So how can an amp not take pedals well?

[L6Sguy]

i dont mean if you didnt like a pedal with an amp, an amp that you dug until that point. and to a large extent, i dont care if you thought dirt pedals and your so-and-so amp never worked, cuz, well without getting into it i just dont care.

 

do some receivers or stereo hifi amplifiers not take cd inputs well? do some mixers not take miicrophones well?

 

something to do with certain specific spiky frequencies that must exist in all pedals, and if one plugs into an amp that amplifies that dangerous frequency, it inevitably sounds sucky? as opposed to plugging into a Twin, which loves pedals (vomit), and because of the inevitable drop in mids, the pedals with the dangerous freqs (all of the pedals, that is) are able to be safely used. is this it?

 

 

 

can anybody present to me reasons why an amp wouldnt take pedals well? please?

 

 

or is the whole 'takes/doesnt take pedals well' thing just a pile of complete horseshit?

 

 

 

user setting on guitar, pedal, amp all take adjustment, and to whatever extent the players skill will have an effect on the sound of the pedal.

 

 

 

if 4 boneheads cant figure out that PedalX doesnt need gain maxxed when they plug it into AmpY, and hit teh interweb with the info that AmpY doesnt take pedals well, is that it? does that amp not take pedals well now

 

 

 

 

please, help me here, cuz every time i read the phrase 'takes pedals well' i wanna both laugh till i'm blue in the face and kick the next forumite as hard as i can, square in the nuts. as some have seen, i'm often not very averse to kicking thenext forumite in the nuts, and it is very, very much related to this phenomenon of amps not taking pedals well. ad 14yr olds speaking with the authority of bradshaw, but thats another thead.

[fuzzinator]

I see your point.

 

I own a bundle of Fender amps (SF Super Reverb, Tweed Blues Jr. and an HRD) and I can honestly say that pedals sound fine through all of them.

 

I've only owned a handful of pedals that I have sold, and I sold them because they didn't suit my needs, or they just plain sounded bad (Line 6 modelers.)

 

There are certainly some instances where a pedal is designed to interface with a certain tube architecture, though. Treble Boosters are designed to add highs to typically dark Class-A British tube amps. Hotcakes were designed to interface with a Vox AC30, etc.

 

However, that doesn't mean you can't get something out of them through a different amp. I use a Hotcake on Fender amps as a boost or low-gain OD. Sounds fine.

[Lanefair]

I think it's mostly subjective, like if someone (like me) runs their pedalboard into a Marshall amp, and then one day has to use someones fender amp (like I did once) theyre going to think 'what the hell happened to my board?' (like I did once). It doesnt mean the Fender amp didn't take pedals well, I just hadn't gotten used to it and set up accordingly.

[erksin]

I think when people use that term, they're refering to percentages - obviously, not every pedal will sound good through every amp.

 

Blackface/Silverface Fenders are notoriously pedal friendly, but I don't think a Hot Cake sounds very good through them - Voxes don't tend to like Tube Screamers very much either for example.

 

I still haven't found a dirt box that sounds good through my Ampeg Reverberocket - but I'm not done looking either...

[NoirAbattoir]

Good question. I think it's probably a matter of certain frequency spikes inherent in the circuit of the amp, though adjusting the EQ can go a long way. It also could be a matter of preamp gain. I think that can hurt a lot of time-based effects in front of a circuit.

 

There was a time when I simply couldn't use my pedalboard in front of my JMP. At this point, I know how to tweak it to be wonderful with pedals, but I had to learn how to ease off the gain some. In some instances, you have to adjust the effects. Delay pedals in front of my overdriven JMP can sound awesome, if you keep the effect level low.

[jerrye]

My Mesa Single Rectifier combo came stock with a parallel effects loop. It' didn't play well with stomp box effects. I got an undesired feedback thing. I learned that the amp was designed to work with rack effects. Mesa was very cool, and I rewired the fx loop to series, and the amp works great with every effect I've tried, rack or pedal.

[M900]

 

Originally posted by L6Sguy do some receivers or stereo hifi amplifiers not take cd inputs well? do some mixers not take miicrophones well? something to do with certain specific spiky frequencies that must exist in all pedals, and if one plugs into an amp that amplifies that dangerous frequency, it inevitably sounds sucky? as opposed to plugging into a Twin, which loves pedals (vomit), and because of the inevitable drop in mids, the pedals with the dangerous freqs (all of the pedals, that is) are able to be safely used. is this it?

