Members GreenAsJade Posted February 17, 2011 Members Posted February 17, 2011 So, in "today's" transcription I have this backing riff thats going (on bass and fat chords) solid quavers: D E E D E E E E A A A A G G E E (or similar) All _major_ chords. This is a bit wierd for a start ... if it's in E major, then there shouldn't be a G chord (it should be G sharp) and if it's in E minor, then it should be ... Eminor chord? And if it's in D, it should be E minor chord (it doesn't sound remotely like it's in D). Then I was starting to noodle over it, and finding the E minor fits really well, even though all those major chords are there. Then I discovered, that the C note, though, is just always awful, and so is C# almost always as awful.... and so the F# isn't much good. ... but G and G# are interchangeably good (though G# better over E and G over G) So I have this scale in E that is 1 (2) b3 3 4 5 b7 Is there any "theory" that this fits with? GaJ
Members Li Shenron Posted February 17, 2011 Members Posted February 17, 2011 Isn't that an alternation between A major (D and E)and D major (G and A)? A B C# D E F# G# A D E F# G A B C# D Clearly that's a modulation, but since the two major scales A and D are only one fifth apart (in the circle of fifths), they only have 1 different note (G# vs G) so the modulation doesn't sound particularly blunt. C doesn't belong to either scale, that's why it doesn't sound good. C# actually belong to both scales but perhaps being the major 7th of D major then may be a weak note to linger on for too long? --------- Alternatively, you might also be tempted at seeing this as an alternation between A Ionian and A Mixolydian, the first using the major 7th (G#) and the second the minor 7th (G). This alternative view could make it a breeze for you to improvise on the guitar, if you are familiar with 3-notes-per-string mode boxes. --------- Just one simple trick when trying to attribute a key/scale/mode to a series of chords. If you see two major chords one whole step apart (D and E, but also G and A), they can only be the IV and V grade of the same major key, at least if you restrict yourself to natural scales. Seeing your progression above I immediately thought it could be seen as a modulation between two major scales because of that. This I write, assuming you're trying to kind-of "minimize" the number of needed keys/scales (2 in this case, unless you want to go wacky and pretend to use an 8-notes scale containing both the minor and major 7th). But beyond that of course you always have the option of playing everything "modal", and that means you'll have multiple possible scales for EACH of those four chords in your progression, if you want to.
Members Li Shenron Posted February 17, 2011 Members Posted February 17, 2011 PS Are you really sure about E minor sounding good? Because that has C as minor 6th, which is quite the most characterizing note in a natural minor scale / Aeolian mode, and C doesn't fit with our progression as you said so yourself...
Members GreenAsJade Posted February 17, 2011 Author Members Posted February 17, 2011 RIght ... E minor sounds good ... _except_ for the C At first I thought it was going to be some sort of other mode of E (than Aeolian), but then it got more complicated when G and G# both work all the time. I never thought to think of it as two keys But the funny thing is the one blended "scale" works over both "keys" of the "modulating riff".... its not like one scale for one part and the other for the other... GaJ PS - thanks! FWIW. the song I started transcribing is Vertigo by U2. I know that I've dumbed the riff slightly ... I did that while trying to figure out what was really going on, and if you play it in the simpler way (without the passing note) it still sounds good
Members JonR Posted February 17, 2011 Members Posted February 17, 2011 So I have this scale in E that is1 (2) 3 b4 4 5 7 Is there any "theory" that this fits with?GaJAssuming your "3" means b3, and your "b4" means M3 (and your "7" means "b7"), then the answer is simple: "blues"! E (F#) G G# A B D is common material in blues. You could add the C# to that. You say it sounds "awful" - but it shouldn't do on the A chord at least! (Likewise the F# ought to sound just fine on the D chord.) In total, then, you'd have E F# G G# A B C# D. This can be seen as a combination of E major pent (E F# G# B C#) and E minor pent (E G A B D) - or as a mixture of E dorian and E mixolydian.Chuck Berry used this scale (in key of Bb) on the Johnny B Goode intro, and many others, so it's in the DNA of rock music. Jazz musicians call it "bebop dorian" (dorian mode with a passing major 3), but in rock/blues it's better seen as mixolydian with a passing b3, because it gets used on major chords (in major keys). You can see that the scale contains all the notes in all your chords:E = E G# BD = D F# AA = A C# EG = G B DBut of course you don't have to use the whole scale on every chord! You start from the chord tones of whatever chord you have, and then add any passing notes that sound OK.
Members GreenAsJade Posted February 17, 2011 Author Members Posted February 17, 2011 Assuming your "3" means b3, and your "b4" means M3 (and your "7" means "b7") LOL I screwed that up royally (I went and edited my post to describe what I was doing correctly, thanks!)
Members gennation Posted February 17, 2011 Members Posted February 17, 2011 Common parallel Major and Minor progression. This lesson will help you with progressions like that through a systematic approach using a really basic concept. While it does covers things more in depth it stress the basic concept... http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/using-the-chords-to-help-you-find-a-scale-to-use-t20.html It covers a number of straight up RnR or Folk progressions like that too, just to firm up the approach for you. It shows you how to cover the notes out of scale too.
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