Members Arjae Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Give us a kiss ... mwahhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by endo23 Tiki, My responses weren't all aimed just at you, bud. Fair enough but I started the thread so it seemed fairly direct to me. Here's teh thing about clips, though-- A great OD pedal will respond to your particular rig in such a dynamic way that a clip can't possibly represent its true sound unless it was recorded through YOUR rig. In addition, clips often fail to represent how the pedal responds to your playing. It's this X factor I'm talking about. (FWIW, I don't hear anything in the MI Audio clips that suggests "magic," but I wouldn't judge them based on that. I've heard too many great things from players I trust.) But agaion my friend, then what is the point of clips in the first place eh? You can't have it both ways - like I said above - you could just then extrapolate and say it's no use using pedals in the recording studio since the vibe will never be captured. So what are we hearing then if not the pedal and all it's dynamics???? Also, while your "throw out our records" quip was pithy, it's a pretty bunk metaphor, as records often DO NOT represent the sound of a live band. Ask anyone who's seen the Smashing Pumpkins live if they sounded like they do on Siamese Dream. So whatever. Ofcourse they don't but that's a dynamic issue rather than a representation of specific sounds issue -- the guys big muff will still be heard both on the record AND live; y'know? My real point was sincere-- I wish you could try the pedal! It probably wouldn't be your bag anyway, judging from the sound of your MySpace tracks, but it's just a great piece of gear... I know it was mang ... but then again those two songs at myspace are not all I do - and even so I don't think the E is my thang anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by endo23 But Tiki, you're acting as if clips on a builder's site are = recording an album in a fricking studio. Clips are just a sketch of a pedal's potential. It's that simple, no matter how many ways you want to twist it around.Different guitars, different amps, hell even different mics and studio techniques can radically alter how the pedal sounds "on record." I'm not acting ... I'm quite serious. Clips on a website aren't going to hide something as major as upfront sound vs a pro studio recording and infact you are better off with these basic clips done at home than a pro recording because a pro recording goes through all manner of compression and mixing bollocks also. When you hear a home clips it's the girlfriend without the makeup the morning after ... and that there is the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by DJLantz444 Tiki you could always try a COT50 as your first lovepedal. *Looks down a line or two* I could but it seems your endorsement of sale has supported my inital instinct to not buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 So is it safe to say that your main beef in this thread is the fact that people are paying a lot of money for pedals used that you could get for cheaper if you just bought new and waited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by murch33 So is it safe to say that your main beef in this thread is the fact that people are paying a lot of money for pedals used that you could get for cheaper if you just bought new and waited? Well I had no beef at all to begin with ... I was genuinely interested in these pedals and the WHY it had become a biggy over at the Gearpage - it was interesting because guys who own Seans pedals and love them had issues with the price surges etc and the hype that followed. I decided during the course of the thread to educate myself a bit and read reviews and other thread comments on Lovepedal and then listened to the clips ... I would happily line up and pay top dollar if what I heard was impressive but it wasn't to me. I started out curious with no beef at all and still have no beef ... my comment without passion is merely - why pay more 2nd hand for something you can for less direct from the maker? That's all. Subsequent to this discussion and as I listened to clips I came to the conclusion that I didn't think the price was justified by the hype - based on my own perception of the clips I heard and my own needs as a player. If others love it that's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endo23 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER I'm not acting ... I'm quite serious.Clips on a website aren't going to hide something as major as upfront sound vs a pro studio recording and infact you are better off with these basic clips done at home than a pro recording because a pro recording goes through all manner of compression and mixing bollocks also. When you hear a home clips it's the girlfriend without the makeup the morning after ... and that there is the test. My point exactly. And when you buy the E (or any pedal) and put it into your rig and record it however you like, then you're actually getting the girl in the makeup, so what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by endo23 My point exactly. And when you buy the E (or any pedal) and put it into your rig and record it however you like, then you're actually getting the girl in the makeup, so what's the problem? Because no ... what I am saying is that a pro recording will better hide with compression the true upfront nature of a pedal without any smoothing of the edges - hence my NO makeup comment. I was not saying what you seem to assume I am saying which was that the Lovepedal put's a pretty face on things once added. I'm saying home clips with just the guitar through an amp are the most raw example of what you are getting with nothing to cover that up. As I said mate, if you dig it and it's rocking your world I'm hip to that - it's not for me and the price doesn't seem to fit ---- for meeeee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Well I had no beef at all to begin with ... I was genuinely interested in these pedals and the WHY it had become a biggy over at the Gearpage - it was interesting because guys who own Seans pedals and love them had issues with the price surges etc and the hype that followed.I decided during the course of the thread to educate myself a bit and read reviews and other thread comments on Lovepedal and then listened to the clips ... I would happily line up and pay top dollar if what I heard was impressive but it wasn't to me. I started out curious