Members ArrMatey Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I am having a bit of a hard time finding out the differences between the different SF types out there. I tried a bandmaster that sounded absolutely beautiful, I know there are dual showmans as well out there, vibrolux, tremolux and bassman, twin reverb. Is it mainly the wattage/combo form that varies (apart from certain of those models having a vibrato or a tremolo) Do they all provide the same clean sound or are there differences in all of them (seriously notable differences) PS: I checked the fender field guide but it's more technical aspects than actual sonic explanations. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted February 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 bump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yarmo Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Is it mainly the wattage/combo form that varies (apart from certain of those models having a vibrato or a tremolo) Do they all provide the same clean sound or are there differences in all of them (seriously notable differences) Cheers Yes and no.More wattage = more headroom. Smaller wattage combos will overdrive earlier when driven hard. A SF Twin (100W to 135W) will virtually remain clean even when dimed(depending on the speakers). As for the cleans, Fender cleans are very characteristic. They will sound a little different from one another but retain a particular 'vibe' common to all. Notable differences? Someone more knowledgeable needs to answer this..sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CapnMarvel Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Try the Fender Amp Field Guide for wattage/feature information....www.ampwares.com/ffgWhen I first got into Fender tube amps, this was where I got most of my hard facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted February 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 my main interest is that all these fenders have different names but all in all, is their clean channel circuitry the same or are there notable differences in their tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 The main differences will be in terms of reverb and tremolo, size and number of speakers and output. Over the course of the SF years, the circuits of the various amps changed, so a '76 Twin is different electrically, and hence tonally, to a '68 Twin. Tone-wise, there will be differences, since the circuits are different, but also because of the characteristics of the valves, speakers etc involved. 6L6s, which will be in the power section of all the bigger amps, have a clear but powerful bass response and quite a lot of high end push and clarity, but not much emphasis on midrange. The smaller amps I think have 6V6s, which I don't have much experience with. In general, you'll get a similar sort of sound while the amps stay clean (which is all you'll get the higher wattage models like the Twin to do), but more pronounced differences if you want the amps to overdrive on their own. They'll all be in a similar ballpark though. I doub't you'd love one and hate another for reasons of basic tone. Good luck finding many to try out in the UK though. Music Ground in London and Leeds have some vintage amps they might let you try if they think you're serious about buying, there's also a place in Doncaster that deal in old/vintage stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted February 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Wunjo music has 2 bandmasters to try. That's where I tried one and the price is alright. a bit more than a grand including the cabinet (huge one). They got a twin and a pro reverb (have to double check on that). The bandmaster was one of the most beautiful tone I've heard on a clean amp.But I wanna try a bassman as well and see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members inscho Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Wunjo music has 2 bandmasters to try. That's where I tried one and the price is alright. a bit more than a grand including the cabinet (huge one). They got a twin and a pro reverb (have to double check on that). The bandmaster was one of the most beautiful tone I've heard on a clean amp. But I wanna try a bassman as well and see how that goes. bandmasters are terrific...i had a blackface that had amazing clean tone. if you want to get a little grit out of it, jump the channels a bassman won't have a lot of clean headroom, unless you get one of the 100 watters...it will have tighter bass and more output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Wunjo music has 2 bandmasters to try. That's where I tried one and the price is alright. a bit more than a grand including the cabinet (huge one).AFAIK, the Bandmaster is very similar to the Twin, but in piggyback form rather than a combo. Judging by the size and weight my old '76 Twin, it will be a bitch to cart around. Like a Cartman's mom type bitch.While from that point of view the Twin might be a better bet, bear in mind that the speakers can be variable in SF amps too- Fender used about half a dozen different suppliers for speakers (and JBLs as an optional upgrade), all of which got Fender stickers slapped on them, and all of which got used because they made more "cost effective" speakers than Jensen, and we all know