Major Chord Ballad BT Jam!

[NorthernPaul]

I quite liked your use of space

 

 

That was just because I'm not quick enough to get round the fretboard yet:lol:

 

Seriously though, thanks for the comment. I do try and play more with 'feeling', I tend to view speed as a by product of becoming a better player. Some days I can hear more in my head but my fingers just can't match up with my brain:facepalm:

 

It'll all come together with practice though, and getting there is a buzz so all is good:)

[jonfinn]

Alright so I found a bit of time to join in on the fun. It ain't perfect but it's all I got time for! Here's the link: http://www.box.net/shared/z17ojvjljgpa8ccudyh3

 

 

Right off I thought, "Wooo-hooo!! Cool tone!" Nice Job Jeremy! I don't always do well with "shoot from the hip" approaches, but it seems like you do. That's why I like doing these because it's a great opportunity to practice that. You can tell that you're listening to everything you play and not letting your fingers "take over".

 

Imagine how cool that would get if you lived with it for a bit, then did another take? Yikes!!!!

[JonR]

Alright so I found a bit of time to join in on the fun. It ain't perfect but it's all I got time for! Here's the link: http://www.box.net/shared/z17ojvjljgpa8ccudyh3

Mmm.
All I'll say for now is - audacious use of the major 7th on the E chord! (instead of the diatonic b7) But oddly it works.
At least it made me sit up and say "hey what was that? Surely not the major 7th..." Yep. (I guess it works because the key is actually ambiguous at that point.)

Very nice overall. Even the widdly widdly sections are eminently tasteful, resolved nicely.

I hope you won't be tempted to find some more time to "improve" on it... The competition round here is already a bit tough.

[jeremy_green]

Thanks guys! Nice praise coming from this crowd.

 

JonFinn - I LOVE lettin er go and not writing... just wander and as you say let the ears try to lead me. Like you, what I get from these is practice and committing without over-thinking and finishing it in short time. I don't have much spare these days and I always want to get better ... obviously my goal is to be a one-take guy... that would be the penultimate goal for me... hear it and play without patterns. So yes, I do think I could do a better take if i kept at it... but that would remove some of the spontaneity I am working to foster.

 

JonR - Thanks! and HA! Yes I am somewhat of a 7th slut! One of my favourite sounds is tugging at the ear on the 7th - kind of a Jeff Beck thing. I love that dominant to major 7th kind of switch-a-roo (even more than messing with the 3rd). As you said sometimes you can really get away with it when the progression is slow with holes like this one.

[Tommy Gun]

Damn..you guys are good.

 

Here is my take

http://www.box.net/shared/mn7hotjx5gybf3yibdfv

[polishpaul]

They are indeed, Tommy.

 

I've got mine together at last, minus the end bit. It took me long enough deciding what to play in this part .

 

I recorded it with a mike between my guitar amp and the sound system playing the backing, so the quality is nothing special. But I had nothing to hide behind in the way of effects. I did shave a few milliseconds from it at the point where a mosquito landed on my hand and made me jump.

 

My thanks once again for everyone's input. This is the first time I've done anything like this on electric............this thread has resulted in a big push forward for me.

 

 

Edit: I tell a lie.....there's a bit of reverb (just noticed on the amp).

[jeremy_green]

 

Damn..you guys are good. Here is my take http://www.box.net/shared/mn7hotjx5gybf3yibdfv

 

 

Tommy, Very cool. Lots of good lines there.

To try to be helpful I would say I would like you to let some notes hang more. You had some cool lines... then seemed to get nervous and rush into the next idea. I know it feels odd to let it sit... but work at it. The key is to recognize a nice sound as you are playing it - then bathe in it for a bit. Hendrix was great at this. He would get a note or a noise going and milk it. It's tough to do, but it is where the good stuff lies.

