Members SwingingAx Posted March 15, 2011 Members Posted March 15, 2011 I'm reading a music theory book, and it has the following; " The modes are often subdivided into major and minor-related scales according to their interval pattern. Those modes with a major third between the tonic and the third note belong to the major-related modes: * Ionian 9major)* Lydian* Mixolydian Those modes with a minor third belong to the minor-related modes: * Dorian* Phrygian* Aeolian (natural minor) The Locrian mode is an exception, it belongs to neither the major or the minor-related modes. " ================================================================ Unfortunately, it stops there and offers NO explanation for WHY a Locrian mode isn'tconsidered either major or minor-related mode. A few pages, before the above, it lists the modes as follows; Ionic = 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 Dorian = 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7-8 Phrygian = 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-8 Lydian = 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7-8 Mixolydian = 1-2-3-4-5-6-b7-8 Aeolian = 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-8 Locrian = 1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7-8 Now, the Locrian mode HAS a minor third from the tonic, so why isn't it considered a minor-related mode? (my guess would be it's a scale that doesn't have a definite tonic)
Members JonnyPac Posted March 15, 2011 Members Posted March 15, 2011 Locrian is a chord-scale in "jazz theory" that fits half-diminished chords aka "minor 7th b5" chords (m7b5). It is more minor than major, but it is considered "unstable" without a perfect 5th. You can put it in the minor category if you like. It usually used in functional harmony as a pre-dominant chord. Bm7b5 E7 Am and so on. Dig?
Members ednakayama Posted March 15, 2011 Members Posted March 15, 2011 Minor doesn't go far enough for Locrian. It is far more sinister. I'm pretty sure the book just doesn't want you playing it because it can wake the dead.
Members JonR Posted March 16, 2011 Members Posted March 16, 2011 I'm reading a music theory book, and it has the following;" The modes are often subdivided into major and minor-related scales according to their interval pattern.Those modes with a major third between the tonic and the third note belong to the major-related modes:* Ionian 9major)* Lydian* MixolydianThose modes with a minor third belong to the minor-related modes:* Dorian* Phrygian* Aeolian (natural minor)The Locrian mode is an exception, it belongs to neither the major or the minor-related modes. "================================================================Unfortunately, it stops there and offers NO explanation for WHY a Locrian mode isn'tconsidered either major or minor-related mode.A few pages, before the above, it lists the modes as follows;Ionic = 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8Dorian = 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7-8Phrygian = 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-8Lydian = 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7-8Mixolydian = 1-2-3-4-5-6-b7-8Aeolian = 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-8Locrian = 1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7-8Now, the Locrian mode HAS a minor third from the tonic, so why isn't it considered a minor-related mode? (my guess would be it's a scale that doesn't have a definite tonic)The diminished 5th has more impact on the sound of it than the minor 3rd. You could therefore call it a "diminished mode", or more precisely a "half-diminished mode". The term "half-diminished" comes from the chord built from this scale, which has a diminished 5th and minor 7th (b7). That's in comparison with the chord built from the 7th step of harmonic minor (sometimes known as "ultralocrian"), which has two diminished intervals, a b5 and bb7.Eg, B-D-F-A (from B locrian, vii of C major) = Bm7b5, or B half-diminished.B-D-F-Ab (from vii mode of C harmonic minor) = Bdim7. Both chords have the B-F diminished 5th, but only Bdim7 has the "diminished 7th" interval B-Ab.
Members Sean0913 Posted March 16, 2011 Members Posted March 16, 2011 It sounds like they are trying to categorize this according to the triad approach to being either Major or Minor. I don't teach it this way, as it leaves this "problem" with an odd chord out. I base my classification based around the m3 interval. The only place I draw a distinction is in the Locrian's function in music. I'd argue that the Locrian is a "minor" classification mode specifically because of the inclusion of the b3, the only note that determines a chord's minor/major quality. The use of the Locrian is, as people have already said, more common in jazz realms. So, on the triad level the chord is a diminished, and not major or minor, because there is no perfect 5th. If you were going to have one or the other, Locrian belongs with the minor family. Best, Sean
Members sgt mukuzi Posted March 16, 2011 Members Posted March 16, 2011 calling the Locrian "mode" diminished fits in with the logic used to justify the Ionian as the home or tonic "scale"
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