OT: NJ smoking ban this weekend...surprise!

[henk]

Smoking is the hot topic today. Threads on the same subject are all over HC (OJ/AF/EF). Did I miss something or is everybody on a smoker shooting picnic?

[gil1]

The science disagrees with you.

Secondhand smoke is a hazard.

Thankfully non-smokers don't have to rely on the graces of smokers to decide what is an acceptable amount for strangers to poison other people.

Which is what we have laws for.

To keep the thoughtless from endangering the reasonable.

[opultaM]

Leaving work early so i can get a coffee and cream stout and sit with a cigarette.

Maybe a cigar tonight.



And for the record, I'm for the smoking ban. I don't like the 25 ffot thing though

[Guest Anonymous]

well thank god i broke my jaw,nose and lost four teeth .during that time i couldnt smoke and ended up quiting.

[gil1]

Yea, the 25 ft thing could be a good area of comprimise. Just let people go outside, that's OK.

[stratmaster48]

that is weak as hell...i would be pissed if i was drunk as hell and someone just came out of nowhere and arrested me

[preservation]

of course smokers don't think 2nd hand smoke is a problem.
i hate the crap.

dear smokers,

you all smell terrible, and you don't even know it.

cheers !

clock

[ChitownTerror]

Here's a solution-- why not sell smoking licences, the way you do with booze? If you wanted to run a smoking bar you could run it as such. If you didn't want to have smoke, then go to a bar without the licence.

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by dot-dot-dot Threads like this always go the same way; on one side you have people who don't want others' activities to impact on them, and on the other side you have drug addicts and people who like to call other people nazis.

 

 

That's exactly what the Nazis said--"we dont want the Jews activities to impact on us." And they had tons of science to back that up. You're ALREADY FREE to avoid smokers or open a non-smoking bar. You're LYING if you say you want to be free. You want to IMPOSE YOUR WAY on others by force of law, and that's why you're a SMOKE NAZI.

 

You don't respect other peoples choices? Fine. Good luck getting an abortion. Good luck living gay. Good luck practicing your religion. Good luck putting an addition on your house. Good luck keeping the money you earn. Good luck finding a good school for your kids. WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR BODY, YOUR PROPERTY, YOUR MONEY AND YOUR CHILDREN! YOU WILL DO WHAT WE SAY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! You cannot be trusted with CHOICES!

 

Are you more SCARED to see FREE MEN or more SCARED of your own FREEDOM? Either way I'm laughing at you. You must be told what to think and given rules, or you're a lost little lamb.

[hoerni]

Originally posted by Gristlefist That's exactly what the Nazis said--"we dont want the Jews activities to impact on us." And they had tons of science to back that up. You're ALREADY FREE to avoid smokers or open a non-smoking bar. You're LYING if you say you want to be free. You want to IMPOSE YOUR WAY on others by force of law, and that's why you're a SMOKE NAZI. You don't respect other peoples choices? Fine. Good luck getting an abortion. Good luck living gay. Good luck practicing your religion. Good luck putting an addition on your house. Good luck keeping the money you earn. Good luck finding a good school for your kids. WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR BODY, YOUR PROPERTY, YOUR MONEY AND YOUR CHILDREN! YOU WILL DO WHAT WE SAY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! You cannot be trusted with CHOICES! Are you more SCARED to see FREE MEN or more SCARED of your own FREEDOM? Either way I'm laughing at you. You must be told what to think and given rules, or you're a lost little lamb.

 

 

Best.... Troll... Post... Ever!

 

11 posts? So who are you really?

[Passerby]

Originally posted by hoerni Best.... Troll... Post... Ever! 11 posts? So who are you really?

 

 

Psst... he's spot on.

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by hoerni Best.... Troll... Post... Ever! 11 posts? So who are you really?

 

 

Ah-ha! You're AFRAID to respond to the CONTENT!

[hoerni]

Originally posted by Gristlefist Ah-ha! You're AFRAID to respond to the CONTENT!

Nope, just didn't feel it was worth wasting my time on. I'll give you a few quick retorts if you like

You don't respect other peoples choices? Fine. Good luck getting an abortion.

Well, that's been better in the past 40 years than the previous centuries. W and Co want to repeal it, but that's the problem with the current administration, not government as a whole.

Good luck living gay.

Right, becuase it's so hard with all the openly gay people and several states offering civil unions. Gay's are probably less prosecuted now than any time in recent history

Good luck practicing your religion.

Again, problems with the current administration, but it's better than the past. School children are no longer forced to pray or worship god in school.

Good luck putting an addition on your house.

Want to sell your house someday? I'm sure the buyer would appreciate knowing things are up to code and not built like a Fab Amp.

Good luck keeping the money you earn.

Well with the current war against the estate tax, you'll be able to keep it longer than you should.

Good luck finding a good school for your kids.

Not sure what to say about this. Not even sure of your point.

WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR BODY, YOUR PROPERTY, YOUR MONEY AND YOUR CHILDREN! YOU WILL DO WHAT WE SAY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! You cannot be trusted with CHOICES!

Gee thanks! Now that you yelled it at me, I complete see you're point. :rolleyes: Give me a break.

[gil1]

It's just a ridiculus point.

All society has proper limitations on people's behaviour as it intersects other people.

That's what society is.

There's no reason to engage because the whole argument hinges on logical fallacies.

Attacking the Person.
Prejudicial Language.
False Analogy.
The Fallacy of too Broad a Definition.
Slippery Slope.

The whole post is nothing more than strung together catchphrases and fallacies.

Someone wants to smoke, they can do it OUTSIDE.

Can't drive on the sidewalk.
Can't {censored} in the street.
Can't screw in the street.
Can't yell fire in a theater.

Can put an addition on most houses.
Can practice your religion.
Can't force people to pray.
Can go to private schools if you want.

This Nazi namecalling is con-man troll horse{censored}.

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by gil1 All society has proper limitations on people's behaviour as it intersects other people.

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

If Joe is smoking in Yerkle's Bar, HOW DOES THAT INTERSECT WITH YOU? You don't have to go in! It's PRIVATE BEHAVIOR on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

 

Since you and Hoerni didn't get the connection: It's the same issue if Joe is smoking Yerkle in Yerkle's bedroom. It DOESN'T AFFECT YOU and it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

 

BUT NOOOOOOOOO . . . . You have to SAVE Joe from making his own CHOICES! You have to use the law and the police to force other people to be like you! Man, that is selfish--downright NARCISSISTIC.

 

If you want your CHOICE about things that are important to you, you have to TOLLERATE other people having CHOICE about things that are important to them. If you can't, then there's a word for that, let's see, what was it . . . spreken zie NAZI?

[gil1]

Any business that is open to the public has rules which are directly connected to them owning a business that serves the public.

Can't serve tainted meat.
Can't let people {censored} in the dinning room.
Can't wash the glasses in piss.

Public business, sanitation and safety rules.

No {censored}ing big deal. Not Nazism.

Common public health and safety issues.

You can't {censored} in your front yard, either, if it's within a certain distance of other people.

Anyone who thinks differently can leave society and go live in the woods.

NO ONE'S FORCING YOU TO LIVE HERE.
YOU CAN LEAVE ANYTIME YOU WANT

[Guitar George]

OK although I don't have the time to read this entire post I will put in my 2 cents anyway.

As the government alienates every hostile Moslem on the planet the fact that there is no secondary smoke in bars sure gives me that warm fuzzy feeling and makes me feel so much safer.

Talk about a smoke screen! It's ok for them to make money off the cancer sticks but not ok to actually smoke them anywhere? What a bunch of lying scumbags.

OK so anybody want to predict what Big Brother goes after next?

Let's review what already has been targeted
1. Drinking -Dwi
2. Drugs - always because it's a CIA revenue source.
3. Smoking -
4. Income- tax penalty for making money only illegals don't have to pay.


I bet they go after Ebay/Paypal/ pedal trading/ internet usage and forums tax.


How about a per pedal tax just because.
That's right you posted pics of your boards so big bro knows!

[gil1]

When I was younger, DWI was common.

Drinking and driving was an activity. And it was fun.

Untill that person who isn't drinking and driving gets killed. Fun stops for both people.

If someone wants to drink at home, let them.
Wants to do drugs, I say let them, too. At home.
Be gay, get married. No harm to anyone.
All these are private activities.

Drink and drive - that has an intersection with the public.

Get high and drive - that has an intersection with the public.

Smoking in a public establishlishment - that has an intersection with the public.

And we rightfully have some limits on the activities of people in public establishments.

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by gil1 Anyone who thinks differently can leave society and go live in the woods.

 

 

There's that NARCISSISM again! You speak for "society"? How generous and courageous of you! I thought living in society required TOLLERATION for others CHOICES but I guess I was wrong, it requires forcing others to be like you, because you're always right.

 

Every NAZI who wants to take away another's CHOICE calls it a problem of "public health". The Jewish problem was a problem of "public health." Gays are a threat to "public health." Check back a few posts and you will see that I PREDICTED your response:

 

 

Originally posted by gristlefist There's always a self-righteous excuse for these creeps to take away your choices for your own good.

 

 

Originally posted by gristlefist WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR BODY, YOUR PROPERTY, YOUR MONEY AND YOUR CHILDREN! YOU WILL DO WHAT WE SAY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! You cannot be trusted with CHOICES!

 

 

If you can't tell the difference between first or second hand smoke and {censored} on a plate, I'm not eating at your house. The first is something many people willingly CHOOSE and the second isn't. The problem isn't "public health", the problem is that you won't respect the CHOICES of others. That is what psychologists call a "lack of boundaries," one of many signs of NARCISSISM.