[jeremy_green]

They are indeed, Tommy. I've got mine together at last, minus the end bit. It took me long enough deciding what to play in this part . I recorded it with a mike between my guitar amp and the sound system playing the backing, so the quality is nothing special. But I had nothing to hide behind in the way of effects. I did shave a few milliseconds from it at the point where a mosquito landed on my hand and made me jump. My thanks once again for everyone's input. This is the first time I've done anything like this on electric............this thread has resulted in a big push forward for me. Edit: I tell a lie.....there's a bit of reverb (just noticed on the amp).

 

Paul, I loved this effort. Nice job. You know what needs work clam wise so i won't touch on that. I want to talk about what i REALLY like in this take. Ideas. Melodic thoughts. This had a real organic melodic thing going on. I sense if you keep working on it and technique simultaneously. There may be a really good melodic player inside you. You kept your thought going even when it tripped up. This is hard to do. Most people choke up at those points and it kills the thought. You didn't. Nice job.

[JonR]

They are indeed, Tommy. I've got mine together at last, minus the end bit. It took me long enough deciding what to play in this part . I recorded it with a mike between my guitar amp and the sound system playing the backing, so the quality is nothing special. But I had nothing to hide behind in the way of effects. I did shave a few milliseconds from it at the point where a mosquito landed on my hand and made me jump. My thanks once again for everyone's input. This is the first time I've done anything like this on electric............this thread has resulted in a big push forward for me. Edit: I tell a lie.....there's a bit of reverb (just noticed on the amp).

I agree with jeremy, there's a beautiful melodic instinct at work there. As you probably know, there's problems on the nondiatonic chords (which I think present problems for all of us ); not wrong notes exactly, but it doesn't flow as well as on the A and E (where it sounds like you learned a lot from Otis;)). But IMO your approach is exactly right, and there's an appropriate tender feel too.
IOW, what you may lack in technique (so far), you make up for in warmth of expression; and that's what counts.

[polishpaul]

Your kind words will be a source of encouragement to me from this point on.........thank you for them.

 

 

Reading them this evening has been a great end to a fascinating day in my pursuit of musicality with the guitar. It was all starting to look like some kind of impossible dream, but one that I enjoyed, nevertheless. There's still a long way to go, but I feel I've metaphored my way over a few hurdles and past one or two milestones today.

 

Here's some background to this pleasant day, and a tip or two for anyone that might be interested. Well, a few words on what I think I've been doing right recently (for a change!).

 

Almost all my playing time has been invested in fingerpicking on my classical - I might actually say all my time, considering the very few number of times I've taken the electric out of the case.

Recently I've been experiencing some welcome leaps forward on classical, with regard to dexterity, fretboard reading and the ability to use theory on-the-fly to guide me as I improvise. But...........you know..........it still wasn't what I considered to be musicianship. Too easy, wandering about the neck at will, making stuff up. Undisciplined.

 

Now, the challenge of this thread has changed everything. Northern Paul commented along similar lines - doing this is so much better than all the other routines available to the self-taught student......books, exercises, theory, scales and so on, important though they are. Suddenly, you're in the thick of it, musically. The parameters are fixed. You have to work within them.

 

Scary, in a way. Or at least........new!

 

So I started going over the chords on classical, but quickly decided I wasn't going to be able to play what was developing in my head on that. So........freaky freaky, what the hell am I doing?.......I changed to electric. This is still settling down after a major overhaul (my zero fret is in place and I did some work on the bridge to stop the saddle grubscrews digging into the plate). It needs new strings because the ones you heard have been on and off a dozen times and stretched mercilessly.

 

Okay then......what's this all about? Slightly nervous at the prospects, I fought against pressing down too hard, since the intonation is set for the lightest of touches. Well, I kept pressing down too hard and thought "well, what's a few cents between forgiving gentlefolk?" and carried on, fingerpicking the notes.

 

I remembered reading somewhere about playing off the third, so I started on C#, third string, sixth fret. Oh! Notes sustain on this guitar. So I sustained away on the C#. Cool. What next? The fifth sprang to mind (following the "chord tones" tips earlier in this thread), so I slid up three frets to the E. Then back to C#, giving it the slightest hint of a bend....just a waver, a single vibrato (more pronounced at 1m 3secs, I noticed on listening a few times. I think I was a bit stressed about not overdoing it, in the earlier part). This became the centre of my attention, and I really focussed on it. It quickly became apparent how important it was to hold on to the picked C# for a precise amount of time before instigating the little bend. And a length of time equally precise had to pass before letting it back down. Just a gentle lilt, but I really dug the effect.

