Members itzSommyJr Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hey all...I'm currently running a stereo setup with a Fender Twin on one side, and a Peavey Triple XXX on the other side. My pedal board is pretty massive, and at present, I'm running a Vox wah into a Boss SD-1 into an EHX Polychorus out front -- the Polychorus splits the signal. One one side of the split, the signal goes to a Boss DD-5, and then to the Twin. On the other side, the signal goes straight into the XXX, and then out to the FX loop -- an Ernie Ball VP Jr, a Boss PH-3, another DD-5, an EHX Holy Grail, and back to the amp. Now, most of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "You're having tone suckage problems? No {censored}." It's not quite that simple -- all I'm looking for is to clean up the signal to my Twin. I miss that sparkle when I plug in direct. The problem is, I've tried splitting the signal directly in front of the amp (so that the only amp running any FX is the XXX) with a Morley A/B splitter and I still have plenty of signal loss and white noise. What gives? I can only figure that because the two amps are linked by the splitter (and the XXX is loaded with FX), the signal to the Twin is somehow being loaded by the signal to the XXX. Anyone know how I can prevent this? Would a good pedal power unit help this? A power conditioned surge protector (I will admit, I'm using my Boss Tuner to power all my Boss pedals as well as the Vox wah with one of those One-Spot 9V adapters)? I want a second opinion before I throw down money on any of these things. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Come on, anyone? Bueller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mumford Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Get a Super Hard On or something similar and put it just on the Twin side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members inscho Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 where are putting the a/b? to keep the signal clean..it would need to be ran first with A going through the pedalboard to the peavey and B going directly to the fender...if there is still noise then you may need a better a/b...I have heard the morleys can have some affects on your tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yarmo Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I don't use a 2 amp setup but seems to me the major tone suckage comes from your pedals. Not one of them is TB(aside maybe the PolyC; then again, you're using it to split the signal) and I know the boss DD-5 sucks the blankets in your a-hole hard. You could either use a TB strip for all the pedals in front or a good buffer at the end of the Twin chain. A lot of buffer type pedals are available. I've been using a zvex Super Hard On with excellent results. I'm sure someone can come in here to help you out more then I can.. Good Luck! y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheToneGestapo Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 So you have: Vox Wah | SD-1 | Poly Chorus | | DD-5 XXX | Twin Does the Twin's tone improve when you unplug the xxx from the Ehx? Does this problem occur when the chorus is on? Splitters can cause problems with tone. Break it down. Start by plugging strat into the Twin, then add the sd-1 and dd5. Listen for changes in tone. Add the wah, then the chorus. Then add the xxx to the chorus and see if that affects anything. Vox wahs are tone killers also, unless it's been converted to true bypass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Seems to me it could be related to the fact that you've got 2 amps that aren't isolated from one another; they are directly connected via the chorus. I tried to do a similar thing one time, I had an ABY with clean on one side and dirt on the other. The ABY, being not completely isolated A vs. B, had all sorts of "crosstalk" from the dirt side over to the clean side. I bet if you used some sort of amp switcher (I'm thinking of the Lehle, but I'm sure there are others), you'd solve a lot of your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by hbar Seems to me it could be related to the fact that you've got 2 amps that aren't isolated from one another; they are directly connected via the chorus. I tried to do a similar thing one time, I had an ABY with clean on one side and dirt on the other. The ABY, being not completely isolated A vs. B, had all sorts of "crosstalk" from the dirt side over to the clean side.I bet if you used some sort of amp switcher (I'm thinking of the Lehle, but I'm sure there are others), you'd solve a lot of your problems. This seemed like the most likely problem to me, at least given the experiments I've done with my setup thus far -- and it's too bad, because I really love the sound of that Polychorus split... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 I noticed the Super Hard-On has two outputs -- would it help to use one to split the signal instead of say, the Polychorus (I could always set up a separate loop for the FX for the Twin)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by itzSommyJr This seemed like the most likely problem to me, at least given the experiments I've done with my setup thus far -- and it's too bad, because I really love the sound of that Polychorus split... What you need, then, is an ABY with stereo inputs, buffers (to prevent loading effects) and isolated outputs, then a separate supply for any other pedals on the Twin side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot What you need, then, is an ABY with stereo inputs, buffers (to prevent loading effects) and isolated outputs, then a separate supply for any other pedals on the Twin side. This seems like a good solution -- any other recommendations for an ABY? I checked out the Lehle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Well, I'm shameless; it just so happens I make an isolated ABY with stereo inputs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot Well, I'm shameless; it just so happens I make an isolated ABY with stereo inputs... To your credit, you advised him what he might need w/o plugging your own product. Only upon further questioning did you spam yourself. But in the future.....KEEP IT IN THE SPAM THREAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juat Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 hello i don't understand what is the TONE SUCKAGE you guys are always saying about!! can anyoen please explain?? thank you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by hbar To your credit, you advised him what he might need w/o plugging your own product. Only upon further questioning did you spam yourself. But in the future.....KEEP IT IN THE SPAM THREAD. Sorry miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Juat hello i don't understand what is the TONE SUCKAGE you guys are always saying about!! can anyoen please explain?? thank you!!! Well, it's a vague term, but typically used to describe loss of volume or treble. Though I suppose it's just used to refer to any degredation in sound quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot Well, I'm shameless; it just so happens I make an isolated ABY with stereo inputs... Specs and price?I just discovered Startouch via a review of a Lehle switcher, and though their pedals aren't buffered, their A/B/1/2Y might suit my needs regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juat Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot Well, it's a vague term, but typically used to describe loss of volume or treble. Though I suppose it's just used to refer to any degredation in sound quality. thanks you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by itzSommyJr Specs and price?I just discovered Startouch via a review of a Lehle switcher, and though their pedals aren't buffered, their A/B/1/2Y might suit my needs regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Okay, one more question -- I emailed Startouch about their pedals, and the guy said that typically the pedals don't have isolated outputs, but he could build one. However, from the way he described the actual functioning of the pedal, he made it sound as though once both paths are activated, they would no longer be isolated. Is it possible to avoid hum if I almost always leave the Y path enabled, or am I doomed to a life of signal degradation? I would prefer to leave the Y path enabled and just use the volume pedal in my loop to control my XXX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Also, dot dot dot, do you have any idea how much shipping to the US would be with that pedal? I'm considering it, just not looking forward to paying 180-something $USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 15, 2006 Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 Originally posted by itzSommyJr Okay, one more question -- I emailed Startouch about their pedals, and the guy said that typically the pedals don't have isolated outputs, but he could build one. However, from the way he described the actual functioning of the pedal, he made it sound as though once both paths are activated, they would no longer be isolated.Is it possible to avoid hum if I almost always leave the Y path enabled, or am I doomed to a life of signal degradation? I would prefer to leave the Y path enabled and just use the volume pedal in my loop to control my XXX. Ah - I think I know how he's doing it. That method works fine for AB pedals, but as he says in Y mode you get a ground loop again. There are two ways to "properly" isolate an ABY; either you use a transformer (like mine and the Lehle units) or you can do something clever with op-amps, which is cheaper but I've not tried it. If you want a permanent Y then I could do you a ground isolation box for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itzSommyJr Posted June 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot If you want a permanent Y then I could do you a ground isolation box for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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