if i practice guitar 3-5 hours per day

[electrotar]

 

One month - nothing but lifting solos and songs by ear... remember? Transcribe will make this a hell of a lot easier on you. Get it and do it.... if you want to improve.

 

 

I know the 1st part. I was just unsure how I was to use transcribe?

 

Was it to slow the music down? was that all? Or does transcribe actually do something else?

 

I have been trying led zeps stairway to heaven and oasis live forever so far. However I already knew them 75% anyway.

 

I know all the famous solos as I learned them. I will need to find new or obscure songs to try to find solos I do not already know.

[jeremy_green]

Yes Transcribe will help you loop parts as you are working on them and slow them down without altering the pitch.

 

From your answer I get the feeling you aren't or won't be doing as I suggested. Not certain why I feel that way but I do. My suggestion is that you take this approach very seriously. With the amount of time you are saying you have available (3-5 hrs per day). In one month you could gain a significant amount of ground. If you lined up entire albums and got down to work by the end of the month you would be a very different player likely. Especially if you took the time to analyze them a bit (as I suggested).

 

One month is a small price to pay isn't it?

It gets more fun the better you get at it. Don't know how else i can help ya man.

[runbeerrun]

Depends, I mean, you'll learn what you're studying.

[electrotar]

 

Yes Transcribe will help you loop parts as you are working on them and slow them down without altering the pitch. From your answer I get the feeling you aren't or won't be doing as I suggested. Not certain why I feel that way but I do. My suggestion is that you take this approach very seriously. With the amount of time you are saying you have available (3-5 hrs per day). In one month you could gain a significant amount of ground. If you lined up entire albums and got down to work by the end of the month you would be a very different player likely. Especially if you took the time to analyze them a bit (as I suggested). One month is a small price to pay isn't it? It gets more fun the better you get at it. Don't know how else i can help ya man.

 

 

No what I mean is....for all the bands I know and liked in my last few years since I picked up guitar I have learned all there solos by using the internet. Anytime I hear a song I liked I would go on internet and get the tab.

 

So what I am saying is I need to find songs that I dont already know the tab for and find solo by ear. But off course I therefore need to listen to bands I have never listened to before? correct?

 

Also I thought I were to breakdown solos and see when certain notes are played over certain chords. i.e. anaylse lead with respect to ryhtmn. That is what I had been doing so far. Just seeing what notes and patterns were being played over certain chords. and the sound they give. the same notes over a different chord sound completely different which is kinda cool/odd/funny. So if you learn how certain notes/riffs sound over particualr chords and you know what chords are being played it gives you more tools to create the sound you want.

[jeremy_green]

Sure... provided the tabs were accurate... also provided you spent the time analyzing what you learned to see what was really going on there. I suspect the latter didn't happen... I mean no slight, most people just learn the part.

 

OK let me be really clear about this.

 

1) pick a guitarist that you know is good and really like how they play (eg - David Gilmour of Pink Floyd)

2) pick your favourite album (Dark side of the moon)

3) Learn EVERY SINGLE guitar solo on the record using your ears

4) as you complete track one go back and figure out:

- what key the song was in

- What chords were played behind the solo

- What scale was mostly used in the solo

- What notes were chosen and how many of them were chord tones from the underlying rhythm part

- Were there any triads present in the solo

- When there is a bent note what was the note bent to?? A chord tone or non?

5) move onto track two

6) pick a new album and carry on...

if you choose another Pink Floyd album you will gain a much deeper insight into that player.

if you pick an album from the same genre it will give you a better understanding of that genre

7) How long time-wise did it take you to complete. Track this so you can see your progress and your ears improving.

 

Print this out and fill it out like a questionnaire as you do this process.

[electrotar]

 

Sure... provided the tabs were accurate... also provided you spent the time analyzing what you learned to see what was really going on there. I suspect the latter didn't happen... I mean no slight, most people just learn the part. OK let me be really clear about this. 1) pick a guitarist that you know is good and really like how they play (eg - David Gilmour of Pink Floyd) 2) pick your favourite album (Dark side of the moon) 3) Learn EVERY SINGLE guitar solo on the record using your ears 4) as you complete track one go back and figure out: - what key the song was in - What chords were played behind the solo - What scale was mostly used in the solo - What notes were chosen and how many of them were chord tones from the underlying rhythm part - Were there any triads present in the solo - When there is a bent note what was the note bent to?? A chord tone or non? 5) move onto track two 6) pick a new album and carry on... if you choose another Pink Floyd album you will gain a much deeper insight into that player. if you pick an album from the same genre it will give you a better understanding of that genre 7) How long time-wise did it take you to complete. Track this so you can see your progress and your ears improving. Print this out and fill it out like a questionnaire as you do this process.