about CBS-era Fender "cost effectiveness" BTW, keep an eye on the classified ads, and look outside London if you can- if it's a Twin you end up wanting, they are *fairly* common, and can be had for less than what a Tin Pan Alley shop will sting you for. That said, old amps may cost you in repairs, just because of hard use and old age, and you'll have less comeback with private sellers than with a reputable shop that's not going anywhere. If you go that route, follow all the usual "buyer beware" guidance- avoid stuff that's obviously been tinkered with, find out how to tell when things are non-original, and budget for at least a once-over from someone who knows his electrical arse from his elbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CapnMarvel Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Wunjo music has 2 bandmasters to try. That's where I tried one and the price is alright. a bit more than a grand including the cabinet (huge one). They got a twin and a pro reverb (have to double check on that). The bandmaster was one of the most beautiful tone I've heard on a clean amp.But I wanna try a bassman as well and see how that goes. If you're looking for pure clean, the more watts the better for headroom. I can get my Bandmaster to overdrive at about 4 or 5, which is loud but not THAT loud. Still, it's got more headroom than a Deluxe or a Princeton. I've heard the Bassman actually has a nicer drive tone than the Bandmaster, but I've yet to independently confirm that. I'm speaking in generic Blackface terms here...I've played all of these amps in Blackface trim only, and only a few (like a sweet '70 Twin Reverb) in SF format. My Bandmaster is a 'black line' transitional model with the blackface circuit but silverface trim. And yes, it's a GORGEOUS clean tone from a Bandmaster. Just imagine that clean tone as loud as your ears can possibly stand, and that's a Twin Reverb/Dual Showman/Super for you, if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CapnMarvel Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 AFAIK, the Bandmaster is very similar to the Twin, but in piggyback form rather than a combo. Judging by the size and weight my old '76 Twin, it will be a bitch to cart around. Like a Cartman's mom type bitch. While from that point of view the Twin might be a better bet, bear in mind that the speakers can be variable in SF amps too- Fender used about half a dozen different suppliers for speakers (and JBLs as an optional upgrade), all of which got Fender stickers slapped on them, and all of which got used because they made more "cost effective" speakers than Jensen, and we all know about CBS-era Fender "cost effectiveness" BTW, keep an eye on the classified ads, and look outside London if you can- if it's a Twin you end up wanting, they are *fairly* common, and can be had for less than what a Tin Pan Alley shop will sting you for. That said, old amps may cost you in repairs, just because of hard use and old age, and you'll have less comeback with private sellers than with a reputable shop that's not going anywhere. If you go that route, follow all the usual "buyer beware" guidance- avoid stuff that's obviously been tinkered with, find out how to tell when things are non-original, and budget for at least a once-over from someone who knows his electrical arse from his elbow You're thinking of the Showman/Dual Showman - 100W The Bandmaster is 40W, IIRC.And yes, build in $100-200 to fix leaking caps, replace tubes, etc. in any vintage amp you buy. Add an additional $200-$300 if you want to upgrade speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daeveed Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I can get my Bandmaster to overdrive at about 4 or 5, which is loud but not THAT loud. Really?? I couldn't get past 3.5 with my Bandmaster Reverb at my practice last night....it was really loud. I got it to overdrive using an LPB1 in front of a Tone Press. I maxxed out the LPB1, and controlled the overall volume with the Tone Press....it worked OK....i need a FKR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 You're thinking of the Showman/Dual Showman - 100W The Bandmaster is 40W, IIRC. Yes, you're right. It says 50w for the bandmaster on FFG, but who's counting? Speaking of repairs, when I replaced the power tubes in my Twin, one of the resistors blew up, which resulted in a fairly inexpensive repair, but a bit of smoke, a nasty smell and a very worried owner for several days afterwards. It's well worth pre-empting these sort of age-related problems by getting the amp overhauled to begin with, although that sort of thing can affect its collector value. IMHO, musical equipment should be all about its useful value, not its collectibilty, but that's only because I can't afford noisy, shagged out old BF Fenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CapnMarvel Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Really?? I couldn't get past 3.5 with my Bandmaster Reverb at my practice last night....it was really loud. I got it to overdrive using an LPB1 in front of a Tone Press. I maxxed out the LPB1, and controlled the overall volume with the Tone Press....it worked OK....i need a FKR!!! Heh...I run it in stereo with a 50W JMP MKII Marshall half stack so, no....4 is not THAT loud. I usually run the BM about 2-3 to keep it clean, then