 

This was THE moment of enlightenment for me, and the main point I'd like to make for other students here. It had to be an EXACT manoeuvre..........anything else sucked, big time. From this point on, I was totally focussed on everything I was doing. I had my motif, it seemed, and this gave me a reference point. Just a gentle lilt on a note, but I really dug the effect...........and..........."Aha! So this is how it's done!! How simple!".

 

Timing!

 

Lilt on, to the end............I had a quest!

 

 

So that took care of the A major intro bar.............now to land on a chord tone of the E major. I thought I should perhaps play a root note whilst still on the A major, to lead nicely up to the fifth of E major, the B. But I didn't like the possibilities I explored, so I went from the C# down to the B. Then I thought I should repeat my little motif in a slightly different form, so I went up to D at the seventh fret of the same string, then down to the C#, without a bend, through the B to A, then G#, E on the fourth string and a long slide up to A at the seventh fret.

 

That was it. The rest appeared from a continued attention to detail. Not so much regarding the choice of notes, but what to do with them.....and when! All very simple stuff, theorywise.

 

What I've been to outline above is largely the result of my coming into Lesson Loft on a regular basis for a long time, and reading everything that everyone writes. The most important information in this forum is to listen to what you are playing, and at last I've started doing that. I wasn't keen to do it in the past because nothing I played sounded worth listening to, but that was my mistake.

 

It doesn't matter if your playing is hideous - listen to it anyway. Filter out the good bits. Figure out what's making it sound so bad. Then concentrate on the good bits, and build from there.

 

I was pointed towards a Hal Galper video from Lesson Loft. In it, Hal said something along the lines of first hearing your music as "do wappa, dee wappa, boody boody dat dat", and then putting some notes to it. This video really stuck in my mind, and I seem to be doing this these days.

 

I have a debt of gratitude to all here who take the time to come in and help others along, and they are many. Busy people, with jobs, families and sometimes band commitments as well. More than that, even...... they are kind enough to tolerate my quirks and misdemeanours!

 

 

Thanks again! You are all very much appreciated!

[polishpaul]

.....and to all those who have submitted their takes here........

 

Well, I really don't feel qualified enough to have a valid opinion, beyond saying I've enjoyed every one of them. Most educational it is, being able to listen to a range of takes on a single theme.

[jonfinn]

 

.....and to all those who have submitted their takes here........ Well, I really don't feel qualified enough to have a valid opinion, beyond saying I've enjoyed every one of them. Most educational it is, being able to listen to a range of takes on a single theme.

 

Hi Paul, Last time I checked, there's no qualification test to post here. I've been doing it as a way of keeping my own perfectionism at bay.

 

If you're afraid of the feedback, my guess is that if you approach it like, "I'm gonna SHRED all you LOSERS because I am MASTER of the UNIVERSE (insert trailing echo here)!", then you might get a few chides.

 

People here are nice to each other because we're all just trying to get better at what we do. Many hands = short work.

[JonR]

.....and to all those who have submitted their takes here........ Well, I really don't feel qualified enough to have a valid opinion, beyond saying I've enjoyed every one of them.

Your opinion is as valid and welcome as anyone's. I'm sure we all want to play something that people enjoy. You don't have to be "qualified" to have an opinion.
(Of course, you'd have to be qualified to some degree to make any kind of technical or theoretical analysis, but that's not the same thing at all.

[polishpaul]

Your opinion is as valid and welcome as anyone's. I'm sure we all want to play something that people enjoy. You don't have to be "qualified" to have an opinion. (Of course, you'd have to be qualified to some degree to make any kind of technical or theoretical analysis , but that's not the same thing at all.

 

 

That's what I meant........my inability at the moment to praise, for example, a run of parallel wotsits and the like........"nice notes" would be my limit .