 

 

ok ill do that but it sounds really hard as I cant even work out small riffs or chords I hear on the radio. So I think it will be a really big job, not that simple?

 

to me what you are suggesting is something I have always struggled with. Even simple 3 chord songs I never get it then I look at tab and go wow it was only C-Am-D and I could not even work it out!!

 

So, maybe I have very very bad ears? I done reall bad at school in music. As I say I learned the guitar based mainly on maths and numbers.

 

Ok so I need to try what you are suggesting definitley. It just sounds really hard for me to do.

[jeremy_green]

Start simple... a band like Nirvana or something. This is the key to getting started. Most people try something over their head.

 

Read this blog post i did:

http://sixstringobsession.blogspot.com/2010/11/how-to-learn-to-play-by-ear-great.html

 

You don't have very very bad ears you have normal untrained ones. Some people just simply stay at something, others hit an obstacle and stop. Don't stop. Start with easy easy clear stuff and as you gain your sea legs and confidence. You need to overcome this to move to the next level. I suggest you hit it head on.

[electrotar]

 

Start simple... a band like Nirvana or something. This is the key to getting started. Most people try something over their head. Read this blog post i did: http://sixstringobsession.blogspot.com/2010/11/how-to-learn-to-play-by-ear-great.html You don't have very very bad ears you have normal untrained ones. Some people just simply stay at something, others hit an obstacle and stop. Don't stop. Start with easy easy clear stuff and as you gain your sea legs and confidence. You need to overcome this to move to the next level. I suggest you hit it head on.

 

 

ok I can try nirvana as I never learned there tabs barre teen spirit and come as you are. I also have my mates official tab book for their unpluged album i think? i can refer to to correct/get answers for my work. I havent looked at the book at all apart from well teen spirit, coem as you are and man who sold the world.

 

I dont particuarly like Nirvana music but I guess I can use it for this purpose as I cant think of any others.

[girevik]

 

Read this blog post i did: http://sixstringobsession.blogspot.com/2010/11/how-to-learn-to-play-by-ear-great.html

 

 

electrotar, I recommend you lick that link above, read it and start following the instructions. I cannot believe your ears are so bad you cannot learn the basic, very very simple riffs of "Smoke On The Water" or "Whole Lotta Love" by ear, with zero tab.

[jeremy_green]

 

ok I can try nirvana as I never learned there tabs barre teen spirit and come as you are. I also have my mates official tab book for their unpluged album i think? i can refer to to correct/get answers for my work. I havent looked at the book at all apart from well teen spirit, coem as you are and man who sold the world. I dont particuarly like Nirvana music but I guess I can use it for this purpose as I cant think of any others.

 

 

No Tab - no work checking.

We are flying solo here. he point is not to get it "right" necessarily.

 

It's an exercise. You can check it in a month.

Trust the system.

[electrotar]

 

No Tab - no work checking. We are flying solo here. he point is not to get it "right" necessarily. It's an exercise. You can check it in a month. Trust the system.

 

 

ok cheers

[girevik]

 

well even smoke on water sounds hard to me but ill try it. I dont know the tab for this famous riff.

 

 

It is one of the simplest guitar riffs known to mankind. It's all power chords man. You won't need tab for this.

 

Be sure to tune your guitar first.

 

Then find the first power chord by moving your hand up and down the neck until the sound of the chord is the same as on the recording.

[mosiddiqi]

It is one of the simplest guitar riffs known to mankind. It's all power chords man. You won't need tab for this. Be sure to tune your guitar first. Then find the first power chord by moving your hand up and down the neck until the sound of the chord is the same as on the recording.

 

Caveat:...I've heard more people play this riff wrong than right . Listen carefully!.

 

Tip for absolute accuracy: Put your pick down.

[electrotar]

Caveat:...I've heard more people play this riff wrong than right . Listen carefully!. Tip for absolute accuracy: Put your pick down.

 

 

 

pick down?

 

thats one thing. I never use a pick I prefer my fingers..this is oik?

[electrotar]

Okay I have just acquired Nirvana, nevermind. Let the games begin.

 

Chord and lead to be worked out.

 

Anyone know any good program to put tab onto? I had used power tab editor before. Its pretty good.

 

my lesson plan:

 

1. Listen to Nirvana album on headphones 2-3 times.

2. Listen to song 2 (i already know teen spirit) 5 times.

3. Break down song into sections: chorus, bridge, verse, solo, riff etc.

4. Take each section part by part and listen continously

5. try and find 1st notes and chords of each part and then rest.

 

Overall, work out chords and lead for each part. Repeat for other songs

[electrotar]

And btw yall think ear training can be taught as simple as chord training etc...its a skill that can be learned not just some genetic luck? To have good ears so to speak?