OD it with a Rangemaster clone. Niiiiice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skipstar59 Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I am having a bit of a hard time finding out the differences between the different SF types out there. I tried a bandmaster that sounded absolutely beautiful, I know there are dual showmans as well out there, vibrolux, tremolux and bassman, twin reverb.Is it mainly the wattage/combo form that varies (apart from certain of those models having a vibrato or a tremolo)Do they all provide the same clean sound or are there differences in all of them (seriously notable differences)PS: I checked the fender field guide but it's more technical aspects than actual sonic explanations.Cheers Listen for yourself. I've recorded clips of alot of my Fenders through the same speakers, and for the most part I was able to dial them in to sound alike. This is mainly true for the clean tones. If you get them to overdrive, I think it's a different story. I recored some clips using the same Keeley Modded TS-9 through differnt amps using their own speakers,and they definitely had a differnt tone to them. It really comes down to the actual wattage and speakers being used. From what I've noticed doing all the clips, that's kinda what my take was. Here's the link to my soundclick page: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=633883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members handofthehost Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Bassman heads are very decent, solid, reliable, tweakable, and relatively inexpensive (especially silverface heads which are 'blackface-able'.) I've had one for about twelve years and I still love it, probably more now than ever. With the two channels, you can split your signal into different effects and recombine them in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daeveed Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 if you want to get a little grit out of it, jump the channels . how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CapnMarvel Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 how? Run a 1/4 inch cord from the second input from the Clean channel to the first input of the Vibe channel. You can do that on 4-input Marshalls too....all of my amps are jumped, now that I think about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theweight Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 how? Throw a patch cord from the second input of channel 1 to the first input of channel 2. Put your guitar in the first channel's other input and voila. You have extra gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members inscho Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Run a 1/4 inch cord from the second input from the Clean channel to the first input of the Vibe channel. You can do that on 4-input Marshalls too....all of my amps are jumped, now that I think about it!but you aren't suppose to do it with amps that have reverb.....but I'm not sure why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smrz Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 how? Plug into the low imput on one channel. Put a short cable into the high input of that chanel and the low imput of the other channel. So if the imputs look like this ::, you could plug into the left bottom one,. , and put the jumper across the channels, like this, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daeveed Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 thanks guys.... Inscho if you get any more info on why it shouldn't be done on amps with reverb, let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CapnMarvel Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 but you aren't suppose to do it with amps that have reverb.....but I'm not sure why.... Huh...never heard that one. My PA100 has reverb and my amp tech was the one who was all excited about the fact that I could daisy chain all 4 channels together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members inscho Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Huh...never heard that one. My PA100 has reverb and my amp tech was the one who was all excited about the fact that I could daisy chain all 4 channels together.hmm...I just remember an amp tech telling me that if you jump the channels on a fender amp with reverb...they'll be out of phase or something....I thought I read it somewhere, but I can't seem to find anything about it.maybe I'm crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted February 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 hmm...I just remember an amp tech telling me that if you jump the channels on a fender amp with reverb...they'll be out of phase or something....I thought I read it somewhere, but I can't seem to find anything about it. maybe I'm crazy probably due to the reverb level. I take it if you don't have any reverb on, the wave of the reverb won't affect the signal. Skipstar, cheers for the link. I get the see a bit of it all and see how it all works together and how the different ones are voiced. I think that when I can afford it, I will turn towards a twin reverb or a head that has those propreties. edit: The Deluxe reverb does sound nice as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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