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We see a lot pf posts here asking how to play fast...


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Check out the attached clip. It's somewhat fast playing. What I do is record myself and listen back. This is a rough recording. I will refine it over the next couple of weeks. But from what I have read so far here, what works for me is trying to land of the right note at the right time. That and using speed dynamically. That is to say, speed up, slow down, pick, bend, vibrato, etc. And practice. If you want to play fast and use it melodically, you first have to master the technique. I still have a long way to go myself but I feel I'm making progress.

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Great thread. Lots of excellent advice. Now for my two cents regarding your initial question:

Just how do you guys go about playing melodically?



Go a step further than what Jon said. IMO the easiest way to learn to "sing" with your guitar is to transcribe and learn vocal vocal melodies on guitar. The thing I realized really early on is how much a vocalist can do with just a couple of notes. It's neat to see how very often vocalists will repeat simple melodies (sometime consisting of as few as 1 note) over various chord changes, and as the chord changes, that melody take on a different "feel" based on it's relationship with the underlying chords (if that makes sense).

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Check out the attached clip. It's somewhat fast playing. What I do is record myself and listen back. This is a rough recording. I will refine it over the next couple of weeks. But from what I have read so far here, what works for me is trying to land of the right note at the right time. That and using speed dynamically. That is to say, speed up, slow down, pick, bend, vibrato, etc. And practice. If you want to play fast and use it melodically, you first have to master the technique. I still have a long way to go myself but I feel I'm making progress.

 

 

Nice playing Axel! You got some nice shred going on there bro! Great technique and some tasty drama.

 

You raise a very valid point. I hear fast runs as much as a texture as i do a series of notes. So varying the speed of a run, during its duration, can create a melodic rhythmic passage.

 

Let's not forget you can phrase with rhythm too.

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The thing I realized really early on is how much a vocalist can do with just a couple of notes. It's neat to see how very often vocalists will repeat simple melodies (sometime consisting of as few as 1 note) over various chord changes, and as the chord changes, that melody take on a different "feel" based on it's relationship with the underlying chords (if that makes sense).

Exactly. Melodies (esp vocal ones) teach you about interval relationships, both horizontally (in time, melodic intervals) and vertically (harmony, chord tones and extensions) - as well as about good phrase shape and length.

And - as you say - the way vocalists improvise can be as useful as what a composed melody may show you.

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Check out the attached clip. It's somewhat fast playing. What I do is record myself and listen back. This is a rough recording. I will refine it over the next couple of weeks. But from what I have read so far here, what works for me is trying to land of the right note at the right time. That and using speed dynamically. That is to say, speed up, slow down, pick, bend, vibrato, etc. And practice. If you want to play fast and use it melodically, you first have to master the technique. I still have a long way to go myself but I feel I'm making progress.

 

Very good Axel! :thu: I like the attitude in your phrases and the way you articulate the faster bits. Very cool!.

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@GreenAsJade,
Hopefully this example will make things clearer. I apologize in advance for my playing :D
It's a first and only take, played as I went along, so I can blame that and the NyQuil!

1. First 12 bars, playing by focusing on the root for each change. I've seen this approach being taught, and the root is part of the chord tones. IMO it sounds OK, and probably better than not emphasizing the changes, but can get boring.

2. Second 12 bars. Playing based on the pentatonic minor scale. Cliches sound OK, and the notes from the scale sound OK. It's hard to sound bad using those notes. That does not mean it sounds good or interesting.

3. Next 12 bars. More interesting flavors by targeting the 3rd (I), b3 (IV), and 5 (V).

4. Next 12 bars using only chord tones. I like it, but after 12 bars of only these tones I feel it needs something different.

5. Final 12 bars. Combination of different tones. I think that's the key, combining scales, chords, blues phrases, passing notes, etc. Not that I made it sound good, but that's the idea :)

Feedback (pun intended) is always welcome, although this was really just a very quick take.

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In my 47 years of guitar playing I've come to understand that melodic lines are key, even if your goal is to play fast. Your solos should be true to the melody, not that you mimic the melody, but your phrases should support the melody.

While scales and chord forms will give you a pallet of "correct" notes it doesn't assure that your message is melodic. An analogy would be taking words out of the dictionary at random to create a sentence. Sure, all your words are real and spelled correctly, but the sentence will not make any sense, except by accident.

A common way to learn to play melodically is to play the actual melody of the tune in various scales or positions on the neck. Strive to put the same emphasis and feeling into your notes as a great singer would do. (Singers rarely "shred" vocal lines.) This provides a framework for both note content, and timing. From this you can then embellish and augment the melody to create your solo. Think of the really great solos you've heard and they are great because they convey emotion - they are speaking to you at an emotional level.

