Jump to content
HAPPY NEW YEAR, TO ALL OUR HARMONY CENTRAL FORUMITES AND GUESTS!! ×

Questions about jazz


Recommended Posts

  • Members
Posted

Geez, I spent like an hour writing my first post with all my questions a few days ago but it didn't go through, I guess because I'm new to the forum. I PMd Jed and Poparad but haven't heard anything. God not like it was a masterpiece but it's freakin annoying to try to re-write everything. Well anyway here

 

| C C C C | Em Em Em Em | F F F F | C C C C | F F F F | C C Am Am | Dm Dm G G | C

 

This is Over the Rainbow, I'd like to learn how to jazz up the chords. Sometimes I see a Bb7 on the 2nd half of the 5th measure but I don't understand the theory behind it. It's not a tritone sub or a secondary dominant. I know I can add secondary dominants to the progression but I'm interested in subs like that Bb7.

  • Members
Posted

Ok sorry for the clutter, just tried to post some stuff in small fragments but it's still not going through. I'm going to shut up now until a mod helps me out. Sorry for cluttering the forum. I'm not a spammer, just a clueless newbie.

  • Members
Posted

Geez, I spent like an hour writing my first post with all my questions a few days ago but it didn't go through, I guess because I'm new to the forum. I PMd Jed and Poparad but haven't heard anything. God not like it was a masterpiece but it's freakin annoying to try to re-write everything. Well anyway here


| C C C C | Em Em Em Em | F F F F | C C C C | F F F F | C C Am Am | Dm Dm G G | C


This is Over the Rainbow, I'd like to learn how to jazz up the chords. Sometimes I see a Bb7 on the 2nd half of the 5th measure but I don't understand the theory behind it. It's not a tritone sub or a secondary dominant. I know I can add secondary dominants to the progression but I'm interested in subs like that Bb7.

That Bb7 is a sub for Fm - which should be the usual chord in the last half of that bar.

 

Here's a better chord chart for the song (and it can get a lot fancier than this!)

 

| C C Am Am | Em Em Em C7 | F F F F | C C C7 C7 | F F Fm Fm | C C A7 A7+ | D7 D7 G7 G7 | C

 

Obviously there's a few non-diatonic chords there (and there could be many other subs). Mostly it's secondary dominants (C7, A7, D7). The Fm is a classic and common transition chord between F and C, and Bb7 would be a common substitute for it (if you add a 6th to the Fm, or a 9th to the Bb7 you start to see the resemblance ;)).

 

Here's what can happen if you "jazz up" the chords some more:

 

|C C Am7 Am7 | Em7 Em7 Em7 C7 | Fmaj7 Fmaj7 F6 F6 | Em7 Em7 C7 C7 | Fmaj7 Fmaj7 Bb9 Bb9 | Cmaj7 C6 A7/C# A7+/C# | D7 D7 G7 G13 |C6

 

The crucial thing when adding extensions or making substitutions is to bear the melody in mind all the time. Don't use a chord which doesn't harmonize the melody well at the point.

Eg I used a C6 after the Cmaj7 in the 6th bar, because the melody note on that beat is a C, which doesn't sound good on a Cmaj7 chord (not above the B anyway).

You could also use an Am7 on the first two beats of that bar, which fits the tune and makes a good transition between Bb9 and A7.

The use of F6 and Fmaj7 in bar 3 is optional, as either or both will fit the tune - and F7 would be an interesting sub in the last half of the bar.

The use of G13 in the 7th bar is just reflecting the melody, which is an E note on that beat.

 

As well as harmonizing the melody, the chords of course have to flow nicely from one to the next - that would be a reason for rejecting some possible alternative harmonizations. But you don't have to pay too much attention (if any) to the diatonic scale of the home key. Just keep the melody, and some good voice-leading in the chords, and anything (else) goes.

  • Members
Posted

What JonR said is right on. Also, keep in mind that if you put a Bb bass note underneath an Fm triad, you get most of the notes for Bb9.

