Jump to content

IndoFunkCity's Pan Pedal thread


hoerni

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Okay, this thread is mostly for posting pictures for IFC, but I figured I'd catch up everyone who might be remotely interested.

 

It all started when IFC picked up an Ibanez Volume / Pan Pedal (see this thread ). This looks like a cool little pedal that would act as a volume for channel 1 and either a volume or a reverse volume for channel 2 (i.e. channel 2 either increased in volume with channel 1 or decreased when channel 1 increased). Problem was at the center position the output from both amps was significantly reduced. The plot for this looked like the following:

 

pan_passive_log.jpg

 

The first suggestion was to use a dual ganged linear pot to minimize the dip at the 50% mark. This worked, but the output was still 6dB down at the center and rolled off pretty quick. (I'm not even sure how hard a dual ganged linear pot would be to find)

 

pan_passive_lin.jpg

 

After looking for other passive solutions, I found this article (The Secret Life of Pots which shows how to modify the voltage divider action of passive volume pots. With that I came up with the following variation (still requiring a dual ganged linear pot)

 

pan_passive_log_w_res.jpg

 

Only 3dB down at the center point, but the rest of the transistion seems to be not steep enough. I can't simulate the end of the pot with my current script, but I think it would go from -14 to -Infinity in that last little bit.

 

On a side note, we investigated IFC's volume/panner pedal. To re-enforce the HCFX geeky creed, we decided to do this at the bar during a June Fool gig, and tragicmagic caught us (after LeftyGeek took the picture)

 

Image075ab.jpg

 

As best as I can figure, the pedal uses a log pot for channel one, then a linear pot for channel 2 (both on the same shaft). Then a switch is used to connect a resistor in the appropriate place to make the second channel act like either a log pot or a reverse log pot. Pretty cool. I still can't believe they got a log-taper / lin-taper dual ganged pot though.

 

After this, we decided to try an active solution. Sir HC suggested the Orban pan circuit, and I found some online references, (this was the best one). We considered gutting a Behringer mixer (see this thread), but couldn't find one cheap engouh. So, I whipped up the circuit for the Orban on a bread board and it seems to work.

 

Next step is to find an old volume / wah pedal to house this in. (Contact me or IFC if you have one your looking to get rid of).

 

Yesterday, I modified my script to plot the response of this circuit. It looks similar to the linear pot plot above, but some subtle differences. I feel this is probably the best choice as it is the circuit used in most mixers. Also, it only requires a single linear taper pot to make it work.

 

pan_active_lin.jpg

 

Whew, that's it. I'll post more when we get the housing / wiring done. Hope at least a few of you got something out of this post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

Originally posted by hoerni

Next step is to find an old volume / wah pedal to house this in. (Contact me or IFC if you have one your looking to get rid of).

Of course, that is the most important part of this post :D

 

 

Thanks for doing the research and geekout for me, hoerni! You will be amply rewarded in this life and in the next :D

 

 

Now someone sell us a wah shell!! :mad:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by IndofunkCity


Whaddya say, hoerni? Should I get it? 18 bucks ... probably about as low as a wah shell would be...

 

 

I've been looking at that one. It reminds me of one I bought at Rondo back in high school. It'll probably do.

 

If nothing else, we can put it in there and more the circuit over to a sturdier enclosure when one becomes available. The nice thing about this one is it already comes with 4 1/4" jacks so no additional drilling.

 

I was hoping to order a couple of things from MF, so if you want I can add this and we can settle up later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by MrSage

Hehe...It's only 3:00 for them Cali-for-ni-a folks...

 

Good point. I was just bumpin' it right before I left work. I've been trying to be more aware of the left coast. Making sure to end my current ebay auctions at a time that is convenient to bidders from coast to coast :D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by Echotraveler

I WOULD SO GIVE YOU GUYS MY DUNLOP VOLUME PEDAL.....IT SUCKS ASS..I HATE IT...



WITH ONLY ONE CONDITION...SEND ME THE PEDAL FOR A MONTH TO TRY IT OUT...
:cool:

what do you say ???

 

That would be up to IFC... I think he wants this to use pretty quick.

 

I'm thinking I could make a second though. The cost of the parts and labor would be worth it for a free dunlop case :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by hoerni



That would be up to IFC... I think he wants this to use pretty quick.


I'm thinking I could make a second though. The cost of the parts and labor would be worth it for a free dunlop case
:D

 

that could be arranged man.....i could use a nice vol/pan for my 2 amp rig.....

 

cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Echotraveler



that could be arranged man.....i could use a nice vol/pan for my 2 amp rig.....


cheers

 

 

Well, do you want to use it only for a month (as you said above) or do you want a pan pedal for yourself? Or do you want it to try for a month with the option of buying? (I'm cool with any of the options.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by IndofunkCity

Awesome hoerni! You can go into the vol/pan business!! This circuit is definitely lacking in the market, and I smell a need!
:D

 

I just might have to do that. I had always planned on building some pedals, but I didn't figure what or when.

 

It's good timing, as I have an actual performance coming up and I need to buy 4x10 bass cab. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Updates:

 

Waiting for the MF order with the plastic shell. Should be here in a couple of days.

 

I paypalled the guy about the black cat moan. That should be coming soon.

 

Still PMing with monkeyland about his wah and EB volume.

 

Questions (for Satish, but I'm interested in anyone elses opinions):

 

Do you want any kind of "bypass" switch? I'm thinking of something that would set the pan to the center with a switch. Of course this would only work in some pedals (like a crybaby) which have foot switch. Of course the problem with a crybaby style is that you would pan all the way to one side, hit the switch and then it would be balanced. I suppose a Morley style with a button to the side would be better, but harder to build. Originally I didn't think this would be a worthwhile option, but I figured I'd float the idea.

