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OT/ Body image in rock?


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No, it doesn't matter. My dad won't listen to Tom Petty because he's such an ugly mother{censored}er. Whether a guy's overweight doesn't affect my appreciation for the music. If the guy looks like he's going to die on stage--Meatloaf?, it might be a good idea for him to lose a few pounds, but it's not really that necessary. And to those who think that weight does matter, two words: Jerry {censored}ing Garcia. :D

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Well I always liked where Morrison went in the later Doors period ... he just kind of let himself go a bit when he realized that he had inadvertantly allowed himself to be pidgeonholed as an image machine ... people no longer listened to what he was saying and were fixated on his image - this happened to John Lydon also in the Sex Pistols.

Jim said {censored} it ... and drank and ate for a while until people were forced to apreciated the art again or {censored} right off.

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Originally posted by TIKIROCKER

What exactly are you saying here?

 

 

A bunch of things, I guess.

 

- Looks mattered long before MTV - rock'n'roll is a performing art. (Jimi's fashion sense was nearly as influential as his playing).

- Being insanely goodlooking can make up for being a talentless* douchebag partyboy, if you're the frontman.

- Being insanely talented can make up for having big sagging mantitties, if you're Captain Trips.

 

If forced, I'd probably listen to the Dead before the Doors.

 

*I'll admit this is an unfair characterization, but Morrison's talent had more to do with personal magnetism than e.g. lyrical content.

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Originally posted by utterhack



A bunch of things, I guess.


- Looks mattered long before MTV - rock'n'roll is a performing art. (Jimi's fashion sense was nearly as influential as his playing).

- Being insanely goodlooking can make up for being a talentless douchebag partyboy, if you're the frontman.

- Being insanely talented can make up for having big sagging mantitties, if you're Captain Trips.


If forced, I'd probably listen to the Dead before the Doors.

 

 

I think that's true certainly ... even Elvis was a perfect example of the early work of the image machine starting to crank itself up into the beast it has now become but it was on a vastly different scale back then ... in the 50's you still had people like Fats Domino and Bill Haley and many, many others who were beefy boys etc ... making music and being accepted in the wider community. I think we live currently in an age of complete plasticity in terms of talent vs image ---- there has never been a time like it in our history in terms of media blitz on image either.

 

The question is ... how do YOU feel about the initial question?

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Garcia was big.

Also, the guitarist from Deftones was obese, at least for a while. Don't forget the dude from Fear Factory, too... Metal seems to have a lot of fat dudes, I guess. The singer from Deftones pudged up badly for a while during White Pony, but he lost it all again last time I saw him doing Team Sleep. Oh yeah, Rob Zombie (used) to be a bit overweight too.

I guess you can count Jack Black when he's doing Tenacious D, but him being overweight helps since it's comedy driven music to begin with.

I think the thing is that, in rock, you CAN get away with being pudgy if you're dedicated enough. Being insanely obese is more likely to hurt you, but then again, as proven in this thread, you can overcome it if you're motivated enough.

All in all, yeah, people are shallow and base their thoughts of you by the exterior. But {censored} it, just get on stage and play mother{censored}er. :(

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Originally posted by capnbringdown

No, it doesn't matter. My dad won't listen to Tom Petty because he's such an ugly mother{censored}er. Whether a guy's overweight doesn't affect my appreciation for the music. If the guy looks like he's going to die on stage--Meatloaf?, it might be a good idea for him to lose a few pounds, but it's not really that necessary. And to those who think that weight does matter,

two words: Jerry {censored}ing Garcia.

thats three words :thu::p:D:love::wave:

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people don't like looking at fat people--
whether on or off stage.

but it's never affected my ability to enjoy a band's music, nor has it been the deciding factor in judging their music.

and, yes, pop music and image are almost synonymous. rock and roll is televised subversion.
to say that image means more now than it did is to forget the forgettable--everyone from Bobby Darrin to Enuff Znuff and hundereds of other bands that are the equivalent of today's Nickelback and Tee-Vee-mo.