 

Bb9= Bb, D, F, Ab, C

 

Fm=F, Ab, C

 

get the idea?

  • Members
Posted

OK I'm going to jump in again. I appreciate the help guys. I've been working at this jazz thing for a long time, but I'm not really getting some things.

 

The Over the Rainbow part is a simple example. I've been looking into ways to incorporate more exotic sounds. I bought Mark Levine's Jazz Theory Book and read most of it. It's basically major scale harmony and melodic minor scale harmony. I thought the melodic minor scale harmony was the missing link that I'd been searching for. When I listen to something like Blue in Green it has that sound, more exotic jazz flavor. But I don't get how to apply it to simple melodies like Over the Rainbow.

 

The book talks about a minor II V I as D half-diminished, G7alt and C minor-major, but I can't just put in a D half-diminished for a Dm7, or a C minor-major for a Cmaj7. It's weird because those 3 chords don't even come from the same melodic minor scale. So I don't think melodic minor harmony is what I'm looking for.

 

I like this arrangement of Imagine:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6oHYSd_Cx8

 

Definitely some cool weirdness going on, like some kind of Ab chord when the melody note is D, things like that. Going to post to make sure this goes through more later...

  • Members
Posted

Levine Jazz Theory talks about a minor II V I as D half-diminished, G7alt and C minor-major, but I can't just put in a D half-diminished for a Dm7, or a C minor-major for a Cmaj7. It's weird because those 3 chords don't even come from the same melodic minor scale. So I don't think melodic minor harmony is what I'm looking for. (How to apply to Over the Rainbow to get more exotic sounds?)

 

I like this arrangement of Imagine:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6oHYSd_Cx8

 

Definitely some cool weirdness going on, like some kind of Ab chord when the melody note is D, things like that.

  • Members
Posted

Sorry, I tried to jump back in but my longer posts are still getting blocked. Pretty frustrating, I can't say what's on my mind so going to wait again. Mods please un-restrict my account! Just re-read my last post, had to delete the first paragraphs sorry it doesn't make sense. I'll be back with more q's when I can post.

  • Members
Posted

I like this arrangement of Imagine:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6oHYSd_Cx8


Definitely some cool weirdness going on, like some kind of Ab chord when the melody note is D, things like that.

Right, that works because it's a tritone sub for a II chord. It's an Ab7#11, a lydian dominant, resolving to G. The #11 is the D of course. In fact in the original he doesn't even use a II chord, it's just a G. So what they've done in that arrangement is first of all replaced the G with D7-G; and gone a stage further and replaced the D7 with its tritone sub. They can do this because (a), all those chords still harmonize the single D melody note,and (b) Ab7 is a functional sub for D7 because it shares the internal tritone (F#-C = Gb-C).

IOW, there is a method in the "weirdness" ;). (Otherwise the changes are very close to the original.)

 

If you want something similar for Over The Rainbow, try this, which I sometimes use for the C section of the tune (the last repeat of the opening A section, which I keep relatively orthodox). Remember this is still harmonizing the melody in C, as your sequence was.

 

|F#m7b5 - B7b9 - |Em7 - - F#7b5 |Fmaj7 - Bm7b5 - |Em7 - A7b9 - |

|Dm7 - Bb9 - |Am7 - C#dim7 - |D7 - G13 - |C(6)

 

You could try that Ab7 sub in place of the D7. As in Imagine, the main melody note is D, but the tune also contains B and C. The B might be a little awkward on an Ab lydian dominant chord, but it's a short note, and resolves right up to the C. But Ab7(#11) does lead very well to G13.

  • Members
Posted

Need to keep it short, Poparad explained my quarantined posts aren't easily recovered, not sure what triggers quarantine but losing short posts is less frustrating.