 

 

Guitar amps do not amplify music well -- it actually applies a preset equalization that, in terms of sound fidelity, is kinda sucky, but we expect and desire that from an amp.

 

That being said, if said pedal that amplifies certain frequencies, it may move the amp's tonal characteristics beyond the range we find pleasing for guitars.

 

As for backing off gain, everything works in conjunction with everything else. If your pedal's sweet spot is at 75% gain but the amp does not do well with that hot of a signal because of too much distortion making your guitar sound ill-defined, you have one unsatisfied customer who'd post that said amp does not take pedals well.

 

As with everything related to guitars or music in general, it's all about one's personal taste. Though I value people's opinions regarding tone, what comes out of my speakers is the ultimate test as far as I am concerned.

 

That and bi-directional cables.

 

c

[letterswewrote]

Originally posted by M900 That and bi-directional cables. c

 

a small bit of ginger-ale just shot out of my nose.

[L6Sguy]

Originally posted by M900 Guitar amps do not amplify music well -- it actually applies a preset equalization that, in terms of sound fidelity, is kinda sucky, but we expect and desire that from an amp. That being said, if said pedal that amplifies certain frequencies, it may move the amp's tonal characteristics beyond the range we find pleasing for guitars. As for backing off gain, everything works in conjunction with everything else. If your pedal's sweet spot is at 75% gain but the amp does not do well with that hot of a signal because of too much distortion making your guitar sound ill-defined, you have one unsatisfied customer who'd post that said amp does not take pedals well. As with everything related to guitars or music in general, it's all about one's personal taste. Though I value people's opinions regarding tone, what comes out of my speakers is the ultimate test as far as I am concerned. That and bi-directional cables. c

 

but all that seems to be pedal-specific examples --- which i can definately agree with/understand, but those examples dont show an amp that doesnt play well pedals.

 

and for that, i thank you

 

 

this thread is restoring my faith in this forum, as long as nobody reponded the way they did for fear of a kick to the nuts.

 

 

 

erskin --- in your case w/the ampeg, is it possible that a non-dirt pedal(s?) would (more easily) create what yer looking for? treble booster, LPB, etc? perhaps even not-as-obvious choices -- zoom powerdriver through a daddy-0 sorta thing, or dist+ into micro amp kinda oddball combos?

[M900]

Originally posted by L6Sguy but all that seems to be pedal-specific examples --- which i can definately agree with/understand, but those examples dont show an amp that doesnt play well pedals. and for that, i thank you

 

I think the problem here is that you are being reasonable.

 

Yeah, having a dirt pedal not agree with a particular amp should not necessarily lead to the fact that the said amp is not pedal friendly, but you forget that some people would be quick to jump up and say "this amp is not pedal friendly" after trying it out with their favorite set up and nothing else.

 

the fact is, some people will declare one thing as Gospel truth without putting much thought into it.

 

and this is a great thread!

 

 

c

[SirJackdeFuzz]

OK, here is my short ver. on the "do/does not" -thing !

 

 

My Blues Jr. (15watter) still sounds very nice with almost any fuzz box that i connect to it, but sooooooo many folks over at the OrangeForum told me that the new Orage Tiny Terror (also a 15watter) sound horrible with fuzz.

 

So one could be safe in saying, that the TT does NOT take very well to fuzz-boxes !

 

There, in a nut-shell

[erksin]

Originally posted by L6Sguy erskin --- in your case w/the ampeg, is it possible that a non-dirt pedal(s?) would (more easily) create what yer looking for? treble booster, LPB, etc? perhaps even not-as-obvious choices -- zoom powerdriver through a daddy-0 sorta thing, or dist+ into micro amp kinda oddball combos?

 

Possibly, but I had a Micro Amp and it didn't do anything for me through the RR. The amp is quite trebly to begin with, so I never thought to try a treble booster - my CoT50 might actually be really nice though the Ampeg!

 

[skr3ddy]

I have an example from personal experience, a Victoria amp that I tried to use as a demo for my pedals in Chicago last year. The amp was breathtakingly gorgeous when you plugged straight in. Incredible chime, beautiful, slightly crunchy natural overdrive, rich harmonics, lush dimensionality, plenty of open bass response.