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Originally posted by TIKIROCKER

Should it matter in rock music if somebody is overweight a few pounds or just full on overweight? Would you not listen to a band if you saw a photo and there was a fat guy or girl in it ... would that stop you from listening to the music before you even heard it? Would you not want a person who was overweight IN your band? Do you care, does it matter, should it matter?


In a world of such body consciousness and body image being shoved in yer face 24 hours a day I think it's stupidity ... I look back at some great rock n rollers who had some weight on them and they rocked harder than allot of sweet skinnies!


Leslie West is one such dude and Frank Black is clearly another. I'm no suggesting a backlash where we all go out and sponsor an obese person into our bands but I really think all this body consciousness in modern culture and music is for the birds quite frankly.


What are your thoughts?

 

 

Good topic TIKI. Should it matter? No. Does it matter? Yes. I am 6'5" and overweight. The next biggest guy in my band is 5'9" and about 150. Our drummer is about 5'6" and maybe 130. To be completely honest, I look like a goon on stage next to the other guys. I can understand that it is a distraction. It has been good motivation to start losing the weight, but even when its gone I'm still almost a foot taller than most of the band.

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Originally posted by KBN



Good topic TIKI. Should it matter? No. Does it matter? Yes. I am 6'5" and overweight. The next biggest guy in my band is 5'9" and about 150. Our drummer is about 5'6" and maybe 130. To be completely honest, I look like a goon on stage next to the other guys. I can understand that it is a distraction. It has been good motivation to start losing the weight, but even when its gone I'm still almost a foot taller than most of the band.

 

 

Well it shouldn't matter bro ... I mean lose the weight for yourself, for your own health and long term lifestyle but as far as anything else rock on! I don't think it should be considered a distraction that your huge compared to the other guys either ... I think these things are irrelevent and the music is where it's at ... but I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that it shouldn't matter but society has a sickness regarding body image that has swung so far in the opposite direction that perspective has been lost.

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Originally posted by capnbringdown

I still dont think it really matters. It's not like rock bands are primary composed of chicks.
:D



You'd be surprised how many male bands wouldn't let an overweight guy into the band ... don't kid yourself. ;)

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obesity is a big problem, in fact it is the new smoking, which will raise a whole bunch of issues. it is a good idea to encourage anyone who is carrying extra pounds to shed some weight, mainly for their longterm health.

but, talent is not correlated to weight in anyway. there are seriously overweight musicans who can play the pants off me.

if I was in a classic touring band situation, I would be concerned if someone's weight was effecting their stamina and ability to perform. but to be honest, I would be more worried if someone in the band had a serious drug habit or perennial money woes.

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Originally posted by fernmeister

obesity is a big problem, in fact it is the new smoking, which will raise a whole bunch of issues. it is a good idea to encourage anyone who is carrying extra pounds to shed some weight, mainly for their longterm health.


but, talent is not correlated to weight in anyway. there are seriously overweight musicans who can play the pants off me.


if I was in a classic touring band situation, I would be concerned if someone's weight was effecting their stamina and ability to perform. but to be honest, I would be more worried if someone in the band had a serious drug habit or perennial money woes.

 

 

Good post. Obesity is the new smoking. Agreed.

Uh, back to the original question. It obviously doesn't affect the music but it may affect whether you're successful or how successful you are. I'm sorry to be blunt but it will make a difference. It shouldn't but it will.

 

And it's not weight or any other 'problem' that will be the real issue but just the image overall. You can be chubby and attractive etc.

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Originally posted by Klisk

Garcia was big.


Also, the guitarist from Deftones was obese, at least for a while. Don't forget the dude from Fear Factory, too... Metal seems to have a lot of fat dudes, I guess. The singer from Deftones pudged up badly for a while during White Pony, but he lost it all again last time I saw him doing Team Sleep. Oh yeah, Rob Zombie (used) to be a bit overweight too.


I guess you can count Jack Black when he's doing Tenacious D, but him being overweight helps since it's comedy driven music to begin with.


I think the thing is that, in rock, you CAN get away with being pudgy if you're dedicated enough. Being insanely obese is more likely to hurt you, but then again, as proven in this thread, you can overcome it if you're motivated enough.


