Members Mesa4x12er Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hey guys long time no see! Sorry the title is so vague but I don't know how to explain what exactly it is that I need heh. Anyways, basically I'm wondering if there is a device that can simplify my tap dancing on stage. I basically want something that'll make it so when i hit a button everything changes to this effect/channel and so forth. I only use a couple sounds. Dirty with no effects, dirty with effects (fx loop), clean with effects (fx loop), clean no effects. Preferably I'd like to have single buttons, one for each sound combination i need. I only use single pedals and this way I could turn on the pedals I need ahead of time, and then when i need them with say my dirty channel, I could hit that one button that'll switch my channel to the combination dirty (fx loop). I just play a lot of lead and I don't like having to time an effects off and a channel switch at the same time. Btw I use a 2 channel dual rectifier. Any help on this looping issue would be great. Thanks guys! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vince Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Sounds like you need a couple of true bypass loopers with added bells and whistles. Drop Dot-Doy-Dot a PM and I'm sure he'll be able to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrblackbat Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 +1. Dot does really nice work. Though seeing as you're in the states, the exchange rate may hurt you a touch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stompboxx Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Throw (financial) caution to the wind and get this, you will never need another switching system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 A MIDI setup will do everything you ask extremely well. You could get away with using the following bits: 1 - Behringer FCB10101 - Nobels MS-4 or Axess CRX41 - Nobels Alex or other remote controlled looper The Nobels Alex is a remote switchable loop which can be controlled by one of the channels of the MS-4 or Axess CRX-4. You would basically need to take your effects loop send and return into the Alex and then you can loop through your effects unit(s). The Alex is switched using one of the channel outputs of the MS-4 which will leave 3 channels free for switching channels on your amp. All the switching variations can then be programmed into the FCB1010 which is good quality and about as reasonably priced as you can get in a MIDI pedal board and easy to configure using software. This is basically how I have things setup at the moment but with more loops and it works extremely well. If you have any pre-amplifier effects you can of course just use another Alex looper to enable/bypass them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er Posted June 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 That sounds good, only problem being i heard the Dual rectifiers can't be channel switched through midi. Also does that unit add any kind of noise? btw thnks everyone for the replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 If you want complex programmability then the GigRig or a MIDI system (as already mentioned) are the way to go. I can do things like loops that also change amp channels, but not if you want one button to select pedals 2, 4 and 7, and another to select 1, 3 and 5 and a different channel, and yet another to select 1, 4 and 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er Posted June 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 no haha. I just need it to switch channel and be able bypass or use all effects in the loop. I would turn on pedals 1, 3, and 4 ahead of time and then just hit a button that changes a channel and used the loop. The hit another button that would say change channel and bypass loop. I just need those 4 combinations. dirty channel/bypass loopdirty channel/engage loopclean channel/bypass loopclean channel/engage loop The only thing i really want is 4 buttons that each do one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by Mesa4x12er That sounds good, only problem being i heard the Dual rectifiers can't be channel switched through midi. Also does that unit add any kind of noise? You're not controlling the amp using MIDI directly. The MS-4 or Axess basically have 4 internal relays and so when it receives certain MIDI program changes it pulls in certain relay combinations. The relays are output via a 1/4" socket which can be connected directly into most amplifiers external footswitch socket. But no matter how the Mesa's footswitch interfaces with the amp, the worst case scenario is that you'll have to make up your own custom cable to make the connection (most of the time it is stereo 1/4" amp side, 2 x mono 1/4" for the MS-4) but the MS-4 will still be able to switch your amps channels no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 That's programmability again - smaller scale, but same issues. Could be done easily enough with relays, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er Posted June 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot That's programmability again - smaller scale, but same issues. Could be done easily enough with relays, I think. Yeah I guess you're right since it's not a matter of just "switch channel / engage fx loop" it's" THIS channel and fx loop" I appreciate the help though! I was just searching some of your stuff. I'm sure at some point I'll need you to make something for me so don't go anywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hmm - it's just occurred to me that you'd also want each switch to disable the others. Something that I should look into, but never got around to yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er Posted June 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 are these midi systems intelligent? I was just thinking... Aside from a relay that triggers a channel switch... lets say i want to go from dirty with all effects to dirty no effects. Sure right here it sounds like a loop bypass or engage, but how would it know to keep the channel where it's at? Becuase if i was on clean that button in theory would have to trigger a channel switch... but if i'm already on the channel i want, what stops the trigger from changing the channel at the same time? Damn, now I have a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by Mesa4x12er are these midi systems intelligent? I was just thinking... Aside from a relay that triggers a channel switch... lets say i want to go from dirty with all effects to dirty no effects. Sure right here it sounds like a loop bypass or engage, but how would it know to keep the channel where it's at? Becuase if i