with no beef at all and still have no beef ... my comment without passion is merely - why pay more 2nd hand for something you can for less direct from the maker?That's all.Subsequent to this discussion and as I listened to clips I came to the conclusion that I didn't think the price was justified by the hype - based on my own perception of the clips I heard and my own needs as a player. If others love it that's all good. Why worry about how others are spending their money? I can pay $199 to Sean for a COT50, or I could've grabbed that one off of TGP yesterday for $210 and had it within the week. Maybe it's just me, but $10 is pretty insignificant. I see the same things with Skreddy's stuff, too. I can pay $178 to Marc and wait 4-6 weeks, or I can pay $185 and have another Screwdriver in a couple days. Lovepedals are a more drastic example, but they're not the only ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 For the record, the eBay E ain't used - it's new, direct from Sean, one-off cosmetics, and what people are paying for is the opportunity to have it right the hell now instead of going on the list. I agree that it seems goofy to pay that much more not to wait, but in the context of the freaking 100% markup on "used" Timmys and the nearly 70% markup on "used" Zendrives, it's an absolute bargain. TIKI, you do seem to be playing a bit dense wrt the clips. Given that so much of the goodness of a lovepedal OD is in its dynamic qualities, it's pretty much a given that all clips can say is "here is a sound that can be made with this pedal, a guitar, and an amp." You can't hear it respond to touch, guitar volume, etc. This is a general problem for ODs, and the lower the gain, the bigger the challenge. Probably explains why e.g. the Klon and the Red Snapper don't have clips available at all, and why folks here are forever complaining to Brian M that his online clips don't do the Liquid Sunshine justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by murch33 Why worry about how others are spending their money? I'm not worried, I am merely making comment - a critique if you will of the boutique pedal market and that's all. What people do with their cash is their problem not mine but I am well within my right to make an observational comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arjae Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by murch33 Why worry about how others are spending their money? I can pay $199 to Sean for a COT50, or I could've grabbed that one off of TGP yesterday for $210 and had it within the week. Maybe it's just me, but $10 is pretty insignificant.I see the same things with Skreddy's stuff, too. I can pay $178 to Marc and wait 4-6 weeks, or I can pay $185 and have another Screwdriver in a couple days. Lovepedals are a more drastic example, but they're not the only ones. Same happened with the Blues Pro's and Crunch Box's when they came out. $89 and $99 respectively but people were buying them on the Emporium and eBay for a decent amount more because of supply and demand. On a side note (not directed at the quote above):The Eternity increase in price is 14%. DD-20's fluctuate from $179 to $229. That is 28%. Given that the DD-20 is mass produced in huge quantities and the fact that they can sell them for $179 and everyone from Roland to the store can get their cut, wouldn't you say that Roland is a worse offender when it comes to pricing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by utterhack For the record, the eBay E ain't used - it's new, direct from Sean, one-off cosmetics, and what people are paying for is the opportunity to have it right the hell now instead of going on the list. Yes that's right but guys at the Gearpage were also quoting 2nd hand prices that E's were selling for to which my 2nd hand comment was aimed. TIKI, G'day ... welcome to tonights {censored}storm. ...you do seem to be playing a bit dense wrt the clips. You really believe that? I've grown up in recording studios since nappies ... I think I have a fairly good idea of what can be captured on tape or other recorded media. Why would I play dumb - to what purpose would it serve? Given that so much of the goodness of a lovepedal OD is in its dynamic qualities, it's pretty much a given that all clips can say is "here is a sound that can be made with this pedal, a guitar, and an amp." You can't hear it respond to touch, guitar volume, etc. This is a general problem for ODs, and the lower the gain, the bigger the challenge. Probably explains why e.g. the Klon and the Red Snapper don't have clips available at all, and why folks here are forever complaining to Brian M that his online clips don't do the Liquid Sunshine justice. Sure, and yet for all that albums capture killer dirt pedal and amp sounds - and yet for all that I can hear clips and pick out dirt boxes and fuzz units that I like better than others and when I go play them in the flesh they don't dissapoint as I supposed they wouldn't. I listened to Fulltone pedals in clips and was unimpressed and gave them a fair hearing by playing nearly all of them live here in Sydney at a dealer ... they sounded the same as the clips - flat and boring. What's the missing link in all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endo23 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 I've already mentioned the missing link multiple times, Tiki-- it's that YMMV due to your rig and playing technique and all that good {censored}. Add the recording process to the mix and things get infinitely more complicated. The clips on Sean's site are ONE POSSIBLE SONIC OUTCOME of the pedal, plugged into X AMP, played on Y GUITAR, by Z PLAYER. Good clips should certainly represent the pedal's character, but then we're assuming these are "good clips" -- which is not always the case. For example, I listened to stereotypy's recording of his Eternity on soundclick, and, no offense to him, it sounded TERRIBLE to my ears. But mine sounds nothing like that. Why? 