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So affirmative action isn't necessary, right?


riffdaddy

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CNN just reported that amongst black citizens of France, those with Arab-sounding last names have their resumes summarily rejected five times more often than those with traditional French names.

 

Nevermind that we only got around to abolishing slavery 150 years ago and indentured servitude 35 years ago (well after France on both counts)...We don't need affirmative action here at all, right?

 

:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Mr. Twang



Oh, ok then.




:rolleyes:



Perhaps it's different in New York (though I kind of doubt it), but here in Kansas, many small business owners who don't have a large enough corporation to have to follow federal regulations don't hire blacks. At all. Not even to mow the lawn (no, I'm not exaggerating about this in the slightest). Without regulation, I doubt this practice would be restricted to small business.

Until racism is bred out of the ownership class in this country, we need something in place to insure that minorities receive fair opportunities for work and education.

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Originally posted by Mr. Twang



Oh, ok then.




:rolleyes:



things are very different for us in NYC. we don't see the discrimination others do. employers hire the best person for the job, regardless of their ethnicity. we discriminate based on outward appearance and income level, but that's really it. if you got the skills, and know how to voice that properly, you got the job.

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Originally posted by Help!I'maRock!



things are very different for us in NYC. we don't see the discrimination others do. employers hire the best person for the job, regardless of their ethnicity. we discriminate based on outward appearance and income level, but that's really it. if you got the skills, and know how to voice that properly, you got the job.

 

 

That's a nice thought, but I don't believe it. I'm not saying you are lying or an idiot, just that you are maybe a little sheltered.

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Originally posted by Help!I'maRock!



things are very different for us in NYC. we don't see the discrimination others do. employers hire the best person for the job, regardless of their ethnicity. we discriminate based on outward appearance and income level, but that's really it. if you got the skills, and know how to voice that properly, you got the job.

 

 

Yeah, it might be different in blue states. In red states, the N word gets tossed around as if it were still socially acceptable. A few months back I overheard a 30-something woman say something to the effect of, "I'm around black people enough at work. Why should I have to be around them at church?" She said it in the middle of a crowded restaurant. Loudly. Nobody winced but me.

 

With attitudes like this so prevalent in middle America, how can we afford not to have affirmative action?

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Most of the successful black people I know are rather embarrassed to think that they got where they are in life because of affirmative action.

The last company where I worked had a final round of layoffs one time, and they had to choose between a black guy and white guy. They let the white guy go and kept the black guy, even though he (black guy) was grossly incompetent and lacked motivation. I'm not sure how that really helped anyone. I guess it helped the black guy because he was allowed to keep his job, but doesn't that also reinforce the notion that even if you're lazy and stupid, you don't have to try harder because they still won't fire you owing to your skin color? And ultimately, in the long run, doesn't that hurt the black guy more than help him?

I think the goals of affirmative action (helping those who are inherently disadvantaged, increasing diversity, etc.) are laudable, but that's not the way to go about bringing such change, in my opinion.

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Originally posted by riffdaddy



Yeah, it might be different in blue states. In red states, the N word gets tossed around as if it were still socially acceptable. A few months back I overheard a 30-something woman say something to the effect of, "I'm around black people enough at work. Why should I have to be around them at church?" She said it in the middle of a crowded restaurant. Loudly. Nobody winced but me.


With attitudes like this so prevalent in middle America, how can we afford not to have affirmative action?

 

 

Wow... I've never been around that! It's usually much more subtle and "boys room"... You know, in that malicious passive-agressive way only the upper-middle class can really pull off with gusto.

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Originally posted by riffdaddy



Yeah, it might be different in blue states. In red states, the N word gets tossed around as if it were still socially acceptable.

 

 

Dude, you are making some sweeping generalizations and bigtime stereotypes.

 

I'm not sure why you felt the need to politicize this. Massachussetts is a blue state, right? Because the most racist people I've ever known have come from Boston.

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Originally posted by Mr. Twang

Most of the successful black people I know are rather embarrassed to think that they got where they are in life because of affirmative action.