was on clean that button in theory would have to trigger a channel switch... but if i'm already on the channel i want, what stops the trigger from changing the channel at the same time? Damn, now I have a headache. Assume the first 4 pedals of the controller are set up as: 1 - dirty channel/bypass loop 2 - dirty channel/engage loop 3 - clean channel/bypass loop 4 - clean channel/engage loop If you were on clean/uneffected and so had already selected pedal 3 and wanted to bring the effects in you would simply press pedal 4. This will pull in the effects looper as well as re-select the clean channel without dropout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er Posted June 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 I guess i'm just not used to channel switchers knowing which channel they are on, but rather just switching from one to the other. Time to start studying I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lanefair Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Ahem! http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1267932 Other than that, midi midi midi midi......MIDI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrCreep Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Since nobody's suggested it yet, and since I'm a loyal user... Try a Digitial Music Corp GCX switcher and Ground Control. the GCX will switch all your effects and take care of channel switching your amp. There's 8 loops on it, one will be needed for the channel switching, and one additional each for any other footswitch functions from your amp that you want it to control. Try finding an original Ground Control though. The GC Pros are huge and cumbersome. The originals are a perfect size and are all kinds of usable. They're pricey new, so try to go used. I typically see them in the HC Classifieds on a semi-regular basis. -Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gorgon90 Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 I use a Laney Babelswitch and a Rolls Midi Buddy for a pretty similar job replacing four foot switches controlling my Trace Elliot. It has four latching relays which work through two stereo (TSR or TRS - whichever it is) jacks. The footswitches on my amp work as follows: 1) From clean to dirty. 2) Alternates between dirty channels 2/3 (dirt/filth). 3) Volume 1 or 2 (rhythm or lead levels) 4) Reverb on/off Using the Babelswitch and Midi pedal, I hit a patch and it recalls the saved states of the relays and changes them if required. No dropout due to this unless your amp does it anyway when switching channels. The Babelswitch also has two loops built into it which can also be programmed to switch in and out in a patch. This is useful to me as my amp's fx loop isn't switchable so putting one or both of these in the amp's loop can give me that facility. I can't comment on noise/dropout from these yet as I'm in the process of sorting out my rig. I'm aiming to put a half space rack multi-fx in one loop for modulation/delay (Yamaha EMP100) and a Boss CS-2 in the other loop in front of the amp's preamp for a bit of compression. This way I'll leave the CS-2 on permanently in the rack and just switch it in and out as necessary. That's the plan anyway. If you have just two footswitches to replace (ie channel 1/2 and fx loop in/out) this would easily do the job as would the Nobels and other gear mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FLYING V 83 Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Here's my solution: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Narcosynthesis Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot Hmm - it's just occurred to me that you'd also want each switch to disable the others. Something that I should look into, but never got around to yet. I think it could be done pretty simply with two switches on the 'looper' board - channel and fx loop Basically a small footswitch for changing the amps channels, and a second switch to control a normal loop with all the pedals in it. There it would be easy to either hit one switch, or hit both at the same time for the four different 'patches' David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lanefair Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by FLYING V 83 Here's my solution: Yeah you've really avoided tap dancing by having ten footswitches! HA HA HA HA HA HA. Nice board though:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FLYING V 83 Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by Lanefair Yeah you've really avoided tap dancing by having ten footswitches!HA HA HA HA HA HA.Nice board though:( Switching is a breeze with the Looopers. I sing, play lead, and have no trouble hitting the switches now. To me, "tap dancing" is having to reach out or go across several pedals quickly. Don't have to do that with my rig anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by FLYING V 83 Switching is a breeze with the Looopers. I sing, play lead, and have no trouble hitting the switches now. To me, "tap dancing" is having to reach out or go across several pedals quickly. Don't have to do that with my rig anymore. How do you turn the Small Clone off at the same time as turning your OD on and switching to the drive channel of your amp without tap dancing? Paradise City intro would be a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FLYING V 83 Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by IvIark How do you turn the Small Clone off at the same time as turning your OD on and switching to the drive channel of your amp without tap dancing? Paradise City intro would be a bitch. Rarely use the gain channel on the amp (JCM900 2x12 combo). I run the amp's clean channel with the gain @ 3/4 giving me a basic crunch rhythm, then flavor that with pedals.Paradise City:Small Clone on (#1 on left strip)Hit that switch and #5 on right strip simultaneously and I switch to Small Clone off and Metal Planet on. Bingo.I have the trem next to the Clone to do the same thing with other songs. Phaser next to SCOD, stuff like that. Took me a while to think it out based on our 200+ song list, but I got it and it works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IvIark Posted June 28, 2006 Members Share Posted June 28, 2006 Originally posted by FLYING V 83 Small Clone on (#1 on left strip)Hit that switch and #5 on right strip simultaneously and I switch to Small Clone off and Metal Planet on. Bingo. Are they numbered in reverse? I can't see how you can hit 1 on the left strip and 5 on the right strip simultaneously if they're not. And there will always be tap dancing for people who do want to change amp channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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