Members JDandCoke Posted December 17, 2006 Members Share Posted December 17, 2006 in an amp that has tremolo where in the circuit does it go? is it right at the end after the amplifying bit? or at the end after the amplifying bit? just wonderin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2006 no one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 18, 2006 Members Share Posted December 18, 2006 Depends on the amp. It's usually just before the phase inverter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members comfortablynumb Posted December 18, 2006 Members Share Posted December 18, 2006 I've often wondered this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members butterknucket Posted December 18, 2006 Members Share Posted December 18, 2006 Sometimes it modulates the bias of the output tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 18, 2006 ok how about if im more specific... how about... where is the tremolo part in the following amps. marshall bluesbreaker AC30 fender blackface amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 21, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2006 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimmyc84 Posted December 21, 2006 Members Share Posted December 21, 2006 Originally posted by butterknucket Sometimes it modulates the bias of the output tubes. this applies to ac30s does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 21, 2006 Members Share Posted December 21, 2006 Originally posted by jimmyc84 this applies to ac30s does it not? It does not. That applies to the brown, black and silver princetons, the brown deluxe, the tweed and brown tremolux, the tweed (and brown?) vibrolux, and the brown vibroverb. Essentially all smaller brown and tweed Fenders with tremolo. And the pre '81 Princetons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 22, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Originally posted by Kap'n It does not.That applies to the brown, black and silver princetons, the brown deluxe, the tweed and brown tremolux, the tweed (and brown?) vibrolux, and the brown vibroverb.Essentially all smaller brown and tweed Fenders with tremolo. And the pre '81 Princetons. you seem to know about this stuff but still wont tell me? where does the signal get cut off?before or after pre amp? power amp? at the end?right at the beginning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Originally posted by JDandCoke you seem to know about this stuff but still wont tell me?where does the signal get cut off?before or after pre amp? power amp? at the end?right at the beginning? I don't have AC30 or Marshall schematics in my head, like I do Fender ones. Oh, and quit whining. where does the signal get cut off? Originally posted by Kap'nIt's usually just before the phase inverter. The exceptions, of course, for the BF Fenders being the aforementioned Princeton, and the Vibro Champ, which doesn't have a phase inverter. It modulates the cathode of the last gain stage before the power tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 22, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Originally posted by Kap'n I don't have AC30 or Marshall schematics in my head, like I do Fender ones. Oh, and quit whining. The exceptions, of course, for the BF Fenders being the aforementioned Princeton, and the Vibro Champ, which doesn't have a phase inverter. It modulates the cathode of the last gain stage before the power tube. thanks... so the the actual volume change is like between the power amp and pre amp?i dont know much about amps see...talking in simple terms...it goes guitar... input... pre amp... trem... power amp... output stuff?i need to learn amps like i know pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members erksin Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Originally posted by JDandCoke talking in simple terms... it goes guitar... input... pre amp... trem... power amp... output stuff? i need to learn amps like i know pedals I think that is the most common circuit, yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 In the larger BF-type amps, the tremolo comes right after the preamp, and cyclically grounds out the signal, using a "optoisolator," essentially a neon bulb and a photoresistor. Due to the way the bulb and resistor works, it makes a pretty choppy signal. In the Vibro Champ, the tremolo is actually integrated into the preamp - modulating the gain of the second (final) stage. It makes a much rounder waveform, and the gain modulation makes for a nice warm organic sound. The Princton integrates the tremolo into the power stage. It modulates the bias voltage of the power stage, again giving the round, warm sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 22, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Originally posted by Kap'n In the larger BF-type amps, the tremolo comes right after the preamp, and cyclically grounds out the signal, using a "optoisolator," essentially a neon bulb and a photoresistor. Due to the way the bulb and resistor works, it makes a pretty choppy signal. In the Vibro Champ, the tremolo is actually integrated into the preamp - modulating the gain of the second (final) stage. It makes a much rounder waveform, and the gain modulation makes for a nice warm organic sound. The Princton integrates the tremolo into the power stage. It modulates the bias voltage of the power stage, again giving the round, warm sound. i need to go back to schoolwaitim still in school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 OK, class is in session. On a larger BF amp, it's as if somebody installed a volume control between the the preamp and power amp, and rather than using an audio taper pot, they used a linear taper. A robot turns the volume control up and down, but because the taper is messed up, it sounds choppy.On the smaller ones, the robot changes your amp's bias up and down, making the tubes run hotter and colder. It's done in different ways, and in different parts of the amp, but the effect is similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L6Sguy Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 ^^^thanks for describing it in the way that my head was already picturing it in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Originally posted by L6Sguy ^^^ thanks for describing it in the way that my head was already picturing it in I knew that. Next time put on your tin-foil hat, and make it more challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JDandCoke Posted December 22, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 ok i think i got confused because i thought all trems were just volume controled... like the volume on a guitar (only a little more complicated maybe )never thought of it as like biasing valves or anything hahai just thought like an automatic volume control in various places...i think i get it nowthanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 22, 2006 Members Share Posted December 22, 2006 Yep, it's one of the things about that bias modulation trem that make it so groovy. Nice and warm.You can also find it on tweeds, and the brown Vibroverb.The large brownface amp trem (Super, Pro, Twin, Showman). Now, that's a whole other story. I'm not even sure I can understand it completely, and I don't have a lot of experience with it.I think It splits the signal into high end and low end, tremolos one side, and uses an inverted signal to tremolo the other.So as the highs are getting louder, the lows are getting quieter, and vice versa.Or I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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