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What am I doing wrong?


Tubefox

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  • Members
Posted

Guys, I've been having a lot of wrist pain lately. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. It used to be the neck of my Ibanez RG, but I don't play it much any more and it still happens. I improved my technique, still no. I do stretches and exercises, which help but don't make it go away. I can't figure out if there's a deeper issue, or just overplaying. I have a chiropractor appointment on Monday.

 

Here's some pictures of my hand playing. Sorry if it's a bit hard to tell, it's hard to take pictures of your hand playing guitar at a good angle.

 

x418j7.jpg

 

4toy9f.jpg

 

24wvnh1.jpg

 

The phone is at an angle, not the guitar.

  • Members
Posted

Its hard to tell from these pics but USUALLY the issue with hand position and pain is a bent wrist. Your wrist needs to stay as straight as possible.

 

Usually folks are more concerned about looking cool so they sling their guitars down low - then the wrist is bent like crazy trying to reach the low E string. (Not referring this to you per se just sayin it is a common reason.)

 

Keep em straight, nice easy warm up, take breaks, if you feel soreness stop playing for a day or two until it mellows. Ice, Advil, ease back in.

 

DO NOT mess around with this stuff. No Pain No Gain is TOTAL BS when it comes to your hands.

 

Good luck!

  • Members
Posted

Its hard to tell from these pics but USUALLY the issue with hand position and pain is a bent wrist. Your wrist needs to stay as straight as possible.


Usually folks are more concerned about looking cool so they sling their guitars down low - then the wrist is bent like crazy trying to reach the low E string. (Not referring this to you per se just sayin it is a common reason.)


Keep em straight, nice easy warm up, take breaks, if you feel soreness stop playing for a day or two until it mellows. Ice, Advil, ease back in.


DO NOT mess around with this stuff. No Pain No Gain is TOTAL BS when it comes to your hands.

 

Yeah, I know. I've been putting Capsaicin cream on, which I think is helping. For a while I was icing it, but discovered that that doesn't really work.

 

And I play sitting down, since I'm just in my house. Here's pictures of my wrist, the first one on the Low E, the second on the High.

 

15q3gpt.jpg

 

2z82mi8.jpg

  • Moderators
Posted

Yeah, the pictures don't really show any obvious problems.

 

Are you playing with the least amount of finger-pressure and arm-tension possible? I've never had my wrist hurt but I have experienced extended hand-pain. I self-diagnosed (after a night in a Holiday Inn) and decided that I had tendonitis. I stopped playing for two weeks - and spent my time studying theory. Bought a new low-action guitar with itty-bitty strings - and concentrated on playing without tension. Now when I feel any discomfort, it's a reminder that I'm using too much muscle.

 

Some have made sport of this story but I think it's valid so here goes:

One of my teachers at Berklee was a bit of a child prodigy on the classical guitar. He was experiencing hand / wrist / arm pain and decided to "work through it". Long story short, he completely destroyed his carpal tunnels and has to wear electrodes on this arm (to this day I believe) to control the pain. Obviously he no longer plays the guitar. True story. Some of the Berklee guys probably know this guy - he's still at Berklee.

 

cheers,

  • Members
Posted

Yeah, I know. I've been putting Capsaicin cream on, which I think is helping. For a while I was icing it, but discovered that that doesn't really work.


And I play sitting down, since I'm just in my house. Here's pictures of my wrist, the first one on the Low E, the second on the High.


15q3gpt.jpg

2z82mi8.jpg

It's not the sideways angle, but the up-down angle that's usually the problem. Your wrist shouldn't bend up very much, if at all.

What I can see in the pictures looks OK to me.

  • Members
Posted

 

Yeah, the pictures don't really show any obvious problems.


Are you playing with the least amount of finger-pressure and arm-tension possible? I've never had my wrist hurt but I have experienced extended hand-pain. I self-diagnosed (after a night in a Holiday Inn) and decided that I had tendonitis. I stopped playing for two weeks - and spent my time studying theory. Bought a new low-action guitar with itty-bitty strings - and concentrated on playing without tension. Now when I feel any discomfort, it's a reminder that I'm using too much muscle.

 

 

I'll work on that. I know quite a bit of theory already, so I'm just focusing on tapping with my right hand.

  • Members
Posted

If your hand position is good (and the photos don't suggest otherwise), you could be using too much pressure, or maybe practising the same thing over and over too much.

Keep your left hand up - elbow at right angles or less. Don't let the neck drop too much. And try and relax that arm and wrist. (hard to give better advice without watching you play ;))

  • Members
Posted

 

If your hand position is good (and the photos don't suggest otherwise), you could be using too much pressure, or maybe practising the same thing over and over too much.

