Members Thelonius Posted June 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Carati First, ask them if they have actually read the entire bible. A good 95% of christians haven't, so the next question is - "Why do YOU go to church when you don't really have a clue where the religion comes from and what it really teaches?"There are huge virtually unknown sections of the bible, that if read aloud in church, would cause the entire congregation to just get up and leave. And even the parts that are well known are not at all followed by even the most devote church goers. You and I must have different definitions of the word 'diplomatic' I've read the bible many times and know it quite well and a lot better than a lot of people who profess to be Christians but I'm not on a crusade here. I'm not trying to get them not to go to church. I have zero interest in disuading anyone from religion or church and quite frankly don't care what the reasons for someone going to church is, as it's none of my business and I certainly wouldn't dream of holding them accountable for not knowing the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted June 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Darkburst Them: "Hey, do you want to join us at church this Sunday?"Me: "Are any fine {censored}in' bitches gonna be there?" Best one yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BandofThievesâ„¢ Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius I personally think it's rude to invite me. Because it puts me in a position that I feel I need to explain why I will not be accepting your hospitality and making myself look like a dick, while at the same time telling you that I think what you believe is wrong.In the meantime, if anyone's thinking of asking me.....I know where the {censored}ing church is. If you don't own the church your invitation doesn't hold any more water than me driving down myself and going. But outside of all of that. I don't want to be a dick. You know..usually when someone invites me to a church, they're being nice. I just don't {censored}ing like it.So what's the best way to be diplomatic? Ask if you can bring your Husband:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darkburst Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Show up at church and just play with a Game Boy or PSP the whole time with the volume cranked. Better yet, bring your iPod and sing the lyrics to the Slayer songs you're listening to out loud. Wear a Slayer T-Shirt at the same time for added effect. They'll never invite you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carati Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by superunknown Whoa. Examples? Timothy I 2:11-14 Samuel II 12:11-14 Deuternomy 13 Kings II 17 Zechariah 14:1-2 Judges 21:10-24 Corinthians 14:34-35 Chronicles II 15 Numbers 31:7-18 Deuternomy 20:10-14 Exodus 21:7-11,22 Deuternomy 22:28-29 I could go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members us2bslim Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius It doesn't matter to me who the expletive is referring to. I'm of the opinion that taking the lord's name in vein is a very explicit instruction, and I don't consider that to fall under that category. I don't say it around people that I know it will offend anyways but I think it's really silly how bent out of shape people get. Even if I conceded to you that this was a violation of that particular commandment, most of the people who get the big saucer eyes when they hear the word and trembly whisper the abbreviation "you said G-D" are the same people who wouldn't think twice of lying to their mom about where they were last night...coveting one's neighbor's wife or other {censored}, or getting upset and saying "Jesus, I don't understand this" I'm curious as to where the heiarchy was set and no one told me about it. I agree, that I think this commandment is more about how you use the name of God, and to what end, than it is about a phrase that some folks say almost automatically. Nonetheless, for me it is a flip statement, that doesn't really communicate anything positive. I guess, that is why I don't dig it. I don't think using it means that somebody is a goon though. I just would feel really uncomfortable about using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mst3k Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 I really do just believe in life. Life = church = my religion. I am not gonna stick myself in a building after waking up early on a Sunday after working a 65 hour week and put on some uncomfortable BS tie and go commune with hypocrites who criticize everything and everyone around them, and listen to a Man...................a man, that knows no more about the big picture than I do. The big question I always go back to is from childhood. I didn't ever ask if there was a God. I did ask about death and life and what it all means. Mostly God and religion was the answer I got, with no proof to back it up. I was told to have faith. I did not understand. I still don't. What if no one ever told you about religion? Wouldn't you just come to deal with it and just realize that what you have "right here in front of you" is pretty much all that is guaranteed?? And that is limited at best. So just live your life! Be a good person. Care about people. No one, repeat, NOONE but the dead, knows what really happens when we die. And last I checked. They aren't talking. Be good humans. To me that is it. Life is my church and religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeremy Skrenes Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius ....actually I was hoping you'd reply. You're my spirtual adviser. And Jeremy Skrenes. But Jeremy doesn't know that. Sorry bout that. Well, sorry for not weighing in eariler;) I'd say that politeness is the best route--I never like to burn bridges unless it's a last resort. All of the polite ways of declining should give you enough options. If you are being repeatedly asked by