  • Members
Posted

Jon why interpret Ab7#11 as tritone sub? Isn't lydian dominant derived from what Levine calls melodic minor harmony? I don't understand Levine, he doesn't say melodic minor harmony is only for major pieces. Isn't Stella By Starlight major? Levine applies melodic minor harmony.

  • Members
Posted

I don't understand Levine, he doesn't say melodic minor harmony is only for major pieces. Isn't Stella By Starlight major? Levine applies melodic minor harmony.

IMO there are a lot of problems with what Levine calls "melodic minor harmony". He's certainly right you can derive lots of interesting chords from the scale. But his main interest is in modal jazz, not in functional harmony. In the examples he gives of lydian dominant chords, he never once mentions the function, or differentiates between functional and modal usage.

The quote he gives from Stella By Starlight (P.64) doesn't explain what the chord (Ab7#11 again) is doing there, in context. In a sense this doesn't matter, because he's only explaining what scale will fit the chord (because of course the scale of the key - Bb - won't fit). His interest is really chord-scale theory, not - IMHO - "harmony" at all, in its full sense.

 

IOW, he is taking the scale first and then looking at what chords you can get from it. And then looking for tunes that contain those chords. And stopping there.

What he is not doing - which IMO any theorist should - is looking at the tunes first, and working out why those chords have been used. (The scales that might fit the chords are then the LAST thing to consider.)

Ie, Levine is not (it seems) interested in analysis. (I'm sure he'd be perfectly capable of analyzing jazz tunes, but that - unfortunately - is not what his book is about.)

 

IMO - taking the scale on board, of course! - it's a lot more interesting to look at how the chord is used in that tune; why is it there? Not to give jazz improvisers a chance to show off their lydian dominant knowledge, that's for sure!

 

To give the full 8 bars surrounding it (bars 17-24 of the tune):

 

|G7(b13) - - - | - - - - |Cm7(11) - - - | - - - - |

|Ab7#11 - - - | - - - - |Bbmaj9 - - - | - - - - |

 

Firstly, of course, it's about harmonizing the melody. Eb on the G7 chord (hence the "b13"), then F on the Cm7 chord (11), then mainly D on the Ab chord (hence #11); and ending on the 9th on the Bb chord.

Those are quite fancy harmonizations, going for upper extensions all the way.

 

But how are these chords functioning? G7 is a secondary dominant, the V of Cm. The Cm doesn't quite work as a tonic, because of the b7 (let alone the 11th). Even so, we can hear the Ab7 chord as a bVI relative to Cm. Try following it with G7, and you'll hear how natural it sounds (if you were planning on returning to Cm)..

However, it resolves to Bbmaj7, the tonic of the overall key. So it becomes the bVII of the key. It has a dual identity, IOW, as bVI of C minor, and bVII of Bb.

 

A more traditional harmonization of the melody in bars 21-22 (D-D-C-Bb-A), a chord between Cm7 and Bbmaj7, would of course be F7 (with a 13 to represent the D note). But try F13 there, and you may find - while it certainly works - it sounds a little too dull or predictable.

 

Now, none of this affects the scale you'd pick to improvise on the Ab7#11. But the way I'd choose the scale is as follows:

 

1. What are the chord tones? Ab C Eb Gb D.

2. Does the melody give us any additional notes? Yes - Bb and A natural. The A is an anomaly, but it's only the final note in the bar, a weak beat, a common place for a chromaticism resolving on to the following chord.

 

So (ignoring the A), we have 6 notes: Ab Bb C D Eb Gb. There is no F, but it seems a safe bet to add an F natural between Eb and Gb.

 

We can get all this from the chord tones and melody (remember the chord name could just be "Ab7" - we'd get the D from the melody). We don't need to look up "Ab7#11" in a chord-scale theory book. We don't need to know it's a "lydian dominant". And we don't need to name or identify the scale. We just play what the chord and the melody tell us, between them. (And any missing notes, ie F in this case, can usually be found intuitively - and if not, anything is possible.)