[polishpaul]

If you're afraid of the feedback, my guess is that if you approach it like, "I'm gonna SHRED all you LOSERS because I am MASTER of the UNIVERSE (insert trailing echo here)!", then you might get a few chides.

 

 

Rightly so!

 

I'm fortunate not to have any ego issues with guitar. I do what I do with it........I don't try to make any "statements". I have an almost childish fascination with it:

 

"Wheee, I can make pretty noises".

 

I am REALLY looking forward to continuing improvement.............and one day I shall rise up to the top of the monolithic pedestal, and with chest bared and uncontrollable dribble dripping from my chin, I shall make the people of the world tremble as they kneel in homage.

 

And that's just my poetry! Then I'll hit 'em with Smoke on the Water!

 

 

[JonR]

That's what I meant........my inability at the moment to praise, for example, a run of parallel wotsits and the like........"nice notes" would be my limit .

Sure, but "nice notes" is all I'm aiming for. It's of no importance if I play a mixophrygian admonished scale with a demented 17th or whatever, if it doesn't sound "nice" at the end of it.
Being able to identify the theoretical terms for what's going on is useful if you're a musician - it's a sign that (a) your ear is good, and (b) you know your jargon - but it has nothing to do with music appreciation. It's not praising the musician to identify the scales he's using (it's demonstrating your own skill and knowledge) - although it would be praise to say that he handled them well.
But still, "nice notes" is praise beyond that. It means all the damn theory has worked out in the end.

It's true that in these exercises I'm aware I'm performing for a (small) bunch of fellow musicians, so I'm concerned to show off my skills and knowledge - such as they are - to some extent. I'm on my best behaviour. But my main aim is to produce something entertaining that could be appreciated by non-musicians equally. (Oh, and to enjoy myself too of course .)

IOW, you can be modest about the extent of your musical knowledge or skill - and the limits of what you can currently say about the content of a piece of music. But no need to be modest about your ability to hear nice sounds.

[mosiddiqi]

They are indeed, Tommy. I've got mine together at last, minus the end bit. It took me long enough deciding what to play in this part . I recorded it with a mike between my guitar amp and the sound system playing the backing, so the quality is nothing special. But I had nothing to hide behind in the way of effects. I did shave a few milliseconds from it at the point where a mosquito landed on my hand and made me jump. My thanks once again for everyone's input. This is the first time I've done anything like this on electric............this thread has resulted in a big push forward for me. Edit: I tell a lie.....there's a bit of reverb (just noticed on the amp).

 

I thoroughly enjoyed that Paul!..soulful and tender with a very natural melodic feel. Excellent!. You already know about the bits that need work

[NorthernPaul]

 

Now, the challenge of this thread has changed everything. Northern Paul commented along similar lines - doing this is so much better than all the other routines available to the self-taught student......books, exercises, theory, scales and so on, important though they are. Suddenly, you're in the thick of it, musically. The parameters are fixed. You have to work within them.

 

 

First of all I'd like to say well done to Paul and Tommy for two nice attempts. I still find it surprising the different ideas people have for the same chord progression. It's well cool!!

 

@PolishPaul: I totally agree with what you said above, suddenly I was out of my pentatonic comfort zone, and I had to actually think about what I was going to play, and also at what point I wanted to hit a certain note. I also feel a certain sense of pride and achievement, because I struggled with this at the start but I got there in the end.

 

I would certainly recommend it as an educational tool, and also just because it's bloody fun!!

[polishpaul]

Thanks, Mo! Not just for the compliment, which is of course appreciated, but also for getting this thread going.

 

 

@ Northern Paul...........

 

 

I got such a buzz from doing this, too. Which was especially good after the sequence of steps necessary to do it......oh, no, I'm switching on the computer............aaagh! I'm turning the amp on......God help me, I'm plugging in the guitar.............the mike cable is fighting back - it's an omen!............damn! It's all working.................I'm hitting a note.............HEEEELLLLLP!!!

