Members NorthernPaul Posted September 30, 2011 Members Posted September 30, 2011 So I'm working through my 'Blues Rhythms You Can' Use book, and one of the tunes uses chord voicings of: Gm6878 Which to me is a D#Maj7 chord. This caused me a lot of confusion, and I actually thought the book had a mistake. I looked it up on a 'what chord is this' style website, and true enough it's Gm until you add the D# root which would be fret 6 on the A string. This has blown my mind. Does this mean that without the D# root on the A string, it's the same chord and you could call it by both names? And if I played the 5th string, would it then also be called D#/Gm? You think you're ticking along nicely with guitar, then something like this just blows you away! It's great:thu: Thanks for reading, Paul
Members jeremy_green Posted September 30, 2011 Members Posted September 30, 2011 yup! There are many chord relations.Another very cool one. Take a diminished chord and lower any note of the chord by a semitone. That results in a dom7 chord.. What does this mean? Well it means that the resulting 4 dominant chords and the diminished itself are closely related. They share 3 notes... The rabbit hole is truly deep!
Members NorthernPaul Posted September 30, 2011 Author Members Posted September 30, 2011 Thanks Jeremy, Yes, it's completely mind boggling! I love new chords and how tiny changes can give you something completely different, though it's not easy to digest at first and often leaves me with the old 'my brain is full' feeling;) I'll have a look into that diminished chord thing too, though I don't think I've used them in anything I've studied so far. Paul
Members gennation Posted September 30, 2011 Members Posted September 30, 2011 Gm6878l If that's on the four high strings, the chord is actually a Gm7. One thing to note is this also shows you how you can also view Gm7 as Bb6...the Relative Minor/Major comes into view here. Gm7 has G Bb D F (R, b3, 5, b7 respectively). Your chord from low to high has, Bb D F Bb (b3 5 b7 b3 respectively)...everything but the Root. And Bb6 has Bb D F G (R M3 5 6 respectively).
Members NorthernPaul Posted September 30, 2011 Author Members Posted September 30, 2011 Thanks Gennation, Thats even more food for thought. Possibly a stupid question, but does that mean the minor 7th chord also has a relative major which is a 6th chord? I've only thought of the relative as C shares the same notes as Am before, and I'd never even thought about expanding that further. Paul
Members jonfinn Posted October 1, 2011 Members Posted October 1, 2011 If that's on the four high strings, the chord is actually a Gm7.One thing to note is this also shows you how you can also view Gm7 as Bb6...the Relative Minor/Major comes into view here.Gm7 has G Bb D F (R, b3, 5, b7 respectively). Your chord from low to high has, Bb D F Bb (b3 5 b7 b3 respectively)...everything but the Root. And Bb6 has Bb D F G (R M3 5 6 respectively). Mike you're awesome! But I gotta be "that guy." If you're at all like me, you might have quickly scanned the post then responded (i.e. an innocent mis-read). If those notes are the top strings, wouldn't it be (bottom to top): Bb, D, G, Bb? If that's true, you'd need to add F to make it Gm7. Right?
Members jonfinn Posted October 1, 2011 Members Posted October 1, 2011 So I'm working through my 'Blues Rhythms You Can' Use book, and one of the tunes uses chord voicings of:Gm6878Which to me is a D#Maj7 chord. This caused me a lot of confusion, and I actually thought the book had a mistake. I looked it up on a 'what chord is this' style website, and true enough it's Gm until you add the D# root which would be fret 6 on the A string. This has blown my mind.Does this mean that without the D# root on the A string, it's the same chord and you could call it by both names? And if I played the 5th string, would it then also be called D#/Gm?You think you're ticking along nicely with guitar, then something like this just blows you away! It's great:thu:Thanks for reading,Paul It's quite a can of worms! It gets much worse! Did you know that if you take any dim7 voicing, and lower any note within the chord by a half-step (one fret), it instantly transforms in to a dom7 chord. Not only that, but the note you lower becomes the root of the dom 7th chord. ex: if you start with C#dim7: -x--5--3--5--4--x- you get C7: -x--5--3--5--3--x- F#7: -x--5--3--4--4--x- A7: -x--5--2--5--4--x- and Eb7: -x--4--3--5--4--x- Cool eh?
Members JonR Posted October 1, 2011 Members Posted October 1, 2011 Thanks Gennation,Thats even more food for thought. Possibly a stupid question, but does that mean the minor 7th chord also has a relative major which is a 6th chord?Precisely. Am7 is the same notes as C6. The only difference is which note is in the bass.This is because the chord contains two perfect 5ths: A-E and C-G. The bottom note of a perfect 5th has a strong root identity, which is not a problem when a chord only has one perfect 5th, as most do. Where two 5ths compete, then the lower one will dominate - or rather whichever one has the lower root, because of course the 5ths can overlap, or one might be a 12th (octave + 5th). The shape you posted is in fact a Gm triad - not quite Gm7 as mike said, because there is no F, just two Bbs, a G and a D. The doubling up of the Bb - and the fact that one of them is on the bottom - might make it sound like Bb6, but technically it's just Gm. Add an F somewhere and you will get more ambiguity, as in: 6 Bb6 F7 D5 Gxx or 3 G3 D3 Bb3 Fxx Either of those could be called Gm7 or Bb6. Personally I'd think of the top one as Gm7 and bottom one as Bb6 - because G is on the bottom of the first one, and at the top of the second. (BTW, perfect 4ths are inverted 5ths, so the root of a 4th is its top note. 4ths are slightly weaker, tonally, than 5ths; but Bb rules the lower one, because both the relevant intervals, F-Bb and D-G are 4ths.)But then whichever bass note a bassist plays is going to determine the issue either way, regardless of your voicing! That's because either a G or Bb bass note will form a strong perfect 5th with either D or F in the chord. Which comes back to your original question: a Gm triad with an Eb bass becomes an Ebmaj7 chord (don't call it D#maj7, that's a highly unlikely enharmonic) - because the Eb forms a strong 5th with the Bb in the chord, against which the G-D 5th is weaker. The other thing that weakens the G root is the role of Eb relative to a hypothetical G root. Whichever way up an Eb-G interval is (major 3rd or minor 6th), Eb is the acoustic root. So the G ends up supporting the Eb as root, relinquishing its own claim. So a jazz musician might well see your shape as an option for a rootless Ebmaj7 - rootless voicings being common in jazz. But it isn't actually Ebmaj7 until it gets an Eb bass note, either from you or the bass player.
Members NorthernPaul Posted October 1, 2011 Author Members Posted October 1, 2011 Thanks very much for the replies. Thats what I like about this forum, you ask a question and end up learning so much more than what you asked! The scary thing, is that these days I'm beginning to understand the answers:lol: JonR are you the same person as JonPR on an acoustic guitar forum I recently discovered? Your posting styles and in depth replies are very similar, so if it's not you then you may have a twin:lol: Paul
Members JonR Posted October 1, 2011 Members Posted October 1, 2011 Thanks very much for the replies. Thats what I like about this forum, you ask a question and end up learning so much more than what you asked! The scary thing, is that these days I'm beginning to understand the answers:lol: JonR are you the same person as JonPR on an acoustic guitar forum I recently discovered? Your posting styles and in depth replies are very similar, so if it's not you then you may have a twin:lol: Paul That's me. They wouldn't let me have JonR there - although I haven't seen another JonR (unless maybe that was me registering years ago and I forgot about it...).
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