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OT:Are you a Christian?


Liberty Belle

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Sorry, but faith is limited to belief systems. Atheism lets go, accepts personal responsibility, and as a result, faith-based "believers" must attack by projecting their own fears onto Atheism. From the prospective of the "believers," "God forbid Atheism becomes the norm," because Atheism has no need for a collection plate. Once the profit from religious belief is destroyed, religion collapses. Follow the money.

 

 

Its interesting that the number one thing I ever hear from atheists about religion is that its all about money. I'm a minister, I earn 200 a week and have to drive an hour each way to get to my congregation 2-3 times a week. After tithe, gas, meals away from home, and self-employment tax (which all ministers have to pay, in the US anyway), I net about 90 dollars a week. Yeah, I'm getting rich...FAST. I have to work 2 other jobs in order to provide for my family. And I'm in the norm. Look at the statistics, the vast majority of ministers in this country don't get paid a living wage. While some of the money given to the church is used to pay salary and normal expenses (office supplies, electric bill, etc), the vast majority of what is left over is invested back into the community in some way, shape, or form.

 

Its also interesting your comment about personal responsibility. In the Christian faith a true believer must take responsibility for their actions, own up to their mistakes, and accept their flaws. Then take positive action to actively seek a closer relationship to God while rejecting all those things that draw them away ...for the rest of their lives. Its not easy. Its certainly not a free ride. But that might be the difference between having faith and belonging to a religion.

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^^ joined HC to add to this thread eh? Welcome to the forums!

 

I agree, i know many people that work in the ministry full time and none that i know are rich. i live in edmonton, and many pastors make around 30-40k per year. Pretty hard to raise a family on that when its hard to find a house here for less than 400k.

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Its interesting that the number one thing I ever hear from atheists about religion is that its all about money. I'm a minister, I earn 200 a week and have to drive an hour each way to get to my congregation 2-3 times a week. After tithe, gas, meals away from home, and self-employment tax (which all ministers have to pay, in the US anyway), I net about 90 dollars a week. Yeah, I'm getting rich...FAST. I have to work 2 other jobs in order to provide for my family. And I'm in the norm. Look at the statistics, the vast majority of ministers in this country don't get paid a living wage. While some of the money given to the church is used to pay salary and normal expenses (office supplies, electric bill, etc), the vast majority of what is left over is invested back into the community in some way, shape, or form.


Its also interesting your comment about personal responsibility. In the Christian faith a true believer must take responsibility for their actions, own up to their mistakes, and accept their flaws. Then take positive action to actively seek a closer relationship to God while rejecting all those things that draw them away ...for the rest of their lives. Its not easy. Its certainly not a free ride. But that might be the difference between having faith and belonging to a religion.

 

 

I'm not saying Atheism is for everyone. I am saying that Atheism is often attacked by religion. Atheists aren't trying to stop faith, they just have no need for it. Your small congregation, raising money to help the community is doing positive things, but there are huge religious organizations out there raising billions in wealth that are dealing with massive corruption as we type.

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Your small congregation, raising money to help the community is doing positive things, but there are huge religious organizations out there raising billions in wealth that are dealing with massive corruption as we type.

 

 

I'll agree with that. And it makes me cringe when I see that gold plated piano on TBN because I know it just fuels the fire. But you have to decide if you are attacking these huge organizations (as some of your comments would lead me to believe), or if you are attacking people of faith (as some of your comments would also lead me to believe). Because for a person of faith, it is important to tithe to the church. And most of the churches out there, 90% of the congregational population in America, attends small churches like mine...which is basically people living below the poverty line giving to a church that barely makes ends meet itself. (Yes, there are megachurches, but I can count those on one hand, and there are several hundred medium to large sized churches in the US that do good work and are able to pay their ministers a good salary). To make the claim that religion is all about money, to follow the money, is just plain wrong. Its also wrong to say that if the money were gone, religion would follow...religion predates money, and even today religion exists in places that money does not.

 

Either way, I'd buy an Ooh Wah from you, but 90 bucks doesn't go far. Thats probably religion's fault as well.