All in all, yeah, people are shallow and base their thoughts of you by the exterior. But {censored} it, just get on stage and play mother{censored}er.
:(



i saw some footage of the deftones playing in belgium earlier this week and the guitarist, singer and bassist are overweight... singer and bassist used to be normal.... singer his voice is gone to...

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Originally posted by Fourth Floor



Good post. Obesity is the new smoking. Agreed.

Uh, back to the original question. It obviously doesn't affect the music but it may affect whether you're successful or how successful you are. I'm sorry to be blunt but it will make a difference. It shouldn't but it will.


And it's not weight or any other 'problem' that will be the real issue but just the image overall. You can be chubby and attractive etc.

 

 

What about the girl who won Idol recently ... ?

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Originally posted by TIKIROCKER



What about the girl who won Idol recently ... ?

 

 

 

Casey Donovan? I wouldn't exactly call winning Idol successful...or talented for that matter:D

 

Since people are used to seeing celebrities as these "perfect" people, I think it does come as a shock when somebody comes along that doesn't fit that description. Wether their obesity is taken as a positive or negative thing is usually based on how well they "compensate" for their image in the way of talent etc.

 

I'm suprised BB King's name hasn't found it's way into the debate...

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I think there are two issues here. There is the sound of the band, and then the visual appeal of a rock show or video. I can certainly enjoy an ugly band if they are good. I saw a Pixies show on cable a few weeks a ago and they're frakin' great. In fact I've seen bands that are fat or hidious and they did great show's - to name a few Leslie West with Mountain (back around 1970), ugly old Neil Young with his ugly old band, and I saw Robert Plant recently, that dude got ugly but he and his band are amazing.

On the other hand I can apprciate a rock show when they have the whole package. A bunch of skinny {censored}ers with cool haircuts playing really well can be very enteraining. For example, Stone Temple Pilots, the Rolling Stones (I saw them back in the early seventies before they got old), David Bowie, Guns and Roses etc.

Personaly, now that I'm in my forties, I've gained some weight and I feel like I have to sound better if I'm going to play live. If I'm going to preform my band better sound great because there ain't much to look at. When I was young and touring back in the 80's I was thin and good looking and I could get away with sloppy playing, the girls would go crazy anyway. Now it's just the music.

So people that are young, thin and good looking have it easier, it's not just a show-biz phenomon. It's just the way it is and will always be.

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Originally posted by G-tarist




Casey Donovan? I wouldn't exactly call winning Idol successful...or talented for that matter:D


Since people are used to seeing celebrities as these "perfect" people, I think it does come as a shock when somebody comes along that doesn't fit that description. Wether their obesity is taken as a positive or negative thing is usually based on how well they "compensate" for their image in the way of talent etc.


I'm suprised BB King's name hasn't found it's way into the debate...

 

 

No, you totally missed my point ... Dan was saying that it's a barrier to your success ... but I am saying in that one instance there was a community backlash - most likely from image insecure 10 -13 year old girls who could identify perhaps with Casey - whether you like her or not. The fact is they voted for her ... personally I don't watch idol and I don't rate anything from that show as a measure of talent or success but within the context of the discussion I think it was a poignant backlash which serves as a testimony to what I am talking about .... dig?

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Originally posted by orourke


So people that are young, thin and good looking have it easier, it's not just a show-biz phenomon. It's just the way it is and will always be.

 

 

Certainly but we aren't really talking so much about being young ( or the cult of youth - that's another issue ) here but rather the image of weight and how it is perceived by the publc - there are a whole range of predjudices and assumptions that go along with image that already make a persons mind up before they give something a chance.

 

Thin = success, motivated, happening, cutting edge, health, fertile!

 

Fat = slack, failure, un-motivated, morbid, unhealthy, un-hip etc etc etc

 

These semiotic signs and symbols are already pumped subconciously into modern culture through every possible medium so that people who don't fit the image fascists criterion of success must equal the opposite .... right?

 

WRONG!

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