 

 

That's probably the issue, I frequently practice the same thing for three hours.

 

Also, I had studio time today, and retardedly tried to play a solo. Ouch.

  • Members
Posted

That's probably the issue, I frequently practice the same thing for three hours.

:eek:

Hmm, question answered, I think. ;)

 

Even to practice a whole song - with all its parts, chords, riffs, solos, etc - for that long is overdoing it a little IMO. But the less variety in what you are doing, the more you risk RSI-type strains.

 

IMO, it's a mistake to focus on a specific narrow technical task repetitively for too long. Beyond a certain point, there are diminishing returns. You should find that the more you play anything - varying what you do as much as possible - the more flexible and efficient your hands will get at any narrow technical challenge.

IOW, if you go off and practice something else for a while, you should find that when you come back to your original task you will be able to do it better, without having gone over it ad nauseam in the interim.

 

Of course, most things do require repetition in order to gain speed. But don't do it for too long. I would never play any one thing for more than a few minutes. I'd always go away from it and do something else (even stop practising altogether) and come back later.

  • Members
Posted

That's probably the issue, I frequently practice the same thing for three hours..

 

Here is the problem.

 

I agree with JonR (basically always!:thu:) I just havent seen this type practice (playing the same thing over and over) really paying off for me. Every time I think I just need to shed more on some passage it never seems to get past a point. MOST of my speed gains came with better fretboard awareness not working on patterns. In all honestly working on chords and their inversions made me faster ultimately. I think it is an issue of being more sure-footed in knowing where the notes are on the neck.

 

Work on songs and ear training. I would say no more than 20 minutes on one specific technique thing then move on. Keep it relaxed pressure wise and follow the wise advice of others above. Most of us have been there.

 

Sorry to hear you having these issues brother. Sadly most young players fail to take heed until it crops up - then they are all ears. Most of this could be avoided.

  • Members
Posted

Thanks for the advice, guys. Also playing is very easy for me, and I checked and I'm using about as little pressure as possible.

 

It's not so much I practice the same thing for three hours straight as I practice something for twenty minutes, and later for twenty minutes, and later for twenty minutes....

 

Also, good news: My left hand is getting better.

Bad news: My right hand is getting worse because I started tapping to give my left hand a break. On the plus side, I can now tap "Sweet Child O' Mine."

 

I graduated high school a year early, and I don't have a job or college, so I don't really have anything better to do.

  • Members
Posted

I have elected to take a break from playing. How long is advisable?

 

I dont think anyone can really answer that, but how long do you think you should take off? Whatever you answer, double it.:thu:

  • Members
Posted

I advise you to buy a dynaflex gyro, takea break and start playing again, SLOWLY and WITH LESS PRESSURE (both mental and physical) and see how you feel. Progress as slowly as you need to to be able to play/practice without re-aggrevating your injury...

  • Members
Posted

 

I advise you to buy a dynaflex gyro, takea break and start playing again, SLOWLY and WITH LESS PRESSURE (both mental and physical) and see how you feel. Progress as slowly as you need to to be able to play/practice without re-aggrevating your injury...

 

 

Okay, I have a dynaflex. So...There's one thing I'm a bit confused on. I'm assuming the exercises I want to do are wrist curls and reverse wrist curls.

 

Am I supposed to keep twisting my wrist to keep the ball going during these, or am I just supposed to get the ball going at a good speed and then just curl, adjusting as necessary?

  • Members
Posted

 

Okay, I have a dynaflex. So...There's one thing I'm a bit confused on. I'm assuming the exercises I want to do are wrist curls and reverse wrist curls.


Am I supposed to keep twisting my wrist to keep the ball going during these, or am I just supposed to get the ball going at a good speed and then just curl, adjusting as necessary?

 

 

You start it up with the base or with the starter cord, then just try to get it up t oa decent velocity in your hand and, once it is there, you begin your routine. That is how I have been doing it for a while now and it seems to be the best way to keep the momentum going...

  • Members
Posted

 

You start it up with the base or with the starter cord, then just try to get it up t oa decent velocity in your hand and, once it is there, you begin your routine. That is how I have been doing it for a while now and it seems to be the best way to keep the momentum going...

 

 

Okay. It looks like from this chart:

 

https://www.dynaflexpro.com/QuickStartGuides/DYN_Gyro_Exercise_Chart.pdf

 

That you're supposed to keep twisting, but that seems kind of weird.

  • Members
Posted

 

I have elected to take a break from playing. How long is advisable?