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Theres def. alot of coruption in the church today, and I know when you see the pastor of some mega church caught with a gay prostitute, and meth. That it really hurts peoples opinion of the church as a whole. Now that I've said that. I wonder in america (alone) whats the ratio of people in these mega churchs vs. people in a church like the one I attend. The church that I goto does numerous things in our community and in many others around the world. We feed and give the homeless blankets, help the childrens shelters, given money to needy families, provided struggling couples with jobs and food, and many other things that affects the world around us. The preacher and all of the staff also maintain regular jobs during the week, and I can assure there isn't enough money taken up in the collection plate to fund much corruption. Especially with all the things we do to help others. I have not been a christian very long but I have had things happen to me that there is no other way to explain. Thats the reason I believe in god. For me to be where I am and have the things I do (family, happiness... I am not measuring my life by the amount of shiny things I own) with the circumstances I have came from leaves me with no other answer. I don't want to make a blanket statement about atheists. However one thing I have noticed is that with most of the ones I know they tend to place blame on others when they make a mistake, and whenever they do something right their the only ones that had anything to do with it.

As for the evolution thing. I completely believe in it. There was another poster who said there was no direct link between the big bang and evolution.... I don't see how you can't draw a parallel. After the big bang the universe went through SO MANY changes, and evolved into the one we barely know today. At one time a larger planet which I believe was called Tiamet collided with earth. After this happened pieces of it formed the moon. Then the earth went through a period where thousands of asteroids were hitting the planet constantly (ever wondered about the craters on the moon?). These rocks brought us elements that weren't previously here. Now at this time the moon was still very close to the earth and its gravitational pull was much stronger. So strong in fact that waves were hundreds of feet tall, and that it actually pulled whatever part of the planet it was closest to out towards it (where the planet was egg shapped). This along with the new elements on the planet mixed and churned in the turbulent seas and created the first single celled organisms. It was these creatures that the rest of life on planet earth grew from. There are a FEW holes in the theory of evolution but with more time and more fossils I am confident that we will piece together the puzzle of how we got here. So how is it that the Big Bang and Evolution aren't related again?

All of that being said. Once again I am a christian that believes in evolution. How one might ask? Since I DO believe in god I feel he is all knowing, and to those who say the earth is only 5,000 years old.... Come on? You can't argue with science it's proven fact. They can study the patina and accurately date objects.... Carbon dating too??? The way I like to *think* is that god designed everything from the big bang till now intelligently, and that we are the height of his plan. The finished product I guess. Thats not to say IF we can stay around long enough things won't change some more. I just haven't ever liked the view of creationists. It's just like... One day 5,000 years ago god got a wild hair snapped his fingers and everything came into existence. Even with an all powerful being you would think it would take some planning and thought.

Anyways for what it's worth thats my 2 cents.

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As it turns out, I read books too (who'd have thought!), but sadly you can't send books over teh internets.
:(

I didn't, and don't now want to start a fight. I never assumed you wanted to convert people or something, I was just mystified by your claims, which sounded straight up wrong to me.

If you can really address any of my points,
I'd gladly be corrected, but I'm just being dodged here ("shut up! I don't owe you an explanation!" "This isn't what I started this thread for!" "
You
interpreted
me
wrong! Trust me, I know this stuff.") .

 

your not being "dodged", i never intended to get into this with anyone so i'm not going to continue it is all.

if you still feel your being dodged well put it down to the fact that i don't give a {censored} about you enough to change your mind on it!

 

But whatever, you don't owe me anything.

Exactly!

I'm probably being quite childish here. I am sorry for hardcore derailing your thread. It's cool for people to have faith, I just have a problem when I see clear mistakes or inaccuracies that seem to provide, as I mentioned before, equal playing field for the possibility of scientific fact and faith. All the worse when someone claims to be an expert in the subject. That or maybe I'm just an internet arsehole.

No i'm no expert but i know what i'm on about as i studied the {censored} for around 3 years as an atheist then agnostic so i'm bound to learn a fact or two in that time wouldn't ya think.

I say "believe me" as in, take it that i know what i'm on about, not take my word for it. And yes, you are being an asshole so stop keeping this {censored} going as i'm not interested in proving anything to anyone, its not my position to and to be honest i couldn't give a {censored} what you or anyone else thinks about this that or the other!

 

 

To address this thread's main point:

"ARE YOU A JESUS BELIEVER!"


I believe the man existed.

I believe he might have had some very interesting things to say.

I believe he might have been a good and wise man.

I don't believe he performed miracles.

I don't believe he was the result of a virgin birth.

I don't believe he needs to be worshipped.


Numbers 2 & 3 for me are hard to gauge considering I'm not 100% on the historical accuracy of Jesus's life within the Bible.


That's more than enough out of me.

 

Yes it is so STFU n00b!