 

Then I plug in a pedal that normally sounds creamy and smooth through my amp at home (a 100 Watt Traynor), and what I get is a nasty, ugly tone with some very unusual harshness in the upper registers and a muddy midrange--strange fizziness and very non-musical, broken glass grinding tones.

 

This amp, I must objectively say, did not get along well with pedals. Bjorn Juhls said there was some intermodulation going on in there and suggested I get a different amp. It actually did get along pretty well with my Top Fuel pedal, though (which is really focused in the midrange and not heavy in the lows and pretty smooth in the highs).

 

So I got a 100 Watt non-master-volume Marshall reissue, plug into one of the inputs, and I get this way-too-bright harsh tone. Oops; that must be the wrong input. Plug into the other one, and finally!! AAAHHHhhh. There's my tone. The "normal" input. What do I know about vintage Marshall amps? Anyhow, perfect. My pedals sound like my pedals sound. So I can say that Marshall gets along great with pedals.

 

It basically has to do with an amp being designed for stability; a rock-solid tone. The Victoria is based on a very early Fender design that creates its own harmonics based on the guitar signal. Those harmonics are beautiful! But not stable, not polite, not solid, not predictable. So add in extra harmonics from a distortion, fuzz, or overdrive, and those extra high-frequency components in the signal cause havoc in the amp when the amp creates its own distortion, its own extra harmonics. The amp is adding new frequencies to the sound; that's what happens when it overdrives. But the amp neglected to first FILTER OUT the high frequencies in the original signal. So the new harmonics, the doubling and tripling of the frequencies were adding ridiculously high frequencies crashing into each other and creating a harsh, broken glass effect.

 

So what makes an amp get along well with pedals is really an amp that responds and reacts more to a limited bandwidth, that essentially filters and dampens very high and very low frequencies to prevent intermodulation in the bass registers and harsh, broken-glass harmonics in the upper registers.

 

Also it helps if the amp is powerful enough to reproduce the sound coming into it without distorting too much on its own.

[gil1]

From what I hear, snipping the bright cap out helps a lot.

 

I did that to my amps, and like them better with pedals.

[CapnMarvel]

Try jumping the inputs in that JMP. Then you can dial in a bit of the high...juuuuust a touch.

[L6Sguy]

Originally posted by erksin Possibly, but I had a Micro Amp and it didn't do anything for me through the RR. The amp is quite trebly to begin with, so I never thought to try a treble booster - my CoT50 might actually be really nice though the Ampeg!

 

 

WAIT!!!

 

i wasnt even suggesting specifics for your rig, just saying that as opposed to looking towards only dirt pedals, using something that might not be an obious choice (like pairing an HM-2 with a Twin for blues kinda scenario).

[L6Sguy]

Originally posted by skr3ddy I have an example from personal experience, a Victoria amp that I tried to use as a demo for my pedals in Chicago last year. The amp was breathtakingly gorgeous when you plugged straight in. Incredible chime, beautiful, slightly crunchy natural overdrive, rich harmonics, lush dimensionality, plenty of open bass response. Then I plug in a pedal that normally sounds creamy and smooth through my amp at home (a 100 Watt Traynor), and what I get is a nasty, ugly tone with some very unusual harshness in the upper registers and a muddy midrange--strange fizziness and very non-musical, broken glass grinding tones. This amp, I must objectively say, did not get along well with pedals. Bjorn Juhls said there was some intermodulation going on in there and suggested I get a different amp. It actually did get along pretty well with my Top Fuel pedal, though (which is really focused in the midrange and not heavy in the lows and pretty smooth in the highs). So I got a 100 Watt non-master-volume Marshall reissue, plug into one of the inputs, and I get this way-too-bright harsh tone. Oops; that must be the wrong input. Plug into the other one, and finally!! AAAHHHhhh. There's my tone. The "normal" input. What do I know about vintage Marshall amps? Anyhow, perfect. My pedals sound like my pedals sound. So I can say that Marshall gets along great with pedals. It basically has to do with an amp being designed for stability; a rock-solid tone. The Victoria is based on a very early Fender design that creates its own harmonics based on the guitar signal. Those harmonics are beautiful! But not stable, not polite, not solid, not predictable. So add in extra harmonics from a distortion, fuzz, or overdrive, and those extra high-frequency components in the signal cause havoc in the amp when the amp creates its own distortion, its own extra harmonics. The amp is adding new frequencies to the sound; that's what happens when it overdrives. But the amp neglected to first FILTER OUT the high frequencies in the original signal. So the new harmonics, the doubling and tripling of the frequencies were adding ridiculously high frequencies crashing into each other and creating a harsh, broken glass effect. So what makes an amp get along well with pedals is really an amp that responds and reacts more to a limited bandwidth, that essentially filters and dampens very high and very low frequencies to prevent intermodulation in the bass registers and harsh, broken-glass harmonics in the upper registers. Also it helps if the amp is powerful enough to reproduce the sound coming into it without distorting too much on its own.