Speed is fine, but speed is typically an embellishment, it's a great trick in the toolbox, but a solid night of just "shredding" gets old in a hurry.

Scat your lines when creating solos. I'm a believer that you should "play what you hear". Scat the lines, or make up words and sing your solos. Most of what you play you should be able to "scat". Mentally and vocally almost everyone is more creative in improvisation than they are just ripping scales. Being able to think of your guitar as a singer and a voice will put you in touch with the feeling that you want to convey with your strings.

I spent many years learning all of Mel Bays' 4400 chord forms and playing every scale forwards and backwards until I didn't even have to think about it. But the real value in all that came when I knew the mechanics so well, that I could then concentrate on the emotion and feeling of phrases. This was an epiphany that set me free.

I used to think that playing with feeling was just a showbiz phrase, but it's not. I think of the "melody" as I play it and my fingers just reach for the notes I want because of all the years of scale memorization. Once you no longer have to think of the mechanics you can put your entire concentration into expressing yourself, and that's when guitar playing gets exciting.

So, does that mean that I don't work on slick little licks or a little flash, heck no I like that stuff too, but it's icing. The "cake" is in the melodic expressing and emotion. They called "tunes" for a reason.

Great topic, and one of my favorite.

Daryl Crowley
Guitarbum
SoundClick.com/DarylCrowley

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Man Daryl you nailed that! Beautifully said.

 

My analogy for the speed stuff: I like to think of like salt. Just a little used on food in the right spot can make something good taste even better.

 

Would you pour the whole jar on?

How does it taste now?

 

Your fast lines actually sound faster, and draw more attention, when they are surrounded with slow to mid tempo lines. Controlling contrast and using restraint traits that can take ages to master.

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:eek::thu:



I happened upon this a couple months ago and yeah, stunned. Not sure I want to know the story but as music, simply gorgeous. Prettiest of all the pretty electric guitar solos - Beck, Carlton, Santana - you know which ones. I want to tackle this one eventually; maybe with more interpretive - classical if you will, sensibility.

Here's the studio version.

au1haOoco2s

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Your fast lines actually sound faster, and draw more attention, when they are surrounded with slow to mid tempo lines. Controlling
contrast
and using restraint traits that can take ages to master.



:thu::thu::thu: I have a rather small weener, so I shave my pubes, WAIT :facepalm::facepalm:

OK really, the key is using fast to add to what you're doing vs. being fast just to be fast. I think Mo has said something a few times recently that really resonates with me. Don't play anything until you hear something in your head to play. Playing fast without purpose is just babbling.

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There are alot of good suggestions. I thought I would put in my 2 cents.
Learn a major scale and Learn to play it in every position. Learn to play the scale vertically, horizontally and diagonally. You can combine these variations of attacks and come up with something interesting.

On the other hand listen to the ending of Come Together by the Beatles. Simplicity at its finest. You don't need many notes to make a statement.

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:thu:
:thu:
:thu:
I have a rather small weener, so I shave my pubes, WAIT
:facepalm:
:facepalm:


OK really, the key is using fast to add to what you're doing vs. being fast just to be fast. I think Mo has said something a few times recently that really resonates with me. Don't play anything until you hear something in your head to play. Playing fast without purpose is just babbling.



Or hang with midgets. I think if the melody is plotted out right - "catchy" as an example descriptor, fast is irrelevant and may (too often does actually) even detract. Like that sentence. Fast should be reserved for embellishment and connectivity where appropriate.

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Charlie Parker said: "If you want to learn to play fast...... you gotta... play fast".

To my mind there is "fast playing" and "stunt guitar". Please don't take me wrong if you're a shredder. I don't shred but honestly, that would be cool if I could. But playing improvisation fast, or melody fast, is not the same as shredding with sweep picking or doing all those cool finger tapping things.

I've seen guys who can shred at astounding speed, but can't really play a song. Of course there are exceptions. I watched Al DiMeloa, play incredible melodic, and do it fast, and then break into a shred that would put the best hard core rocker on notice, but he used it sparingly.

Or listen to Larry Carlton, you never hear him shred or even play that fast, yet he is almost a Guitar God.

Shredding and stunts take a lot of practice, and I just don't have the time to spare from my recording and general practice, to learn the mechanics of shredding. I just don't care enough. And though I will probably never shred, I can live with that.

Young players are often obsessed with speed. They don't have the musical history and experience and speed is the first thing noticed by a novice or a non-musician. So they invest all their time in being fast at the expense of becoming a complete musician. However they are at the age where they could invest time in both, and some certainly do that.

The other thing that seems to depress new guitar players is the hopelessness of comparing themselves to their guitar heroes. They set the bar so high on themselves that they lose sight of the goal.

If you are bent on being the fastest guitar in the West, you are on the train to disappointment. The level of talent out there today is mind boggling, and stunt guitarists exist in every town down to the junior high level.

What a guitarist should be concentrating on is this: "Be the best guitar player YOU can be." There will always be guys that can kick your butt, no matter how good you get. And that's OK. It doesn't matter. What matters is that you perfect and improve your game. If you can't rock like Eddie VanHalen, so what? A gazillion other guys can't either. And there are a pretty good number than can probably kick Eddie's butt. It's all relative.

Work on timing, work on melody, work on being consistent. Work on actually being able to play some songs all the way through - solo. Work on not making stupid mistakes. These little "perfections" will make you far more valuable than a one-trick-pony-stunt-guitarist. Perfect YOUR sound. It has been said: "Through your weakness you will find your strengths."

If you can't shred, what are you good at? Perfect that.

And if you want to play fast, then spend the last 20 minutes of your practice regiment running scales and riffs as fast as you can. You will get faster every day, but only through a daily never failing regiment.

And if you are one of the lucky ones that can seamlessly work in the stunt guitar while actually playing a song.... You will be among the great guitar players in the world.

I always figure there are a million guitar players better than I am... and several million that are not nearly as good. That makes me way above average and I feel pretty good about that.

Daryl Crowley

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Great post Daryl!

 

The difference between most good unknown guitar players comes down to 2 words: song writing.

 

The ones we know and talk about made meaningful, impactful music with their chops. Or were a part of a project that did. Focus on being original and writing songs because, as Daryl says, there will always be someone who can kick your butt.

 

Do you think Bill Frisell or Larry Carlton give a crap that there are a million faster bar guitarists? Cool is cool. If you are original enough people will focus on that instead of what you aren't.

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there will always be someone who can kick your butt.

Right. That's why the pursuit of speed - or any purely technical accomplishment - is such a sad and pointless thing: someone's always going to be faster, there's always a new gun in town. Music is not a competition.

And it's why we should (instead) pursue our own individual expression - whether that's in songwriting, or in a personal style of playing. Nobody is gonna be better than me at being myself!

Nobody wants to hear a copyist if they can hear the original as easily, or as cheaply (and we generally can, at least on recordings).

But we all like to hear original voices in music, even if they're not amazingly accomplished. (OK, competence, some base level of accomplishment is necessary; but that's all. The rest is personality, musical intelligence, inventiveness.)

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Right. That's why the pursuit of speed - or any purely technical accomplishment - is such a sad and pointless thing: someone's always going to be faster, there's always a new gun in town. Music is not a competition.

 

 

I have to disagree with this (BIG TIME). There is nothing wrong with wanting to express yourself using "speed" as a vehicle. Or perhaps tapping is your passion, or sweep picking. There is something wrong with accepting defeat before you even get started. There is nothing pointless or sad about setting a goal and putting countless hours in to achieve, and you WILL achieve if your passionate and motivated enough and believe in yourself. I also disagree about music not being a competition. When you get to a certain level I believe it definitely is. But it's not a bad thing, contrary, it's what motivates us (me). To use an example, in sports, it's competition that drives an athlete to the next level. In music, I believe it's the same. I think it would be extremely boring if it weren't.

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I have to disagree with this (BIG TIME). There is nothing wrong with wanting to express yourself using "speed" as a vehicle. Or perhaps tapping is your passion, or sweep picking. There
is something wrong with accepting defeat
before you even get started. There is nothing pointless or sad about setting a goal and putting countless hours in to achieve, and you WILL achieve if your passionate and motivated enough and believe in yourself. I also disagree about music not being a competition. When you get to a certain level I believe it definitely is. But it's not a bad thing, contrary, it's what motivates us (me). To use an example, in sports, it's competition that drives an athlete to the next level. In music, I believe it's the same. I think it would be extremely boring if it weren't.

 

 

To me, music isnt a competition, its about expressing one's self, its not a race to the finish, its the journey there that should be enjoyed, writing your own songs, setting your own goals, nothing wrong with been inspired by someone but, setting yourself up against someone else just to prove "im quicker/sweep etc better than you" is not what music is about to me.

 

Speed for speeds sake, in my book is just crap, Michalel Angelo or what ever he is called, is very very fast, but sounds like {censored} to me and more than likely everybody else. The only people who are into that are other "shredders".

It loses it appell within 10 seconds..

 

Using speed to express yourself as you would speech is different, lines thrwon in here in there, perfect, speed in my face with an endless stream of notes, crap.

All my fav players use it as a method to express, where can you go after reeling non stop scales at 240BPM for 4 minutes, well you could slow it down but, like that ever happens

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