 

And you still can't answer the question: "If Joe is smoking in Yerkle's Bar, HOW DOES THAT INTERSECT WITH YOU? You don't have to go in! It's PRIVATE BEHAVIOR on PRIVATE PROPERTY."

[gil1]

Originally posted by Gristlefist Every NAZI who wants to take away another's CHOICE calls it a problem of "public health". The Jewish problem was a problem of "public health." Gays are a threat to "public health."

 

 

There's that NARSISISM again! Clearly you think your right to poison people in public places is the same as millions of dead Jewish people.

 

How self-centered of you! Your "right" to enjoy a smoke at the expense of other people is the same to you as the people being burned to death. You are clearly mentally ill.

 

 

If you can't tell the difference between first or second hand smoke and {censored} on a plate, I'm not eating at your house.

 

 

In both cases {censored} and secondhand smoke are disgusting, and in both cases it is unhealthy to be exposed to other people's {censored} or second hand smoke.

 

The problem is you won't respect the health and safety of other people. That is what psychologists call a "lack of boundaries," one of many signs of NARCISSISM.

 

But of course you have to poison the air in a public establishment.

 

No one's forcing you or anyone else to smoke.

Or open a public business as a bar.

 

And if you want to smoke, you don't have to go into a bar. No ones making you.

 

You seem to have problems taking responsability for your own choices. You want to smoke and force others to deal with it, and to take away other people's freedom to be in pubic places. Just like you pro-smoking NAZIS.

[Gristlefist]

Gil1, you're cracking up, man.

I'll ask again: "If Joe is smoking in Yerkle's Bar, HOW DOES THAT INTERSECT WITH YOU? You don't have to go in! It's PRIVATE BEHAVIOR on PRIVATE PROPERTY."

You just don't understand the difference between PUBLIC and PRIVATE. There's that lack of boundaries.

And you just don't understand that other people can disagree with your ideas, like your ideas about what is "poison" and what isn't. There's that Narcisism. See, they can make their own CHOICES. Millions and millions of em, making choices about their own lives and not caring what you and people like you are thinking.

But thanks for illustrating that my arguments don't work if you just flip them around the other way.

[gil1]

Originally posted by Gristlefist Gil1, you're cracking up, man. I'll ask again: "If Joe is smoking in Yerkle's Bar, HOW DOES THAT INTERSECT WITH YOU? You don't have to go in! It's PRIVATE BEHAVIOR on PRIVATE PROPERTY." You just don't understand the difference between PUBLIC and PRIVATE. There's that lack of boundaries. But thanks for illustrating that my arguments don't work if you just flip them around the other way.

Oh. no. please - you're cracking me up.
You're the most redundant troll ever.

And the arguments work perfectly flipped.

Nice try though on the fake confidence thing.

To repeat:
Any business that is open to the public have health and safety rules which are directly connected to them owning a business that serves the public.

Can't serve tainted meat.
Can't let people {censored} in the dinning room.
Can't wash the glasses in piss.
Can't expose people to toxins.

Bars are public establishments, so they have some limitations on thier activities that fully private property doesn't have. It's the deal a bar owner makes to go in to business. BECAUSE IT"S A PUBIC ESTABLISHMENT.

And with that I'm off the troll train.

Go a head now and babble about how I won't stay and fight, I know I've lost, blab, blab.

See, I predicted your response

[Gristlefist]

Pretty good on the endurance, gil1, although you got a little hysterical on those last two posts, and you didn't face up to the question.

If you want to be free, you have to tollerate freedom for others. That means freedom for others to make their own decisions about their bodies, their beliefs and their property, especially when it has no effect on you. Be an adult and let others be adults. Either you don't want freedom, which would be pathetic, or you haven

[oversight]

Don't get me wrong, I don't smoke and I really don't like the smell, but I'm not about to start cheering and clapping when we pass laws prohibiting things we find annoying. If it physically harms my person or property, sure, but an annoyance? No thanks.

Oh...and free market and all that jazz. Rather than get the government to outlaw what peeves you, push for establishments that cater to people like you, or start your own. If there's a demand for it, the market will adjust. No need for spewing rhetoric and passing laws.

It's easy to shrug and say, "I don't smoke" or, "They can just go outside...no big deal," but that ignores the bigger picture. When we allow the government to control petty, non-threatening things like this, we open ourselves up to all sorts of new controls. And no, I'm not sitting here with my tinfoil hat on (it's on the coat rack).

[Ineedapseudonym]

To be honest, I have a problem with a lot of things that have been said in this thread. The way I see it, it's not necessary that every bar has to allow smoking. However, not every bar should have to ban it either. I'd appreciate a medium, wherein there are some of each. However, apparently, that's been lost as an option.

I try not to blow smoke in the faces of others. It's not pleasant. Even if you are a smoker. Workplaces are fair game, I agree.