 

 

what would the Vic sound like with a bigass maestro first-gen phaser going through it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

but i totally get what you're sayin. dirt, fuzz, things involving gain and added (and squelched) harmonics can completely change the playing field with an amps 'normal' settings. but, at the same time, modulation and time-based fx, filtering fx, even trem could sound astounding. so..............

 

 

 

is it a dirt/gain based thing, and a pedal-unfriendly amp can do well with stuff aside from gain-involved pedals?

[hangwire]

Originally posted by L6Sguy i dont mean if you didnt like a pedal with an amp, an amp that you dug until that point. and to a large extent, i dont care if you thought dirt pedals and your so-and-so amp never worked, cuz, well without getting into it i just dont care. do some receivers or stereo hifi amplifiers not take cd inputs well? do some mixers not take miicrophones well? something to do with certain specific spiky frequencies that must exist in all pedals, and if one plugs into an amp that amplifies that dangerous frequency, it inevitably sounds sucky? as opposed to plugging into a Twin, which loves pedals (vomit), and because of the inevitable drop in mids, the pedals with the dangerous freqs (all of the pedals, that is) are able to be safely used. is this it? can anybody present to me reasons why an amp wouldnt take pedals well? please? or is the whole 'takes/doesnt take pedals well' thing just a pile of complete horseshit? user setting on guitar, pedal, amp all take adjustment, and to whatever extent the players skill will have an effect on the sound of the pedal. if 4 boneheads cant figure out that PedalX doesnt need gain maxxed when they plug it into AmpY, and hit teh interweb with the info that AmpY doesnt take pedals well, is that it? does that amp not take pedals well now please, help me here, cuz every time i read the phrase 'takes pedals well' i wanna both laugh till i'm blue in the face and kick the next forumite as hard as i can, square in the nuts. as some have seen, i'm often not very averse to kicking thenext forumite in the nuts, and it is very, very much related to this phenomenon of amps not taking pedals well. ad 14yr olds speaking with the authority of bradshaw, but thats another thead.

 

they are usually referring to tone or the gain structure... a middy amp with grit soudns fartty with certain OD or fuzz pedals... plus, some poeple are just stupid and wonder why a delay sounds shitty when they run it into the input of a cranked Marshall

[MrMunky]

I often use an AER Compact 60, the frequency response of which is nearly full range. While it sounds excellent with a clean guitar and quiet modulation effects, I have described it as being unfriendly to dirt pedals.

 

Because the AER reproduces a broader range of high frequencies than a traditional guitar amp, dirt boxes of all varieties sound exceptionally fizzy. While I recognize that assessments of tone quality are largely subjective, I think few people when looking to achieve a traditional drive/fuzz/dirt texture would prefer the AER to a standard range guitar amp.

 

The story is quite different when you use a good amp modeler with the AER, but I think it fair to characterize the amp as not "dirt pedal friendly" if it requires something that makes it sound like a different amp.

[L6Sguy]

okay --- so by general consensus, its at least always a gain/dirt thing? or almost always?

 

so a pedal-unfriendly amp would still do fine (in general, as theres always exceptions like a spiky Phase 90) with modulation, and delays, and whatever else?

 

 

 

I'm avoiding the whole "What makes an amp pedal friendly?" for now, as thats way too much a can of worms. thanks folks for keeping this on-topic

[erksin]

 

Originally posted by L6Sguy WAIT!!! i wasnt even suggesting specifics for your rig, just saying that as opposed to looking towards only dirt pedals, using something that might not be an obious choice (like pairing an HM-2 with a Twin for blues kinda scenario).

 

 

The pedals I buy have to sound good with every amp I own, the fact that the RR sounds so good with no effects in front of it is the only reason I still own it.

 

I'm not a collector anymore - if stuff doesn't get played enough or is super finicky about how it's set-up, it's gone...