[JonR]

 

And btw yall think ear training can be taught as simple as chord training etc...its a skill that can be learned not just some genetic luck? To have good ears so to speak?

Yes, it can be trained.

There's no reason to suppose people are born with different musical capacities, although it DOES seem clear that people develop differently in childhood (probably due to influence in infancy).

However, by the time people reach their teenage years, it makes little difference whether their musical skills (or lack of) were inborn or developed when very young; the course is set by then.

So how easy you find it will probably depend on what kind of musical background you've had: whether you heard lots of music through your childhood, whether you were encouraged to sing, that sort of thing.

IOW, the more natural a part of your life you feel music to be, the more "talented" you will appear. If you feel music is a strange and mysterious art, that only a gifted few seem to have access to; an activity that has somehow passed you by so far - then you will always find it difficult. Not impossible, note; just difficult.

But if you love music, that's a great start; it means you have a lot in you already. You just need to organise it. Get that voice working. (Learning to sing is intimately connected with developing a musical ear. You don't have to be a great singer to be a great musician; but singing definitely helps.)

[girevik]

And btw yall think ear training can be taught as simple as chord training etc...its a skill that can be learned not just some genetic luck?

 

Yes, like learning how to tie your shoes or brush your teeth.

 

There are several websites out there that have ear training software for free. I'm sure you can find them easily with Google. I can't recommend any because I have no experience with them, but that doesn't mean YOU can't benefit from them.

 

I got my ear training kind of the old fashioned way - in a music theory fundamentals class at university. This ear training included sight-singing out of a book (standard notation of course - no such thing as tab for your mouth!), partner games like guessing the interval while the partner plays the interval on the piano, transcribing a part of the song (just the bass line or just the melody line for example) onto paper (in standard notation), etc.

 

I had zero ear training before taking this class. No ear training at the elementary school level, middle school or in high school. So its not like I had a strong music theory background as a kid giving me an advantage. And yes, I was over 20 years old, and older than most of the other students because I spent a few years at community college earning credits for transfer to university. As it turned out, the younger kids had zero ear training too, even the ones who played classical music. We all sucked equally hard at ear training at the start. Genetic advantage, are you kidding me?? I couldn't tell a minor 3rd from a major 3rd from my foot either! I was motivated to work on my ear training and theory out of a desire to become a better musician, and to not look bad in front of the cute girls in the class.

 

You know who learned the fastest in the class? It was the oldest students - rock guitarists in their 30s or 40s that got tired of being ignorant and were self-motivated to learn, purely out of love for the music.

 

The first thing to train your ears with is the intervals. Since you are going to learn "Smoke on the water" by ear anyway (per the other thread), figure out what the first interval is on the main riff.

[electrotar]

Yes, like learning how to tie your shoes or brush your teeth. There are several websites out there that have ear training software for free. I'm sure you can find them easily with Google. I can't recommend any because I have no experience with them, but that doesn't mean YOU can't benefit from them. I got my ear training kind of the old fashioned way - in a music theory fundamentals class at university. This ear training included sight-singing out of a book (standard notation of course - no such thing as tab for your mouth!), partner games like guessing the interval while the partner plays the interval on the piano, transcribing a part of the song (just the bass line or just the melody line for example) onto paper (in standard notation), etc. I had zero ear training before taking this class. No ear training at the elementary school level, middle school or in high school. So its not like I had a strong music theory background as a kid giving me an advantage. And yes, I was over 20 years old, and older than most of the other students because I spent a few years at community college earning credits for transfer to university. As it turned out, the younger kids had zero ear training too, even the ones who played classical music. We all sucked equally hard at ear training at the start. Genetic advantage, are you kidding me?? I couldn't tell a minor 3rd from a major 3rd from my foot either! I was motivated to work on my ear training and theory out of a desire to become a better musician, and to not look bad in front of the cute girls in the class. You know who learned the fastest in the class? It was the oldest students - rock guitarists in their 30s or 40s that got tired of being ignorant and were self-motivated to learn, purely out of love for the music. The first thing to train your ears with is the intervals. Since you are going to learn "Smoke on the water" by ear anyway (per the other thread), figure out what the first interval is on the main riff.

 

ha well im pretty sure it sounds like 3 frets up so that is 3 semitones? Sorry I dont know all this tones/interval jargon fully yet?

 

I mean I know that going up note every fret is a semitone except after E and B as there is no Fb or Cb.

[JonR]

I mean I know that going up note every fret is a semitone except after E and B as there is no Fb or Cb.

It's at this point that pedantic old theorists like myself pipe up and say "oh yes there is an Fb and Cb!"

 

Of course you're right there is no separate note with those names, like there is with the other sharps and flats. E-F and B-C are 1 fret apart. But theory demands that every scale has one of each letter (so we can count intervals properly, and every note in the scale has its own line or space on notation). That means when we get to the Gb major scale, its 4th note has to be Cb. It can't be B, because we already have a Bb in the scale. So it's Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb.