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Theres def. alot of coruption in the church today, and I know when you see the pastor of some mega church caught with a gay prostitute, and meth. That it really hurts peoples opinion of the church as a whole. Now that I've said that. I wonder in america (alone) whats the ratio of people in these mega churchs vs. people in a church like the one I attend. The church that I goto does numerous things in our community and in many others around the world. We feed and give the homeless blankets, help the childrens shelters, given money to needy families, provided struggling couples with jobs and food, and many other things that affects the world around us. The preacher and all of the staff also maintain regular jobs during the week, and I can assure there isn't enough money taken up in the collection plate to fund much corruption. Especially with all the things we do to help others. I have not been a christian very long but I have had things happen to me that there is no other way to explain. Thats the reason I believe in god. For me to be where I am and have the things I do (family, happiness... I am not measuring my life by the amount of shiny things I own) with the circumstances I have came from leaves me with no other answer. I don't want to make a blanket statement about atheists. However one thing I have noticed is that with most of the ones I know they tend to place blame on others when they make a mistake, and whenever they do something right their the only ones that had anything to do with it.


As for the evolution thing. I completely believe in it. There was another poster who said there was no direct link between the big bang and evolution.... I don't see how you can't draw a parallel. After the big bang the universe went through SO MANY changes, and evolved into the one we barely know today. At one time a larger planet which I believe was called Tiamet collided with earth. After this happened pieces of it formed the moon. At this time the earth went through a period where thousands of asteroids were hitting the planet constantly. These rocks brought us elements that weren't previously here. Now at this time the moon was still very close to the earth and its gravitational pull was much stronger. So strong in fact that waves were hundreds of feet tall, and that it actually pulled whatever part of the planet it was closest to out towards it (where the planet was egg shapped). This along with the new elements on the planet mixed and churned in the turbulent seas and created the first single celled organisms. It was these creatures that the rest of life on planet earth grew from. There are a FEW holes in the theory of evolution but with more time and more fossils I am confident that we will piece together the puzzle of how we got here. So how is it that the Big Bang and Evolution aren't related again?


All of that being said. Once again I am a christian that believes in evolution. How one might ask? Since I DO believe in god I feel he is all knowing, and to those who say the earth is only 5,000 years old.... Come on? You can't argue with science it's proven fact. They can study the patina and accurately date objects.... Carbon dating too??? The way I like to *think* is that god designed everything from the big bang till know intelligently, and that we are the height of his plan. The finished product I guess. Thats not to say IF we can stay around long enough things won't change some more. I just haven't ever liked the view of creationists. It's just like... One day 5,000 years ago god got a wild hair snapped his fingers and everything came into existence. Even with an all powerful being you would think it would take some planning and thought.


Anyways for what it's worth thats my 2 cents.



you know what? for someone who considers themself a 'christian' you seen pretty cool to me, it's a pity more don't think the way you do. I can see there is a balance and logical thought in your views, and you aren't just believing everything you are told without question, good on you.

I like your style, it's non judgemental on the whole and it's also not so confrontational that it alienates others with other beliefs. I think people just need to respect each other a bit and we would all get on pretty well. :)

I'll tell you what bothers me most (and I'm talking to you, not anyone else before they decide to chip in) Is when people tell me i'm basically going to hell...when I'm a good person, I help others when I can, I have 2 children that I think I am bringing up to be good decent humans, I have a loving partner who I love and cherish more than anything, I respect all people of all race and religion, creed and colour, etc. I'm a veggie because I don't want animals to be abused by the people who run our meat industry..etc etc etc...

but because I'm not married I'm a sinner, I'm a bad person and I'm going to hell....what kind of god would do that to someone like me? :confused:

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melx, i hate these "christians" that lay on the sinner {censored}, its crap and i never understood how a baby could be a "natural sinner" {censored},its brand new and aint even breathed but its a nasty nasty being, gimme a {censored}ing break.

extremists are on both sides tho...like as soon as an atheist hears someone believes in god they feel a need to make fun of you, your god or break you down some other way, this is a horrible {censored}ing personality trait imo and i never done it as an atheist.

same as religious extremists "you'l go to hell if ya dont accept jebus!" fear tactics is all that is!

see, i believe what i believe because i've done my research and came to the conclusion ive came to, not because i was told anything by anyone!

i hate people that preach "no god" and "god" yet dont know wtf they are on about, they dont understand ToE* or anything else for that matter yet they assume they are right.

as i've said before, what it comes down to is that people DO have the right to believe what ever they want so people should stop being cunts and respect that!

i understand all sides of belief,non belief as i was an atheist for 25 years,and agnostic for 3 and a believer for one.
if 25 years as an atheist doesn't buy me any credit in the atheist community then nothing will and just shows their stupidity!


*theory of evolution.

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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

As said in my title, "Point taken". Although,,,,,,, the belief in a higher power, in my case God/Jesus may indeed require "extraordinary evidence" to those that do not have faith. