Members JesperT Posted January 28, 2011 Members Posted January 28, 2011 First a nice lesson I just stumbled over on comping like a piano player on guitar: http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_comping.html I've recently started getting into jazz, and am loving it so far. Each day I play a new song from my realbook of standards, and I'm currently only at "A". I try to analyze each song, I practice inversions and different ways to fret each chord I learn, I try out different ways of comping for each song and I practice improvising over the chordtones or by just listening to what my inner ear is telling me fits. I also listen to many different versions of each song on YouTube which I find is a great way to get into a song. Right now I'm playing "Autumn Leaves" and I have a question. I'm starting to learn harmonic analysis, and I tried using it and just wanted to check with you guys if I'm understanding it right? I'm playing it in C, so the verse goes: Dmi7 / G7 / Cmaj7 / Fmaj7 Bmi7(b5) / E7 / Ami / Ami Now, I'm thinking: I should approach this as being in C major, not A minor, because then the cadences make sense. If approached this way, the first chord (Dmi7) becomes the ii7 of C major, leading to V7, then resolving on C (I), a classic 2-5-1. The Fmaj I don't really know what to think of. Similarly (and to spot all the cadences), could the Bmi7(b5) then be seen as the ii7(b5)/V7/vi, as it sets up E7 (V7/vi), which then resolves into Ami (vi)? Am I getting this all wrong, or? Any comments much appreciated!
Members gennation Posted January 28, 2011 Members Posted January 28, 2011 First a nice lesson I just stumbled over on comping like a piano player on guitar: http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_comping.html I've recently started getting into jazz, and am loving it so far. Each day I play a new song from my realbook of standards, and I'm currently only at "A". I try to analyze each song, I practice inversions and different ways to fret each chord I learn, I try out different ways of comping for each song and I practice improvising over the chordtones or by just listening to what my inner ear is telling me fits. I also listen to many different versions of each song on YouTube which I find is a great way to get into a song. Right now I'm playing "Autumn Leaves" and I have a question. I'm starting to learn harmonic analysis, and I tried using it and just wanted to check with you guys if I'm understanding it right? I'm playing it in C, so the verse goes: Dmi7 / G7 / Cmaj7 / Fmaj7 Bmi7(b5) / E7 / Ami / Ami Now, I'm thinking: I should approach this as being in C major, not A minor, because then the cadences make sense. If approached this way, the first chord (Dmi7) becomes the ii7 of C major, leading to V7, then resolving on C (I), a classic 2-5-1. The Fmaj I don't really know what to think of. Similarly (and to spot all the cadences), could the Bmi7(b5) then be seen as the ii7(b5)/V7/vi, as it sets up E7 (V7/vi), which then resolves into Ami (vi)? Am I getting this all wrong, or? Any comments much appreciated! Yes, you would handle the first 3 bars, actually 4, as C Major (a IIm-V-I-IV). And the 2nd 4 bars as A Minor, a IIm7b5-V7-Im (even though it is still directly in C except for the E7). The second 4 bars are the relative minor of the first 3 bars, or the first 4. Changing the Vm in a Minor Key to a V7 chord instead is a very common practice in jazz, it sets up a stronger cadence. The Fmaj7 is the IV chord of C Major, but also the bVI chord of A Minor. You can relate it to the F Lydian scale if you want to tie a specific scale to the chords arpeggio. Here's a couple of lessons that will help you...definitely read them in this order. They cover a lot of chording as well as how to play through the changes, not just over them: Playing the Changes, the IIm-V-I: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/ii-v-i-playing-over-the-changes-t19.html I-VI-II-VPart 1: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/substitutions-and-the-vim-iim-v-i-progression-part-1-of-2-t3.html I-VI-II-V Part 2: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/substitutions-and-the-vim-iim-v-i-progression-part-2-of-2-t4.html Minor II-V-I: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/autumn-leaves-some-concepts-t14.html Autumn Leaves: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/autumn-leaves-some-concepts-t14.html Common Sounds Found in Jazz: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Jazz1/Jazz1TOC.htm
Members JesperT Posted January 28, 2011 Author Members Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks a lot! That's great! I'll have a look at the lessons.
Members gennation Posted January 28, 2011 Members Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks a lot! That's great! I'll have a look at the lessons. No problem, good luck. I also remembered I have this little tutorial on the chromatic turnaround/chord line in Autumn Leaves too (also found in Bluesette): http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/bluesette-the-chromatic-turnaround-t16.html
Members ednakayama Posted January 28, 2011 Members Posted January 28, 2011 Wow. That's a ton of information, Mike. You could organize it into a book, but maybe you've already done/thought of that. Great stuff, all the same. The only other thing I would add on Autumn Leaves would be to learn it in several keys, b/c: a) The progression, as noted, comes up in many many tunes in different keys.b) You get to practice major and minor 2-5s in many areas that way.c) This particular tune is played in different keys depending on who you're playing with (and what part of the country/world). The aforementioned Bluesette is another tune like that; I've played it in both Bb and G. If you need some voicings, I've been working on a series outlining the fundamental jazz voicings and how they are constructed. Voicings Every Guitarist Should Know
Members JesperT Posted January 29, 2011 Author Members Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks for the link, Ed, I'll check it out. Great stuff you wrote, Mike, I'm not done yet, but consider my mind boggled already!
Members polishpaul Posted January 29, 2011 Members Posted January 29, 2011 "boggled mindedness".........when in this state, you know you're on to something !I get plenty boggled here myself!
Members JonnyPac Posted February 1, 2011 Members Posted February 1, 2011 Hi, I'm a jazz dude, as it were. However, my ideas are a little different than most theorist jazz or otherwise. I dig chord-scale theory, and I have brewed up some changes that make analysis and improv easier in real-time. See if you dig my style... Dealing Major/Minor Key Confusion When playing in a minor key in classical theory, the Roman numeral system gets reassigned so that the vi chord becomes the
Members ednakayama Posted February 1, 2011 Members Posted February 1, 2011 In the key of C, E7 is V7/VI to most jazz players, and understanding secondary dominants as "V's of" clarifies their dominant functions.
Members JonnyPac Posted February 1, 2011 Members Posted February 1, 2011 Trust me, I am well aware of that. All I am saying is that playing in my real-time chord-scale style III7 means Phrygian Dominant; the V mode of HM. I like to see each chord-scale in a parent-scale/key picture. It is very unconventional, but it works if you try it and get used to it. The function is V7, but the scale is nowhere near a Mixolydian or sub variant, so then we have to say V7 of minor; more bits of info. PS Nice chord site!
Members ednakayama Posted February 1, 2011 Members Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks, man. I like to see it both ways, from the POV of the chord of the moment, and within the general context of the parent key. I know burning players who think about it completely differently, but in the end I tend to think that once a certain level of proficiency is reached, the differences become superficial and semantic. Still, the psychological implications of the many processes by which we learn this stuff are pretty fascinating.
Members bigboy78 Posted February 1, 2011 Members Posted February 1, 2011 All this Phrygian that, 5th Mode of oo-la-la that gets a bit complex doesn't it. E7 has a G#. Thats all I need to know really, isn't it? Or am I missing something?
Members JonnyPac Posted February 1, 2011 Members Posted February 1, 2011 You got it, boss. You just have think like that in all 12 keys while soloing at a clip.
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