This is what all the old jazz players would have done.

 

Naturally, theorists exist to name these things, and to spot connections and parallels! So they look at that collection of notes, consult their files and bingo! It's the same notes as the Eb melodic minor scale! (High fives all round in the theory lab...)

 

However, the correct response to that (out in the real world of playing music) is "so what?" ;) Eb melodic minor has nothing to do with Stella By Starlight. It has no musical meaning in context, and doesn't advance our understanding any further. That knowledge is of no use to an improviser. Even if he has learned all his melodic minor scales, it's still a superfluous trip round his jazz vocabulary to visit "Eb melodic minor" and pull it out. The notes he needs are all there in the tune and chords already, staring him in the face! Moreover, working from the chord tones is more musical than just riffing on a scale.

 

If you're still with me, I'll go on (and on) about why the Ab7#11 might be there in the first place...

 

[to be continued...]

  • Members
Posted

[cont from above]

 

Just to explore that Ab7#11 in Stella By Starlight a bit more...

 

It's still an interesting question as to why Ab7#11 - rather than some other chord - should have been used to harmonize the melody at that point. After all, the melody does contain that A natural (even if it is a passing note right at the end). Even if they wanted an Ab bass, why not go for Abmaj7#11? The answer to this (and similar alternatives) is - almost certainly - voice-leading.

 

We have to get from Cm7 to Bbmaj7. And we have to accommodate the D of the melody, and ideally at least the Bb on beat 3 of the 2nd bar (strong beat). What cool options do we have of getting from chord tones on Cm7 to chord tones on Bbmaj7? F13 (as mentioned) will work in a safe traditional manner, but can we get something cooler, with maybe some half-step action? (The rule is that ANYTHING is OK, as long we arrive smoothly at Bbmaj7.)

 

Ignoring the melody (and avoiding that dull F13 option), we might go for a B7 chord - tritone sub of F7: plenty of half-steps there:

 

 

Cm7 B7 Bbmaj7

Bb > A > A

G > F# > F

Eb > D# > D

C > B > Bb

 

Sounds cool; but of course, that's not going to suit the melody at all: none of its notes are present! The D might work as the #9 of B7 (and the C could be b9), but that Bb in the tune is the deal breaker.

How about this:

 

 

Cm7 Bm(maj7) Bbmaj7

Bb > A# > A

G > F# > F

Eb > D > D

C > B > Bb

 

OK, we've accommodated both the D and the Bb (A#), AND we still have those neat chromatic slips G>F#>F and C>B>Bb. BUT - that C melody note (even on a weak beat) is jarring against the B. So it looks like we need to lose the B after all...

What chord can we think of that contains A#/Bb, F#/Gb, and D? and ideally C as well?

Well, D7#5 fits the bill:

 

Cm7    D7#5    Bbmaj7

Bb > A# > A

G > F# > F

Eb > D > D

C > C > Bb

 

However, the melody note is D, and it's not too cool for the bass note to be the same as the melody. (It can be, but we want something more interesting.) So what about the tritone sub of D7? Ab7? The melody's Bb will work as the 9th... and the Ab could make a neat half-step move UP the harmony:

 

 

Cm7 Ab7#11 Bbmaj9

Bb > Bb > C

G > Ab > A

Eb > D > D

C > C > Bb

G > Gb > F

 

That's pretty good. Of course, we don't need to have the G-Gb-F in the bass.

And seeing as the D and C are melody notes, they ought to go higher:

 

 

Cm7 Ab7#11 Bbmaj9

Eb > D > D

C > C > C

G > Ab > A

G > Gb > F

Bb > Bb > Bb

 

Cool! A Bb pedal, and 3 shared tones between the last 2 chords, plus 2 half-step moves in opposite directions.

 

Now, we don't need to voice the chords like that. We may want to put the roots in the bass (and lose a couple of those smooth moves). But the fact those moves are possible (implied) means we may hear them intuitively even if they are displaced by an octave. (We could always double the Ab root higher in the chord, to bring out that G>Ab>A if we wanted.)