 

Second, would it be useful to have an LED light near the center (i.e. balance point)? I tried an idea I had for this tonight, but it impacted the audio too much. I could probably make it work with a dual ganged pot, but it means more parts (and some possibly expensive - I don't know where to find a dual ganged linear pot). This was kinda my alternative idea to the bypass.

 

Are either of these desired, or am I just trying to make life harder for myself? :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It would be extremely useful to me to have either of those options. On the Ibanez vol/pan there's a switch on the side that chooses between volume and pan ... instead of a foot switch (which would entail panning all the way to one side to turn it on or off), could you do a switch on the side? Do you want to use the Ibanez' switch? A mini toggle perhaps?

 

OR. How about notching it so that every time I slide by the center, it catches. The travel won't be 100% smooth, but at least I'll know where center is, without a light. I don't even know if such a thing is possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by IndofunkCity

It would be extremely useful to me to have either of those options. On the Ibanez vol/pan there's a switch on the side that chooses between volume and pan ... instead of a foot switch (which would entail panning all the way to one side to turn it on or off), could you do a switch on the side? Do you want to use the Ibanez' switch? A mini toggle perhaps?


OR. How about notching it so that every time I slide by the center, it catches. The travel won't be 100% smooth, but at least I'll know where center is, without a light. I don't even know if such a thing is possible.

 

Well, at least it's not just me who likes the idea :)

 

Foot switches on the side are tough. I've thought about doing it with a big toggle, but then it's difficult to switch the other way with your foot. Or a momentary toggle, but then you need a latching buffer circuit (not impossible, but more of a pain in this case. I've also thought about notching out a section of the pedal so a foot switch could be located in a discrete place that could be used at the end of the travel, or alone. None of these sound like they'lll really work. I don't think the ibanez slide switch will be any better.

 

Unless you're just looking for a bypass you can flip by hand. Then it's pretty easy to put a toggle in the side. Still trying to figure out how to do it with a foot switch.

 

The notch actually sounds like a pretty simple idea that just might work. I could make a cut on the rack and modify the tensioner to "feel" the notch. That's a possibility.

 

I've got the circuit designed for "balance" light (in my head at least), but I'm having trouble finding a 10k dual ganged pot with a 1 inch (or more) shaft.

 

Oh, here's another idea.... Maybe I could use a momentary foot switch underneath the pedal. Such that with your foot not on the pedal, the switch isn't pressed, but when you put your foot on the pedal it depresses and activates the pan. That again would require a decent about of physical design.

 

Oh, and one last question, Does this think need to be battery powered, or pedal board only? There are probably some power inefficient tricks I could play if it's remote power only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by hoerni

Well, at least it's not just me who likes the idea
:)

Cool. Good ideas.

 

Side foot switch/momentary toggle - forget it.

 

Balance light - sounds like too much work. Scrap it.

 

Momentary "weight control" switch - Also sounds like too much effort.

 

Hand toggle - acceptable, not ideal.

 

Notch - #1 idea. Work it.

 

How about a notch AND a hand toggle? So I can pretty accurately set the pan to center on the fly, but if I need to I can hard-bypass it?

 

All my pedals run on adaptors, and so will this one, so go wild with your power-hungry self :)

 

Thanks again :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by IndofunkCity


Cool. Good ideas.


Side foot switch/momentary toggle - forget it.


Balance light - sounds like too much work. Scrap it.


Momentary "weight control" switch - Also sounds like too much effort.


Hand toggle - acceptable, not ideal.


Notch - #1 idea. Work it.


How about a notch AND a hand toggle? So I can pretty accurately set the pan to center on the fly, but if I need to I can hard-bypass it?


All my pedals run on adaptors, and so will this one, so go wild with your power-hungry self
:)

Thanks again
:)

 

I'll have to weight until I get a pedal to test how well the notch idea works. Also, if power isn't an issue, I can use a relay (or even do it solid state) and maybe mount a small button on the treadle to detect if your foot is there or not. Problem with that is wires running from the treadle into the pedal. Constant flexing.

 

I'll have to play with solid state switching ideas to see if I can get it to work with a momentary button. (using the hand bypass is a backup, but I'd like to come up with something better)

 

If I can't figure out anything quickly, we'll go with the notch and the hand toggle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by hoerni

If I can't figure out anything quickly, we'll go with the notch and the hand toggle.

 

Help me with something ... I'm trying to interpret the curves ... am I correct in saying that near the center of the travel, say from 40% to 60%, there's not that much change in the pan, or is it the opposite? Looks like most of the change takes place in the first and last 20%. The reason I bring this up is that it may not be that essential after all to come up with a good bypass system, if I can just set the pedal "somewhere" near the middle then use a hand bypass or even a Morley-style side button (or how bout like the 535q boost button on the side?) to bypass it. Does that sound right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by IndofunkCity


Help me with something ... I'm trying to interpret the curves ... am I correct in saying that near the center of the travel, say from 40% to 60%, there's not
that
much change in the pan, or is it the opposite? Looks like most of the change takes place in the first and last 20%. The reason I bring this up is that it may not be that essential after all to come up with a good bypass system, if I can just set the pedal "somewhere" near the middle then use a hand bypass or even a Morley-style side button (or how bout like the 535q boost button on the side?) to bypass it. Does that sound right?

 

 

I think you are reading it right. In the middle of the sweep it's a pretty mild change (just like a pan pot on a mixer).

 

I'll take a look at the 535Q boost to see how it works.

 

Also, I assume you want 2 input, 2 output so you can run stereo effects through it, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...