Anybody signed to an Indie label? How does it work?

[Woody777]

Seems like an Indie Label is kind of an oxymoron... Anybody have any experience, I'm very curious.

[CicadaSilence]

STEP 1: Sign to an indie label.
STEP 2: ???
STEP 3: Profit (?)

[angus_old]

indie = not owned by sony

[ChitownTerror]

The label I'm on is pretty much a front for a DIY operation. It's more of a consolidation of resources for a bunch of like-minded musicians in my part of Chicago. So, I'm probably not much help.

But I do know that most of the bands I play with who are signed are signed because they a) are decent and show they can move a certain amount of set, self-financed units and b) they know somebody.

So, make connections and sell your demo.

Or start your own label. That's another way to do it.

[voerking]

yes. it works in the way most business arrangements work....poorly.
i kid.
my experiences have all been with friends who wanted be a part of the music making process & were better at business type stuff than actually playing music. they start the labels & help their friends put out records.
that's how pretty much all indie labels start (unless it's an artist run label).
the bigger they get, the more business-oriented they become (out of necessity...more money at stake, employees to pay, etc).
the label my band is on now is a pretty ideal situation. it's a smaller subsidiary of a larger manufacturing and distribution company. so i have to deal with exactly ONE person at our label, but there is a whole worldwide distro network at my disposal. kickass.
if you are asking "how do i get signed to an indie?"...it sort of runs contrary to the whole DIY ethic that brought about the advent of indie labels in the first place, but feel free to send out a lot of demos that no one will ever listen to.
make friends with the people involved in your local music scene. be a real band. tour. put out your own records. bigger indie labels will be a lot more inclined to work with you if they see that you are willing to work as hard as they are.
questions?

[Mel Cooley]

With indies it really depends on the label. They may provide a small recording budget or merely offer distribution or (hopefully) promotion. The (now defunct) Upstart and Hightone usually offer(ed) about 3K for recording expenses. That's just enough to get a decent "live in the studio" recording.

[percyexpat]

Originally posted by Mel Cooley With indies it really depends on the label. They may provide a small recording budget or merely offer distribution or (hopefully) promotion. The (now defunct) Upstart and Hightone usually offer(ed) about 3K for recording expenses. That's just enough to get a decent "live in the studio" recording.

 

 

depends what sort of artist you are as well though. recording a singer-songwriter with just a guitar maybe some basic drums and vocals that can be done on a shoestring budget. once you get electric guitars, big drumsets and high tech stuff in the mix its gonna take a lot more.

[Mel Cooley]

Originally posted by percyexpat depends what sort of artist you are as well though. recording a singer-songwriter with just a guitar maybe some basic drums and vocals that can be done on a shoestring budget. once you get electric guitars, big drumsets and high tech stuff in the mix its gonna take a lot more.

 

 

I was referring to deals cut for both Redd Volkaert's and Bill Kirchen's bands and The Vidalias. Full bands! Nobody said the label will cover the full cost of recording. However, the above listed bands are good live acts and don't do alot of overdubbing, etc.

[opultaM]

Don't expect too much. But that's not a bad thing. It just means YOU have to do a lot of work. It still comes down to pushing yourself as much as possible. Networking, playing as much as possible, GETTIng STUFF DONE. If you guys have a strong work ethic, then an Indie may be able to help fill in the areas that you can't reach. But if you expect a contract to mean you're all set, it's not gonna happen.

I guess look at an Indie label as an extension of your own promoting efforts. It's a tool in your arsenal, not a free ride.

[drmanbear]

Originally posted by voerking the label my band is on now is a pretty ideal situation. it's a smaller subsidiary of a larger manufacturing and distribution company. so i have to deal with exactly ONE person at our label, but there is a whole worldwide distro network at my disposal. kickass.

 

 

 

I'm in the same situation. We got very lucky, but we worked hard for 5 years to be in a position like this.

[Woody777]

Cool... thanks for the feedback.

Do Indie labels operate the same as major labels? If they fund your recording, do you pay them back with album sales? How do they help you promote/market your band?

[Mel Cooley]

Originally posted by Woody777 Cool... thanks for the feedback. Do Indie labels operate the same as major labels? If they fund your recording, do you pay them back with album sales? How do they help you promote/market your band?