The last company where I worked had a final round of layoffs one time, and they had to choose between a black guy and white guy. They let the white guy go and kept the black guy, even though he (black guy) was grossly incompetent and lacked motivation. I'm not sure how that really helped anyone. I guess it helped the black guy because he was allowed to keep his job, but doesn't that also reinforce the notion that even if you're lazy and stupid, you don't have to try harder because the still won't fire you owing to your shin color? And ultimately, in the long run, doesn't that hurt the black guy more than help him?


I think the goals of affirmative action (helping those who are inherently disadvantaged, increasing diversity, etc.) are laudable, but that's not the way to go about bringing such change, in my opinion.



The system is obviously flawed. A society that takes no measures to correct a major social inequity (i.e. blacks or women not being hired) is quite a bit worse. Affecting larger social change to the point where such policies are unnecessary is obviously the ideal for which we are aiming, but we ain't there yet broseph. Until we are, I think it would be much better to have a flawed system in place rather than leave the black (and Indian, middle eastern, etc.) community at such a major disadvantage, which would create an even stronger tie between skin color and economic plight.

Like I said, we need this. Trust me. :)

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Originally posted by SkoolHouseRox



That's a nice thought, but I don't believe it. I'm not saying you are lying or an idiot, just that you are maybe a little sheltered.

 

 

 

No, he isn't an idiot because he qualified what he said by mentioning "outward apperance and income level".

 

 

Guess what that means in the real world?

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Originally posted by riffdaddy



The system is obviously flawed. A society that takes no measures to correct a major social inequity (i.e. blacks or women not being hired) is quite a bit worse. Affecting larger social change to the point where such policies are unnecessary is obviously the ideal for which we are aiming, but we ain't there yet broseph. Until we are, I think it would be much better to have a flawed system in place rather than leave the black (and Indian, middle eastern, etc.) community at such a major disadvantage, which would create an even stronger tie between skin color and economic plight.


Like I said, we need this. Trust me.
:)



But the current system does nothing but promote laziness, incompetence, and apathy, thus causing harm for everyone. I

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at just about any point where we institute the government to take care of something this we see a waste of funds that negatively affects the economogy & a absolute inefficiency in the programs workings... bureacrats head up these programs and are no doubt more interested in having a platform to stand on then actually getting something done about this stuff...
the more govt. the more tax $ we spend, the more liberties we give up...

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Affirmative action just promotes racism. Racism will never end. Certain people are the way they are, and it will never go away. And things like affirmative action just make them even more hateful. Everyone just needs to accept that in the end, everyone is stupid and that will never change. Not saying you shouldn't strive for something better, but don't do it thinking world peace is ever realistically going to happen.

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Originally posted by riffdaddy



Perhaps it's different in New York (though I kind of doubt it), but here in Kansas, many small business owners who don't have a large enough corporation to have to follow federal regulations don't hire blacks. At all. Not even to mow the lawn (no, I'm not exaggerating about this in the slightest). Without regulation, I doubt this practice would be restricted to small business.


Until racism is bred out of the ownership class in this country, we need something in place to insure that minorities receive fair opportunities for work and education.

 

 

In my line of work anyone contracting with the state has to fill out and sign the civil rights compliance form annually if they have 15 or more employees. So yeah. If your small you can do what you want. The agencies that are currently fighting it and site federal regs as justification for not having to adhere to the guidelines are faith based agencies motivated by religious belief rather then race. Which is intresting but understandable. Not many organizations will openly cop to being racist; their is to much to lose not to comply. Faith based organizations are different though.

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Originally posted by Mr. Twang



Dude, you are making some sweeping generalizations and bigtime stereotypes.


I'm not sure why you felt the need to politicize this. Massachussetts is a blue state, right? Because the most racist people I've ever known have come from Boston.

 

 

I don't think it's necessarily a line of delineation based on political alliance. I do, however, believe that the socially conservative mindset that is present in many (if not all) traditionally red states breeds a sense of racial superiority. I won't attach it directly to political affiliation or religion, but I don't think they're entirely seperate either. I've seen the damndest things living here. Every once in a while I see something new that amazes me, even after being here all these years. Racism is alive and well in this country, and we have to defeat it in any and every way we can think of.

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Originally posted by riffdaddy



Racism is alive and well in this country, and we have to defeat it in any and every way we can think of.

 

 

I agree 100%, but affirmative action is not the way to go about it in my opinion because it does more harm than good.

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