 

To get back to your original question (how to "jazz up" a chord sequence), this (above) is the way you need to think - maybe summarized as follows:

 

1. Fix the melody as your guide; don't change ANY note in the melody, and keep it rhythmically solid. Ideally write it out to keep it in the forefront.

 

2. Look at the original basic chords. Can you just add extensions to them to make them more interesting? (This may well be enough for some tunes.) Just remember that too many extensions can blur the chords' identities, and might disturb the tune.

Alterations might also be worth a try, such as the odd b5 on a dom7 or m7 - but only if it helps the changes (see below), and doesn't affect the melody.

 

3. Substitution. Identify the chords in the original that seem to you most important, or most expressive in relation to the tune: the ones you want to keep, IOW. (It's always good to keep a few original chords as a kind of skeleton outline of the progression. Eg, you probably want to retain the final tonic chord, and maybe the opening chord; and maybe the chord at the beginning of each line or section. You don't need to, but if you lose too many of the original chords, you can get bogged down and lost.)

 

4. Look for smooth transitions between the chords you're keeping. Don't think about specific chords to start with, but look at the individual chord tones, and try and track them, keeping them close. Eg, if one chord tone descends by a whole step to the next chord, can you insert a half-step between, without sounding off against the melody?

  • Members
Posted

I'm with you Jon, trying to follow all of this and explain my confusion. I think there's a difference between the Bb7 in Over the Rainbow and the Ab7 in Stella though theyre both bVII7. The short Bb7 almost doesn't need to be explained in function, it's a quick twist and maybe that's why I like it? Maybe they're not similar though, Ab7 doesn't seem like a wise choice to harmonize D. Except when it is.

  • Members
Posted

I'm with you Jon, trying to follow all of this and explain my confusion. I think there's a difference between the Bb7 in Over the Rainbow and the Ab7 in Stella though theyre both bVII7. The short Bb7 almost doesn't need to be explained in function, it's a quick twist and maybe that's why I like it? Maybe they're not similar though, Ab7 doesn't seem like a wise choice to harmonize D. Except when it is.

It's basically the same thing - except of course the Ab7 in Stella is two whole bars!

What I forgot to say was to apply the notion from Over The Rainbow, that a bVII chord is a sub for a minor IV. Try playing Ebm in Stella in place of Ab7#11. The Ebm will need a maj7, of course, to reflect the D note. In older jazz harmony, a minor IV would have been used in such a place.

You only have to put an Ab bass on Ebm(maj7) to get Ab7#11 (Ab9#11 to be precise).

 

In fact one of the things that Mark Levine says (although I think in the context of one of the other modes of melodic minor), is that many (if not all) of the chords that can be harmonized from melodic minor are interchangeable. When it comes to the function of that Ab7#11, you could use Cm9b5, Ebm(maj7), D7alt, Gbmaj7#5... all of them will resolve quite neatly to Bbmaj7.

Remember Eb melodic minor is the closest scale to Bb major that will accommodate the Ab7 chord tones (take Bb major and lower the A and G).

 

In fact, (yet) another thought occurs regarding Ab7#11 resolving to Bbmaj7. If you think of it as D7alt, that's the standard V chord of Gm - relative minor of Bb.

 

So there are quite a few ways to make sense of the chord.;)

 

Of course you're right that - on the face of it - it seems an odd choice to harmonize a D note. But once you accept that lydian dominants are a common element of the jazz vocabulary, it's not that strange. And remember jazz musicians love to use rich, dense harmonies, and the melodic minor scale provides plenty of those. (That's intriguing in itself, because melodic minor was originally a synthetic scale, used for melodies only, and normally only when ascending. It's jazz that's really exploited the harmonic potential of melodic minor.)