 

 

Majors are a bit different. Their primary concern is business and moving product. If the guy that signs you leaves the label you likely won't have anyone pulling for you in a huge company and you'll become "lost". At an indie most people at the office are familiar with your work. Yes you pay them back with sales. I think it's still 500,000 to be considered profitable. They have whole divisions that are set up to promote and market their clients. However, there's rarely a guarantee of how much promotion you'll be given. Your video (which is the new "single" as it's the main promo piece these days and alot more expensive to produce) will likely be charged directly to the band. That can leave you a few million in debt right from the start. If the promo people decide to focus on some other artist and not push you as much it's your problem. The usual major deal these days is one CD/album, whatever you wanna call it (in the late '70s/early '80s it was still 3 albums). That's perfect because you have your whole life to make your first album, which is what gets you signed. If they think you stink then they can drop you. If they like you then you usually get 11 months to make album #2 (which is where the "sophomore slump" term gets applied to the music biz). The label can generally drop you for whatever reason whenever they want. There was a local band called Mother May I that was signed to Columbia in the post Nirvana signing frenzy in the early '90s. They were dropped in the middle of a European tour and had to find their own way to ship their {censored} and themselves home. I'm hoping such dinosaurs are becoming a thing of the past.

[percyexpat]

Originally posted by Mel Cooley They were dropped in the middle of a European tour and had to find their own way to ship their {censored} and themselves home. I'm hoping such dinosaurs are becoming a thing of the past.

 

 

i think this happened to a band called the moving units while they were touring in japan a year or so ago.

 

on the plus side its getting ever more possible to do it all yourself. its still extremely hard work im sure but its all still possible.

 

personally i dont see why people sign to majors while theyre unestablished bands. huge bands can set their own terms but for most artists youre just corporate rape fodder!

[Woody777]

Originally posted by Mel Cooley Majors are a bit different. Their primary concern is business and moving product. If the guy that signs you leaves the label you likely won't have anyone pulling for you in a huge company and you'll become "lost". At an indie most people at the office are familiar with your work. Yes you pay them back with sales. I think it's still 500,000 to be considered profitable. They have whole divisions that are set up to promote and market their clients. However, there's rarely a guarantee of how much promotion you'll be given. Your video (which is the new "single" as it's the main promo piece these days and alot more expensive to produce) will likely be charged directly to the band. That can leave you a few million in debt right from the start. If the promo people decide to focus on some other artist and not push you as much it's your problem. The usual major deal these days is one CD/album, whatever you wanna call it (in the late '70s/early '80s it was still 3 albums). That's perfect because you have your whole life to make your first album, which is what gets you signed. If they think you stink then they can drop you. If they like you then you usually get 11 months to make album #2 (which is where the "sophomore slump" term gets applied to the music biz). The label can generally drop you for whatever reason whenever they want. There was a local band called Mother May I that was signed to Columbia in the post Nirvana signing frenzy in the early '90s. They were dropped in the middle of a European tour and had to find their own way to ship their {censored} and themselves home. I'm hoping such dinosaurs are becoming a thing of the past.

 

 

That's scary... so, really how does an Indie label differ?

[ChitownTerror]

Originally posted by Woody777 That's scary... so, really how does an Indie label differ?

 

 

Because you're already responsible for most everything yourself and fronting the money anyway. Labels are experts at charging you for things you didn't ask for (promotion, riders, tour equipment, etc.), plus a lot of the time, they'll own your master tapes.

 

I honestly think the best thing, if you can swing it, is to release your own recordings.

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by ChitownTerror Because you're already responsible for most everything yourself and fronting the money anyway. Labels are experts at charging you for things you didn't ask for (promotion, riders, tour equipment, etc.), plus a lot of the time, they'll own your master tapes. I honestly think the best thing, if you can swing it, is to release your own recordings.

 

 

so you're saying that in most cases the artist is footing the bill on indie releases (i.e. paying for studio time, engineer, etc.)?

 

this isn't true of major indie labels like Southern, K, and Matador, is it? i'm assuming you're referring more to DIY outfits?

[ChitownTerror]

Originally posted by GuyaGuy so you're saying that in most cases the artist is footing the bill on indie releases (i.e. paying for studio time, engineer, etc.)? this isn't true of major indie labels like Southern, K, and Matador, is it? i'm assuming you're referring more to DIY outfits?

Eventually, the artist almost always foots the bill, whether it's being taken out of your royalties or not. Advances are not grants, they're loans.

But, yeah, I'm refering to more DIY stuff. I've heard that the bigger indies are better about this, but I also know pleanty of bands who got screwed by their contracts and funny accounting by "friendlier" indie labels.

[GuyaGuy]

right, i was referring to the intial costs...


hmm...
Mel Cooley indicates that an album has to sell 500,000 to be considered progitable. i can't imagine this being true of indie records, as a record that sells 500,000 would be somewhat of a hit in indieland, no?

