Members joenovice Posted August 3, 2010 Members Posted August 3, 2010 I've been using a GK3 and GI20 for sequencing input for a while. My setup has worked pretty good and tracks OK. I'm looking for something better. The GK3 always feels late and sluggish.... plus it requires a very gentle playing technique to achieve good results. What about using RMC? Could I switch MIDI pups and still use the GI-20? The RMC website is pretty horrible.... surely there is some better organized information somewhere.
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 3, 2010 Members Posted August 3, 2010 To me, I have been saying for years and will continue to say that the RMC beats a GK pickup in tracking hands down. Before getting rid of your GI 20, I would try an RMC equipped guitar and hook that up to it. To me, the difference is like night and day. And you can also use the GHOST system from graphtech which tracks equally as well as an RMC pickup. http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?CategoryID=2 They have a video on their website of someone demonstrating the GHOST system and it is made to be put into a guitar. They do not make a guitar with the GHOST system built in as far as I know.
Members joenovice Posted August 3, 2010 Author Members Posted August 3, 2010 Can you recommend a RMC product that I can refit on my guitar? I'm currently using a Les Paul with the GK.
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 3, 2010 Members Posted August 3, 2010 Can you recommend a RMC product that I can refit on my guitar? I'm currently using a Les Paul with the GK. The only RMC's I know are the ones in certian guitar models. (Carvin, Brian Moore, Godin, etc.) I was not even aware they made a kit for putting it into another guitar. I looked on their website here, but did not find the 13 pin kit you would need for a MIDI guitar. You could email them and ask them though. http://www.rmcpickup.com/products.html Why not try the GHOST system? It is made to be put into a guitar and from what I hear they give you excellent support installing it if you or your luthier have any problems. They are also right on par with RMC pickups in terms of tracking and quality. If I was building a guitar or already had one and needed a 13 pin system, the GHOST system is the one I would choose.
Members joenovice Posted August 3, 2010 Author Members Posted August 3, 2010 I'm guessing this is what I'd need for my Les Paul? http://www.graphtech.com/product-355-2/I can't seem to access their installation instructions to check out more details.
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 3, 2010 Members Posted August 3, 2010 I'm guessing this is what I'd need for my Les Paul? http://www.graphtech.com/product-355-2/I can't seem to access their installation instructions to check out more details. That and the electronics kit that goes with it. You still have to install the controls and the 13 pin jack. Here is the kit I was talking about....but the bridge you order seperately....apparently. You would need both to make a MIDI system. http://www.graphtech.com/product-38-2/ ($268.95) AND http://www.graphtech.com/product-355-2/ (193.95) For a GRAND TOTAL of $462.90. Not bad for a complete MIDI system to put in a les paul. The only thing is you may have to do some routing. But I do not know all the specifics, you should email graphtech and ask them.
Members joenovice Posted August 4, 2010 Author Members Posted August 4, 2010 Wow... much more affordable than an RMC aftermarket install. They run $250 for the bridge and $350 for a polyphonic converter. Add pro install fees and you're screwed. Thanks for the tips.... I'll look into the GHOST stuff some more.
Members MIDIme Posted August 5, 2010 Members Posted August 5, 2010 Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I believe the latency and tracking problems are from the GI20. The best unit for converting the hex pick up signal is an Axon. None of the Roland units can compare in that regard. I use a 13 pin splitter box to run one signal into MY VG99 and the other signl into an Axon 100 MKII. I use the vg's sounds for guitars. I use the aAxon to convert the signal t0 MIDI and the drive a sonic cell and a motif rack unit for all other sounds. MIDIme
Members joenovice Posted August 5, 2010 Author Members Posted August 5, 2010 I'd love to upgrade but I can't afford the new price and the used market is dry.
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 5, 2010 Members Posted August 5, 2010 Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I believe the latency and tracking problems are from the GI20. The best unit for converting the hex pick up signal is an Axon. None of the Roland units can compare in that regard. I use a 13 pin splitter box to run one signal into MY VG99 and the other signl into an Axon 100 MKII. I use the vg's sounds for guitars. I use the aAxon to convert the signal t0 MIDI and the drive a sonic cell and a motif rack unit for all other sounds.MIDIme Well you cannot fairly compare a Roland GI 20 with an axon ax 100 Mark II unit. Of COURSE the axon is faster in tracking and it also cost twice as much, but the GI 20 will do him just fine if he changes from a GK pickup to an RMC or GHOST pickup. Like I said the difference will be like night and day in terms of tracking. It certianly was for me.