  • Members
Posted

Jon your explanation makes sense, I played the chords several times and I hear how the Bb7 in Over the Rainbow is the same as the Ab7 in Stella. Both need that 7th, if you play just an Ab chord it doesn't sound as good. However when I went through possible chords I thought an Adim7 or even a plain old vii chord Am7b5 sounded fine in that measure. Better than the F13 which sounds like the end of the piece.

  • Members
Posted

This is why I think there's something to the melodic minor harmony even if Levine doesn't out right say it, like it's a way to get some of those more exotic sounds. The Ab7#11 isn't just a better chord than options that sound wrong, like the F13, it's also a more interesting chord than some chords that sound right, like the A half-dim. I don't understand what he's implying with his minor II V I, D half-dim, G7alt and C min-maj. It's similar to ii / V / I or Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 in terms of the roots, but in melodic minor it's VI VII I, and each from a different melodic minor key. I think there must be some way to jazz up songs with a melodic minor strategy but I don't know what it is. How would I create a progression with more of these type chords in a row, not just one like in Stella??

  • Members
Posted

I think there must be some way to jazz up songs with a melodic minor strategy

Why "must" there be? IMO you're still looking at this from the wrong angle.

 

The reason those melodic minor modes work is because of the interesting voice-leading options they bring to normal chord progressions. It's the voice-leading you need to think about, and not melodic minor modes (whose connection is coincidental).

 

But just to provide a list of the possible subs you can make:

 

MAJOR KEY

 

Minor IV chord = replace with bVII (lyd dom).

This is only the same melodic minor scale that would normally fit a minor IV chord in a major key. Eg, if you get an Fm in key of C, the likely best scale is F melodic minor, as it's the closest scale to C major that will fit. So subsituting the Bb7#11 is not chanigng very much (only the bass note, really).

 

Major IV = can sometimes have its 7th flattened to make it a lyd dom. (as with all these subs, just make sure it fits the melody.) Example: Moon RIver:

|C - - |Am7 - - |F7#11 - - |C - - - |F7#11 - - |C - - | etc.

 

V chord. A few things you can try:

(a) You can try making it into a lyd dom (by raising the 4th), but this is not done very often in jazz. (Eg D melodic minor on G7 in key of C.)

(b) You can alter it as you would a minor key dominant. (Ab melodic minor on G7 in key of C.)

© You can use the tritone substitute (Db7#11 in key of C, same scale as (b)).

(d) You can try a susb9 variation. (F melodic minor on G7 in key of C. Has 2 avoid notes, and lacks the 3rd of the chord. But using a Gsus voicing will help.)

(e) A stranger option would be a V9b13 - IOW using C melodic minor on G7 in key of C. Again, 2 avoid notes.

 

IIm chord = Flatten the 5th and add a 9th, to make a locrian natural 2 chord. (F melodic minor on Dm7(b5) in key of C.)

Again, a tritone sub might work here: in key of C, use Ab7#11 instead of Dm7 (or D7) to move to G7. (This is very similar to a common classical practice.)

 

MINOR KEY

 

You know the options for the ii-V-i. ;). The only other possibility is making the bVI chord a lyd dom.

In fact, you can sometimes substitute the iv chord of a minor key with the bVI7#11.

Eg, in C minor, you could try Ab7#11 instead of Fm. (That's the kind of change you get in Herbie Hancock's Canteloupe Island: Db7 in key of F minor, instead of Bbm; it's a cool, funky sub.)

Normally a bVI chord will resolve to V, but it can just go back to I.

  • Members
Posted

Trying a longer post, crossing my fingers... Jon I trust that you know what you're talking about, I'm just trying to figure stuff out on my own, haven't been able to afford a teacher or even find a good one. When I first showed interest in jazz some friends told me a quick shortcut was just to play sevenths on every chord. So C became Cmaj7 and Am became Am7. That was so unsatisfying to me, anyone who's ever paid attention to melodies interacting with chords has heard all these sounds before, and not even in jazz.