the same person, then I'd tell them you are aware of their views and that you know the door is always open for you to accept the invitation. That being said, I'd then tell them there is no need to continuously extend the invitation. Rather interesting question, Thelonious. I just finished an adult Bible study course called "evangelism for shy Lutherans," where we explored why it is difficult to invite people to church and how to overcome that (one of them is to challenge the notion that religion/spirituality is so private that we can't ever talk about it). So it's interesting to be giving advice on how to decline a church invitation while I'm challenging myself to be more aware of opportunities to invite. One thing I have yet to do, because I haven't encountered too many Mormons/other door knocking church people, is offer someone a half hour where they can present their spiritual angle to me, and then we can talk about stuff for another half hour that has nothing to do with religion. I wonder how many church invitations get made because people want to put another notch in their evangelical belt (I saved 32 people this week, never mind that we'll only ever see 3 of them in church and only 1 will be an active member after a year, or the theological fact that it is Christ that does the saving and not our feeble attempts), rather than because people genuinely care about each other... Well I've rambled long enough. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members us2bslim Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Carati I could go on... You probably should go on and on...Context is kinda important. You might disagree, and that is fine, but limited excerpts with little or no context are not particularly fair ways to critique literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeremy Skrenes Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Oh, one more thought about taking the name of the Lord in vain (using it to swear, curse, or as a filler in conversation), for those that believe in God, it's important to not have a flip and trivial view of Him. However, I one of my bandmates I toured with (in a Christian band) would occasionally use the name of other gods and/or religions as a swear word. I never liked that. I figure I should apply the same standard to other religions as my own, and so I make an effort not to offend or insult that which is most valuable to someone else, whether it's their spirituality or their '59 Les Paul. (For some that's one and the same.) J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 80k Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Marcus Dahl One set knocked on the door right as I got out of the shower, and getting ready for a gig. It made me so mad. I grabed a butcher knife , while I had a towel on, answered the door and said "All hail Satan." I'm really ashamed of this, but I wasn't bothered again while living there. Well, not till the Church Of Christ showed up, but that's a different story. you are now my favorite christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members us2bslim Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Jeremy Skrenes I wonder how many church invitations get made because people want to put another notch in their evangelical belt (I saved 32 people this week, never mind that we'll only ever see 3 of them in church and only 1 will be an active member after a year, or the theological fact that it is Christ that does the saving and not our feeble attempts), rather than because people genuinely care about each other... Well I've rambled long enough.J I wonder the same thing. I wonder how many of the people that do this agressive inviting, also just check in to say howdy, or ask about your kids or offer to help you move...you get the picture. It seems like that might do a bit more. Relationship evangelism vs. hit and run evangelism. Which is more in keeping with Christ's teachings? Christ provided for peoples needs (feeding the 5,000, healing the sick, etc...) before, or as a part of addressing their spiritual needs. I could certainly be a better friend, not so I get another "notch" in my spiritual belt, but because it is the right thing to do ("love they neighbor"). Have you also noticed that the people in this thread that react most violently, are those that reference, hypocrits and negative people in the church as the reason they don't attend. I can relate to that. For me, I decided to quit caring about that, and just focus on the belief and the relationship. At that point it was alot easier for me to accept my fellow congregants as just humans, with typical problems, just like me, without that undermining my belief/faith. "Evangelism for Shy Lutherans" sounds like a Garrison Keillor title. Funny stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members us2bslim Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Jeremy Skrenes Oh, one more thought about taking the name of the Lord in vain (using it to swear, curse, or as a filler in conversation), for those that believe in God, it's important to not have a flip and trivial view of Him. However, I one of my bandmates I toured with (in a Christian band) would occasionally use the name of other gods and/or religions as a swear word. I never liked that. I figure I should apply the same standard to other religions as my own, and so I make an effort not to offend or insult that which is most valuable to someone else, whether it's their spirituality or their '59 Les Paul. (For some that's one and the same.)J What Band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeremy Skrenes Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by us2bslim What Band? It was a volunteer band called Captive Free. They are part of a nonprofit organization called Youth Encounter (www.youthencounter.org) that sends out 8 regional Captive Free bands each year (you volunteer for a year tour) and a handful of international teams. I toured with Captive Free North Central (ND, SD, MN) for a year, and New Vision, a band that toured in America and Australia for a second year. I didn't make any money, but all my booking work and living expenses were taken care of. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marcus Dahl Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by 80k you are now my favorite christian. Thanks! My wife was mad at me about it. I tolder her it was the same group that's come around everytime. I'm not saying what group it was, but they believe that only 4,000., no 40,000, no 400,000 will only get into Heaven. WTF!!! How many times does this change. Once a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members us2bslim Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Jeremy Skrenes It was a volunteer band called Captive Free. They are part of a nonprofit organization called Youth Encounter ( www.youthencounter.org) that sends out 8 regional Captive Free bands each year (you volunteer for a year tour) and a handful of international teams. I toured with Captive Free North Central (ND, SD, MN) for a year, and New Vision, a band that toured in America and Australia for a second year. I didn't make any money, but all my booking work and living expenses were taken care of. J Interesting stuff. I bet that was quite an experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marcus Dahl Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by us2bslim Have you also noticed that the people in this thread that react most violently, are those that reference, hypocrits and negative people in the church as the reason they don't attend. I can relate to that. For me, I decided to quit caring about that, and just focus on the belief and the relationship. At that point it was alot easier for me to accept my fellow congregants as just humans, with typical problems, just like me, without that undermining my belief/faith. For me it wasn't the fact that they did those things, but that they would do it in God's house. I find that to be a sacred place. I didn't realize till I was 15 or so that Jesus got upset about this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carati Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by us2bslim You probably should go on and on...Context is kinda important. You might disagree, and that is fine, but limited excerpts with little or no context are not particularly fair ways to critique literature. Well the thought of spending the next 4 hours typing out the context - about how the Lord advocates slavery, rape, baby killing and mass murder - when you could be reading it yourself, isn't very enticing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeremy Skrenes Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 It's what got me into fx and mods and such. You can't afford to take your gear into a shop every time a wire pops loose when you only make $80 a month and that also buys all your clothes and whatever else churches don't provide. But it was a great experience otherwise too: I got to see the world, make a difference in people's lives, and make some decent music while I was at it. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted June 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by us2bslim Have you also noticed that the people in this thread that react most violently, are those that reference, hypocrits and negative people in the church as the reason they don't attend. I can relate to that. For me, I decided to quit caring about that, and just focus on the belief and the relationship. At that point it was alot easier for me to accept my fellow congregants as just humans, with typical problems, just like me, without that undermining my belief/faith I can understand it as well, and often feel that way, but it is also often used as an excuse as to why people don't go to church when in reality they don't have an excuse or really need one. I'm not so much concerned about hypocracy myself. For example, I can see what you're saying about church being about you/your family and God. I just think of churches as communities and the interaction with each other is the most important thing because it's what offers you the support that humans sometimes need and a lot of times I have very little in common with the people that the community is made up of. If you ever did see me in a church it would be one where the microphone for the preacher is optional. I see less and less of those as time goes on. Now everyone has church megaplexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mst3k Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Ya know what scares me the most? The fact that the most horrific wars ever fought are based on exactly what we are talking about right here. If the whole thing goes "Kaboom" over this {censored}. How sad will that be??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mst3k Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Meaning, Im loving that, here, we can just talk about it. This really is one of the best threads on the subject Ive ever read here. People are actually talking. But I mean how many nasty nasty battles around our world have occured and still do big time, all based on religion. Im really not tryin to be Debbie Downer. Wah Wah wah wah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kestral Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 Tell them you're sacrificing virgins that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mst3k Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 To me.............................................. Its like "People who believe in the Easter Bunny" ahh cute bunny. blowing the {censored} outta people who "Believe in Santa Clause" I can't help but think...........................WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BmoreTele Posted June 23, 2005 Members Share Posted June 23, 2005 The same way I decline invitations to join any cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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