[Esperanto]

I've had a few friends on indie labels

Depends on the people at the label. Can they help you meet people and make connections? Can they help push you in the right direction? Do they actually care about you? Are they just hacks {censored}ing around with a little bit of somebody else's money?

The biggest disappointment I found from my friends is that they got fronted seemingly very little money to work with..and then didn't have full control over their material. Probably would have done better to just come up with the money themselves..on credit cards or whatever.

One guy I know that was signed to a small indie label out of So Cal used the connections he made to "jump ship" and ended up in a bigger and better band. That particular guy is now a millionaire rock star you're all probably familiar with..

Anyhow, point is, like anything its good and bad. Just part of the experience.

[Fourth Floor]

I'm on an indie label. It's almost ideal for the moment.
We get the clout of their marketing department. They funded some of our costs but not so much we owe them a lot. But we own all our masters. So we can either do a deal with them for our back catalog or up and take our entire catalog to a major. And this deal lets us sell a few thousand and be considered successful, get in the eyes of a bigger label and then sell out. and sell lots more copies of the next release etc. Thye let us do what we want and we repay them by working the record as hard as we can.

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by Fourth Floor I'm on an indie label. It's almost ideal for the moment. We get the clout of their marketing department. They funded some of our costs but not so much we owe them a lot. But we own all our masters. So we can either do a deal with them for our back catalog or up and take our entire catalog to a major. And this deal lets us sell a few thousand and be considered successful, get in the eyes of a bigger label and then sell out. and sell lots more copies of the next release etc. Thye let us do what we want and we repay them by working the record as hard as we can.

so from the indication i'm getting from you, you don't at all feel like you have financial pressure on you--no big recording bills to pay back or the need to sell X number of copies to make it "worth their while." prolly a good place to be.

just out of curiosity...does the label organize things like your tours, interviews, etc. or do you have a manger/agent for that?

[Fourth Floor]

Originally posted by GuyaGuy so from the indication i'm getting from you, you don't at all feel like you have financial pressure on you--no big recording bills to pay back or the need to sell X number of copies to make it "worth their while." prolly a good place to be. just out of curiosity...does the label organize things like your tours, interviews, etc. or do you have a manger/agent for that?

 

 

Yup. No financial pressure at all. We probably only need to shift 1000 copies (I think presales were 4-500) to break even and then we split profit with label.

 

On the second one, a bit of both. Label organsises interviews and promo stuff (instores etc) or they can go through the manager who for the time being is acting as booking agent too. Last agent fell through recently.

 

The people at the label really like the music, believe in it and have an awareness that with the type of music it is that they can work this album for around 12 months before they're done with it (i.e. first single in feb, second in may, third in august probably with tours for each).

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by Fourth Floor Yup. No financial pressure at all. We probably only need to shift 1000 copies (I think presales were 4-500) to break even and then we split profit with label. On the second one, a bit of both. Label organsises interviews and promo stuff (instores etc) or they can go through the manager who for the time being is acting as booking agent too. Last agent fell through recently. The people at the label really like the music, believe in it and have an awareness that with the type of music it is that they can work this album for around 12 months before they're done with it (i.e. first single in feb, second in may, third in august probably with tours for each).

sounds like youre on the right track!

that's one really good thing about indie labels--that they are far more likely to be "really like the music [and] believe in it." your band isn't in a sink or swim position. and some labels will keep bands around even if they're not moving CDs--just because they dig the music! *gasp!*

just a thousand? hm...i expected a lower figure than the 500.000 mentioned above but didn't expect it that low. of course some labels are little more than one guy and his secretary so that keeps your overhead down.

[BlurryBoy 13]

Steve Albini's The Problem With Music

Big rant thing that is funny/horrifying.

I once read somewhere that the difference between major and indie labels is with indie labels you can probably get a hold of the person who is screwing you...

I keed. I keed.




I read some other thing that said John Cale or someone made way more money off their drag city releases than they did on their major label ones because of the more direct no b.s. accounting thing...

I think Touch and Go is a 50/50 split down the middle as are some other ones...

[Bunny Manfurr]

Originally posted by Woody777 Seems like an Indie Label is kind of an oxymoron... Anybody have any experience, I'm very curious.

 

 

It's helpful. The press and college radio will take you more seriously and you're more likely to get your album reviewed.

 

It also helps if the label you're on has at least a few somewhat known artists.

 

The label we're on handles the solo projects for Marty Wilson Piper (The Church) and David J. (Bauhaus and Love & Rockets) as well as a few surf guitar legends. Not household names, but folks most press folks and bookers have heard of.

 

Of course there's distribution and all that good stuff. If you can get some money for recording costs, all the better.