Members mlabbee Posted August 6, 2010 Members Posted August 6, 2010 I've played a Gk and a brian moore guitar into Roland products and the difference is distinct (the RMC tracks much better). My understanding is the Roland algorithms look for the fundamental, so the more harmonics, the longer it takes to sort things out. This explains the initial lag, since the transients of the pluck completely screw with the converter - this also explains why the Godin nylon string guitars supposedly track so well - those strings damp the transients and harmonics much more quickly. Detecting the signal at the bridge helps, because the harmonic signal is lower (which is why they have you cram that GK3 as clos to the bridge as possible) So going with a piezo system should help a lot - if you are still unhappy, the axon would be the next step.
Members JPIndustrie Posted August 7, 2010 Members Posted August 7, 2010 Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I believe the latency and tracking problems are from the GI20. The best unit for converting the hex pick up signal is an Axon. None of the Roland units can compare in that regard. I use a 13 pin splitter box to run one signal into MY VG99 and the other signl into an Axon 100 MKII. I use the vg's sounds for guitars. I use the aAxon to convert the signal t0 MIDI and the drive a sonic cell and a motif rack unit for all other sounds.MIDIme I have to disagree here. I have experience in using a Gibson LP w/ GK-3 and a Godin LGXT (w/ custom factory RMC kit) and my Roland GI-10 (which people say is similar but without the USB) completely killed the Axon 100 MKII. Much more responsive, faster and 'real', than the MKII. IMO
Members aliensporebomb Posted August 9, 2010 Members Posted August 9, 2010 I've posted this before which is my VG-99 using its guitar-to-midi feature via USB versus the actual MIDI in/out/thru but it bears repeating I think: http://pod.ath.cx/vg99/midi/asb-mystica.mp3 It tracks really fast and steadily, capable of a brilliant performance with little seeming latency. Here is the score of the fast part at the end: This was done thru Garageband on a Mac G5 tower. My Core i7 Mac should do even better I would suspect.
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 10, 2010 Members Posted August 10, 2010 I have to disagree here. I have experience in using a Gibson LP w/ GK-3 and a Godin LGXT (w/ custom factory RMC kit) and my Roland GI-10 (which people say is similar but without the USB) completely killed the Axon 100 MKII. Much more responsive, faster and 'real', than the MKII. IMO Sorry, but I think that statement about the GI 10 killing the axon mark II is total BS! Most people know that the axon tracks faster HANDS DOWN than any Roland product going into a synth! That is not a myth, it is a FACT!
Members aliensporebomb Posted August 10, 2010 Members Posted August 10, 2010 We really need to get a side-by-side shootout going - I think it would be kind of neat to compare and contrast the different systems. And it's too bad that the supposed best system just fades away into the sunset with no hope of recovery. "Buy a used one or a new one in the pipeline". Yikes. In five years when the components inside the things start going bad what happens then? I know there has been a great effort by the synth people to preserve and maintain the old synthesizers. Roland should just buy the assets of Axon and incorporate it into their products.
Members Protocol_b Posted August 10, 2010 Members Posted August 10, 2010 Folks, the pick-up & converter box, when we're talking sequencing into a computer, are only semi-relevant. You need a DAW that provides midi tools. (I use Logic Pro). Run 6 mono channels & filter out all notes less-than & greater-than a given velocity range on each channel. It immediately removes all your glitches & harmonics. You can set the latency so low you can't hear lag at all & play away. (Watch the bend-ranges on your soft-synths though). If the fools that designed the hardware gave you that option onboard you could use any DAW you wanted. Protocol_b
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 11, 2010 Members Posted August 11, 2010 We really need to get a side-by-side shootout going - I think it would be kind of neat to compare and contrast the different systems.And it's too bad that the supposed best system just fades away into the sunset with no hope of recovery. "Buy a used one or a new one in the pipeline". Yikes.In five years when the components inside the things start going bad what happens then? I know there has been a great effort by the synth people to preserve and maintain the old synthesizers.Roland should just buy the assets of Axon and incorporate it into their products. Apparently you are not aware of the aftermarket for parts that people use for the older axon blue chip units. I am confident that the newer axon will have an aftermarket as well. I don't see it "fading into the sunset" as you seem to apparently think it is going to. Because the old blue chip axon units are still being used and you can still get parts for them. So why not the newer axon units?
Members Protocol_b Posted August 12, 2010 Members Posted August 12, 2010 ... except that this thread is based on the original post regarding using a MIDI guitar for sequencing - be assured one would need a DAW for that...
Members mygolfcart123 Posted August 13, 2010 Members Posted August 13, 2010 ... except that this thread is based on the original post regarding using a MIDI guitar for sequencing - be assured one would need a DAW for that... It is also based on tracking and what is best for that.
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