'Cause I run it before my Tone Press, because I have the Tone knob at 9 o'clock instead of noon, because I play a PRS instead of whatever, because I use a Fender amp set to break up when I hit the strings hard, because I'm a better player?, because because because... I know you see all this stuff and I think you're just being stubborn, which is why I will now bow out of this thread. But it's been fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJLantz444 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by murch33 Why worry about how others are spending their money? I can pay $199 to Sean for a COT50, or I could've grabbed that one off of TGP yesterday for $210 and had it within the week. Maybe it's just me, but $10 is pretty insignificant. Or you can buy one for $170.. that is pretty significant. Come on guys! I need to sell this quick. And TIki, it's not because I don't like it.. in fact, I had to make a tough decision about which to keep.. The E or the COT50, but I determined that the E was more versatile and more useful. I just need to sell this COT50 so I can pay the guy for my upcoming amp purchase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papa taco Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 I've always loved the clips of the eternity. I think the built in treble boost as a tone control is gold, jerry, gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by DJLantz444 Or you can buy one for $170.. that is pretty significant. Come on guys! I need to sell this quick. The only reason I don't is because I just bought a Red. Otherwise I'd love to help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJLantz444 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by murch33 The only reason I don't is because I just bought a Red. Oh, I wasn't saying you, specifically. I wouldn't expect you to buy two. I was just spamming up this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by endo23 I've already mentioned the missing link multiple times, Tiki-- it's that YMMV due to your rig and playing technique and all that good {censored}. Add the recording process to the mix and things get infinitely more complicated. My missing link comment was rhetorical - I know the answer, the answer is that there is no missing link. Maybe it's the fact that I know exactly what potential a pedal has for me the moment I hear it in a clip no matter how bad the clip is ... or maybe it's something else but I have never yet heard a clip and then played the pedal live and been wrong about my assessment of the clip. What can I say? I know you see all this stuff and I think you're just being stubborn, which is why I will now bow out of this thread. But it's been fun. I'm not being stubborn about anything I don't see, that's for sure. Why bow out now ... we just don't talk anymore mang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by DJLantz444 And TIki, it's not because I don't like it.. in fact, I had to make a tough decision about which to keep.. The E or the COT50, but I determined that the E was more versatile and more useful. I just need to sell this COT50 so I can pay the guy for my upcoming amp purchase! I was just kidding mate, I'm sure you love it as was evidenced by your comments. It's a huge risk for me to take buying a pedal like that for that money with one knob and one switch when the clips don't impress --- apart from that I have the sounds I need and a Tone Press which does that job for me already on the settings I have. Hope you DO get a quick sale anyway. Trouble also is nobody I know in OZ owns them near me ... we have Mike Ibrihim in Sydney instead - we aren't complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arjae Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 If you want to hear some more clips of it under different settings, here's some I had done a while back alternating between the stock chip and a TL072ACN. Stock Chip, Gain at 9, Tone at 12 TL072ACN Chip, Gain at 9, Tone at 12 Stock Chip, Gain at 12, Tone at 1 TL072ACN Chip, Gain at 12, Tone at 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members derek_32999 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by utterhack Probably explains why e.g. the Klon and the Red Snapper don't have clips available at all, and why folks here are forever complaining to Brian M that his online clips don't do the Liquid Sunshine justice. OT I sold my Timmy and Red snapper at one point in favor of the Liquid Sunshine. It doesn't do klon IMO, but does the others better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted July 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by DJLantz444 Alright guys, keep the thread nice. Tiki and murch both have fiery tempers (at least in my opinion) and we don't need a confrontation. Actually it's important for you and others to know that I don't have a short fuse at all ... I'm the laughing Buddha! When I call somebody a {censored} I'm usually laughing in a gentle way --- Ahhhhhhhh ... Most of the pleasure I get from this forum is purely intellectual Z brain waves ... I don't have arguments here - it's more like philosophical debates in the Greek Forums of old ... love that {censored}, makes my happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER You really believe that? Yes. Either that, or demanding that someone cut down all these goddamn trees so we can put a proper forest in. I've grown up in recording studios since nappies ... I think I have a fairly good idea of what can be captured on tape or other recorded media. This is a red herring; what can be captured has nothing to do with the "unrepresentative clips" issue. As erksin, endo and yrs truly have pointed out, the issue is what's recorded, not how well. The less a pedal takes over your tone, the more of an issue this becomes in clips, which are capturing with whatever degree of fidelity a specific combination of pedal/amp/guitar plus settings on all of the above. None of which necessarily tells you what's going on with e.g. force of attack. How a pedal plays is at least as important as what sounds it can make. And before you invite me to remove the cork from my nostril, note that I'm the author of the current DS-1 appreciation thread Why would I play dumb - to what purpose would it serve? stirring {censored}? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJLantz444 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER I was just kidding mate, I'm sure you love it as was evidenced by your comments. It's a huge risk for me to take buying a pedal like that for that money with one knob and one switch when the clips don't impress --- apart from that I have the sounds I need and a Tone Press which does that job for me already on the settings I have. Hope you DO get a quick sale anyway. Trouble also is nobody I know in OZ owns them near me ... we have Mike Ibrihim in Sydney instead - we aren't complaining. Thanks! I just got a few PMs, so this spamming must actually work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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