 

 

Some guys mentioned this, but I'd like to hammer this home:

 

a huge portion of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome comes from fretting hand wrist angle. If your wrist is not straight, you are closing the "tunnel" down and pressing its walls against the median nerve and tendons that bend the fingers. When your wrist is straight, the "tunnel" is open and the nerve and tendons are free. Think of it like a water hose: if you "crimp" the hose, no water gets thru. Same with the carpal tunnel....having your wrist at a near right angle for long periods of time "crimps" the nerves running thru it. It inflames and swells the walls, and irritates the nerves inside it.

 

Your photos show an angled fretting hand wrist. Set your strap and guitar so that your fretting hand is not at an angle; make the wrist be STRAIGHT.

 

Also, before you play, do hand stretching exercises. Here's one: Take your fretting hand and bend the wrist BACK (not forward) 90 degrees, like you were carrying a tray. Then take your picking hand and put your fingers on your fingers (thumb on thumb, index on index, middle on middle etc) simultaneously and press down and spread you fingers out. YOu should feel it stretch in your palm and wrist. Hold for 10 seconds, shake hands out and repeat. This helps to OPEN UP the carpal tunnel.

 

If you use good technique, and stretching exercises, after you take a couple of days off, you shouldn't have to ever take any time off....

 

Good luck!

  • Members
Posted

Some guys mentioned this, but I'd like to hammer this home:


a huge portion of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome comes from fretting hand wrist angle. If your wrist is not straight, you are closing the "tunnel" down and pressing its walls against the median nerve and tendons that bend the fingers. When your wrist is straight, the "tunnel" is open and the nerve and tendons are free. Think of it like a water hose: if you "crimp" the hose, no water gets thru. Same with the carpal tunnel....having your wrist at a near right angle for long periods of time "crimps" the nerves running thru it. It inflames and swells the walls, and irritates the nerves inside it.


Your photos show an angled fretting hand wrist. Set your strap and guitar so that your fretting hand is not at an angle; make the wrist be STRAIGHT.


Also, before you play, do hand stretching exercises. Here's one: Take your fretting hand and bend the wrist BACK (not forward) 90 degrees, like you were carrying a tray. Then take your picking hand and put your fingers on your fingers (thumb on thumb, index on index, middle on middle etc) simultaneously and press down and spread you fingers out. YOu should feel it stretch in your palm and wrist. Hold for 10 seconds, shake hands out and repeat. This helps to OPEN UP the carpal tunnel.


If you use good technique, and stretching exercises, after you take a couple of days off, you shouldn't have to ever take any time off....


Good luck!


 

Ex-f&%cking-actly! :thu:

  • Members
Posted

 


Your photos show an angled fretting hand wrist. Set your strap and guitar so that your fretting hand is not at an angle; make the wrist be STRAIGHT.

 

 

I showed my guitar teacher, along with several other guitarists I know, and my mother, who is a personal trainer. All of them said I was probably good - my wrist is only bent much on the lower strings, and my hand doesn't seem to be big enough for me to keep my wrist perfectly straight on those.

 

 

Also, before you play, do hand stretching exercises. Here's one: Take your fretting hand and bend the wrist BACK (not forward) 90 degrees, like you were carrying a tray.

 

 

Doing this one already. I was also doing forwards, I'm guessing I should stop doing this? I just looked up general wrist rehabilitation exercises and was doing them.

 

 

Then take your picking hand and put your fingers on your fingers (thumb on thumb, index on index, middle on middle etc) simultaneously and press down and spread you fingers out. YOu should feel it stretch in your palm and wrist. Hold for 10 seconds, shake hands out and repeat. This helps to OPEN UP the carpal tunnel.

 

 

Thank you, I hadn't been doing this one.

 

Okay guys, here's where I'm at:

 

-Took two days basically off. Maybe played guitar for five minutes between the two days, just to see where I was at or show someone something.

-Been doing stretches and using a dynaflex.

-Woke up today, used the dynaflex. Slowly played scales for five minutes. I think I'm getting better, I'm going to stick to straight playing today and probably avoid sweeps more movement intensive techniques, like legato runs and sweeps.

 

Also, speaking of carpal tunnel, I have good news and bad news:

 

My left hand is just sore from overuse. It shows no signs of carpal tunnel.

 

My right hand, however, has the "bump" near the wrist that is a warning sign of developing carpal tunnel.

 

I can't help but be slightly amused, as this is the opposite of what you'd think. I play right-handed, so the left hand is my fretting hand. The issue is I started doing very intricate tapping with my right hand when I had to rest my left hand. I am taking a break from tapping, and will work on my technique once my right hand seems better.

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