 

"Why not call it the F# major scale?" you might reasonably ask. Well, sometimes we do: F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#. That's right: the F# major scale needs an "E#": same as F in terms of how you play it, but we can't call it that because of our one-of-each-note rule. (If you want a major scale starting on F# or Gb, you have to call it one or the other, you can't mix sharps and flats - mainly because you end up with 2 of some letters, other letters missing.)

 

What about "Fb" then? Try the Cb major scale: Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb Cb. Easy to see what we did there: just added a "b" to every note in the C major scale. OK, it sounds the same as B major (only 5 sharps), but just occasionally - in special circumstances - calling it Cb major makes more sense (trust me).

Likewise, there is such a rare beast as the C# major scale: C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#. (Bet you can spot what I did there.) Now we have a "B#" for chrissake! (Same old rule...)

The scale sounds exactly like Db major (5 flats), which would normally be preferred (in any situation you are likely to come across).

So these two scales are not worth worrying about, any more than you should worry about getting attacked by a polar bear. But you may as well know they exist. (Not thinking of a holiday in the Arctic any time soon, are you?)

 

Uh-huh, crazy game, this music theory...

[mosiddiqi]

 

pick down? thats one thing. I never use a pick I prefer my fingers..this is oik?

 

 

Yes, I meant use your fingers. The riff is plucked with the ring/middle fingers..but use whatever suits you. Using your fingers for this riff makes a real difference to the sound..you'll hear it when you start learning it

[JonR]

 

Okay I have just acquired Nirvana, nevermind. Let the games begin. Chord and lead to be worked out. Anyone know any good program to put tab onto? I had used power tab editor before. Its pretty good. my lesson plan: 1. Listen to Nirvana album on headphones 2-3 times. 2. Listen to song 2 (i already know teen spirit) 5 times. 3. Break down song into sections: chorus, bridge, verse, solo, riff etc. 4. Take each section part by part and listen continously 5. try and find 1st notes and chords of each part and then rest. Overall, work out chords and lead for each part. Repeat for other songs

Excellent plan.

 

As for a tab editor, I use a notation program myself, but there's GuitarPro, and Tux (which is free).

If you want something more notation-based, but still tab-friendly (and cheap), there's Finale Notepad. (The more tab oriented programs often produce badly written notation.)

 

Have you got Transcribe yet? If not, get it! Slowing down (without changing pitch) is only one of the really useful things it does. If you need any tips on using it, we can advise.

[jeremy_green]

 

Okay I have just acquired Nirvana, nevermind. Let the games begin. Chord and lead to be worked out. Anyone know any good program to put tab onto? I had used power tab editor before. Its pretty good. my lesson plan: 1. Listen to Nirvana album on headphones 2-3 times. 2. Listen to song 2 (i already know teen spirit) 5 times. 3. Break down song into sections: chorus, bridge, verse, solo, riff etc. 4. Take each section part by part and listen continously 5. try and find 1st notes and chords of each part and then rest. Overall, work out chords and lead for each part. Repeat for other songs

 

 

I am old school - pen and paper! Those notation apps just make the process far too long. My goal isn't a published piece it is to learn the song. If you spend too long messing around with the computer it is less time playing.

[jonfinn]

I have a suggestion. Warning: this list will take a few years to get through!

 

-Learn all the notes on the guitar. Practice until you can immediately name any note on the instrument. Learn to find the same pitch (in the same octave everywhere it appears).

 

-Learn all of your key signatures. Both major and minor.

 

-Learn major, minor, harmonic and melodic minor in all keys (at least five fingerings for every key).

 

-Learn triad arpeggios (maj, min, aug, dim) in all keys, all inversions, one-octave, two-octave and three octave.

 

-Learn 7th chords, all types, all inversions, all keys. Drop2 & drop 3 as well

 

-Learn 7th chord arpeggios. All inversions all types, all keys.

 

-Forget tab. Learn to read standard notation because it applies to all instruments. Not just guitar.

 

If you do that work, you'll know the instrument much better than you do now.

[JonR]

I am old school - pen and paper! Those notation apps just make the process far too long. My goal isn't a published piece it is to learn the song. If you spend too long messing around with the computer it is less time playing.

I agree. You can always print off some blank tab sheets from online somewhere (hey, include notation staves for future challenges!). Pencil (and eraser ) is then all you need.

 

Software is great if you want a professional looking printout - but then those cheap programs won't do that anyway. (Finale might.) If it's just for yourself, for your learning process and as a memory aid, pencil and paper is ideal. You can add any kind of scribble you want, such as lyrics, or other hints or reminder labels, anywhere, without all that damn formatting business.