 

As I wrote earlier here by way of background to this angstfest, my getting totally sucked in to the little bend on C# .................well, I've not been the same since. The sky is bluer, the clouds fluffier and I wouldn't give a hoot if everyone in the forum suddenly started posting obnoxious attacks on everyone else .

 

I've read about timing, I've seen videos about timing, and I'd thought about timing. I'd got it into my head that it's all about the rhythm and a metronome. But it is more than that. Much more, I've discovered. It's about.............

 

Hard to say. It's a whim, an idea, a fleeting emotion, a feeling - all rolled into one brief moment. It's infinitely malleable, within a kind of infinity crammed into a millisecond. It's fascinating, alluring, sumptuous and sexy.

 

I feel that I've started to understand a lot more about music, all from a little bend on a note! I've approached the guitar in a very haphazard manner, really. On the one hand, I enjoy theory and would be happy to have a grasp of it even if I never played music. On the other hand I really want to play, but have no interest at all in learning how to play other people's songs (a highly-recommended way of learning!). So I'm aiming for blues/jazz, which gives me scope for self-expression.

 

Timing, then. I remember Jon Finn's post here, in which he wrote that it's THE most important aspect of playing. I thought I understood when I read his post, but I didn't. I had never FELT it, the way I felt my little note bend with all my being. Once timing has been truly and totally felt, there's no going back. Like your memories - no one can take them away from you. It's forever.

 

At the moment I am re-assessing my approach to the guitar. Things have to change now. Nothing to do with discipline or different exercises etc. In the past I'd always had the mindset of someone trying to play music. I can now accept that I CAN play music................I just need to get better at it.

 

 

Simples !

 

 

Northern Paul..............your enthusiasm for and delight in playing guitar shines from your posts. You are well on your way now, that's clear. You're gonna make it, and so am I.

 

 

Bloody good fun - how true!

[Brindleleaf]

Hiya everyone...

 

Just wanted to say 'Hats off' to everyone involved in this thread.....

 

It's really interesting (even for those of us who have just trudged over from Acoustic guitar...lol!), and SUCH a good idea to actually 'Walk the Walk' in a positive atmosphere like you have created.

 

Always refreshing to work on skills (rather than over-focusing on knowledge)....such a feeling of freedom...

 

Bravo..!

 

(Damn....I may have to try to convince the GF that I need an electric guitar too...... )

[polishpaul]

Hi Brindleleaf!

 

Checkout the "Minor Funky/Jazzy BT" thread a little lower down the board at the moment. JonR did his take on nylon.

 

And yeah......a very good thread indeed. You've summed it up very well.

[BydoEmpire]

.....and to all those who have submitted their takes here........ Well, I really don't feel qualified enough to have a valid opinion, beyond saying I've enjoyed every one of them. Most educational it is, being able to listen to a range of takes on a single theme.

I'm not qualified to give advice to anyone, but that hasn't stopped me. Seriously, though, the constructive criticism is one of the main draws to these jams. Usually it's things I already knew were 'bad' with my takes, but occasionally people mention problems I didn't really hear before and that's pure gold. I don't think I've ever seen someone post "wow, that sucks." The criticism - when it's given at all - is always constructive if you choose to accept it.

[Warren G]

Hi All, new guy to the forum checking in here. Some mighy impressive playing by the ppl on this thread...I love the variety in each persons take.... So, Ive been messing around with this track the last couple of nights, to be honest, this track has been stuck in my head for a few days now! Below is my attempt/take on the track...there's some parts I prob could have touched up but oh well...this is a learning experience for me. Id like to have used a little more distortion but I've got a wife and 2 small children sleeping upstairs....so had to keep it mostly clean....thanks

http://soundcloud.com/warren-gilmour/majorballad

[polishpaul]

Welcome Warren!

 

And thanks for diving in with your take. The more the merrier!

 

On my way to a listen now..............

[polishpaul]

Cool!

 

What you began at 48s really caught my attention, but the way you developed it around 51s surprised me. I found myself anticipating something completely different.....more notes in there, in an upward direction. I feel that would have provided a nice lift at that point.

 

Thanks for joining in!