 

But at the very least it started pointing me to extensions, and I stopped thinking of harmony as 3 note chords and their functions. It was the Levine book that got me thinking about harmony as 7 notes, every chord is a partial vertical arrangement of 7 possible notes just not at the same time. And in some chord tones are more essential than others.

 

I don't know why jazz is so hard for me, I usually understand music pretty well and fast. I started trying to transcribe jazz years ago without knowing what I was hearing. The one guy who's music I'd really like to unlock is Bill Evans, he's got the exotic sounds down pat. I know, he's a piano player and maybe some of his really close voicings wouldn't even be possible on guitar. I couldn't figure out his chords so I sat with his music and wrote down the notes of his solos, thinking that the solos were the chords broken up. Maybe here's what's holding me up, I remember at least one tune where I think I found a bunch of melodic minor based solos. I don't remember which tune it was, but it was one of his trio albums. Now I could have botched the transcription, but at the time I started thinking that maybe this guy really was thinking in terms of melodic minor instead of major scale harmony.

 

Sorry if I seem stubborn, or maybe just clueless. I just stared at the Levine chapters for so long and no one ever dismissed the melodic minor stuff before. It just seems like there's a systematic application of it that I'm not seeing, and Levine doesn't explain clearly but I think it's there. Or at least I used to. At the surface there is subbing a susb9 chord for a phrygian chord even though the chords are possibly the same, but maybe at a deeper level that altered 6th can show up in my chord voicing, or maybe in some kind of arpeggiated chord. This is where I'm stuck. My attempts to apply Bill Evans sounds to other songs have resulted in wrong-sounding dissonances that pull the music apart instead of together. I'm starting to realize I've really got things messed up in my head. I'd love to hear what Bill Evans would have done with Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

 

I think I understand the idea of voice leading but I don't understand how I can use it as the basis for choosing chords. I've always thought that voice leading can be smooth but it doesn't mean the chords make sense together. Like I could find good voice leading from a V to a ii7 chord but that doesn't justify using a ii7 as a sub for a I. I'm just looking for a systematic way to get interesting jazz sounds instead of memorizing a long unrelated list of possible subs. Maybe I'm going about this all wrong. Ultimately I am hoping to do all this on guitar, so that will probably limit my choices too, so maybe a lot of this is moot. But if I had to point to a goal, it would be to jazz up non jazz pieces. Have to run to work, hopefully this goes through and I can post more later. Thanks a ton for your help, closest thing I've had to a real teacher.

  • Members
Posted

But if I had to point to a goal, it would be to jazz up non jazz pieces.

Good goal. As I just said in some other thread, "jazz" was always about taking some kind of popular tune and messing around with it.

In a very important sense there is no such thing as a "jazz piece". There's just "pieces of music". It's what you do with them that's "jazz".

Eg, "Autumn Leaves" was originally a popular song. It's only considered a "jazz piece" because jazz musicians have (for decades) treated it as an exercise piece.

Thankfully there are a few jazz musicians around today who are pursuing the true legacy of jazz, which can be summed up as "screwing around with contemporary pop music" (not recycling vintage pop music):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJb46qdcoEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHtbGpKg1Gg

Both those acts do some mean stuff with Radiohead tunes too.

 

You don't have to like the above, btw - it's the principle that's the point. In one sense, jazz is dead simple. It's improvisation. If your instinct is to improvise on anything you play, you're a jazz musician already. Then it's just about experimenting... But it does require knowing a tune inside out (not just learning the tune and chords by heart, but understanding all its ins and outs);and also knowing your instrument like the back of your hand. Some people forget one or the other... ;)

Knowing jazz history is a 3rd prerequisite, but only so you can stand on the shoulders of the giants.

 

BTW, if you want REAL jazz advice (I'm just an amateur ;)), you need this site:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34

What those guys don't know about Bill Evans (or melodic minor) probably ain't worth knowing.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...