications to your posture, technique and tension levels to prevent this from becoming an issue in the future.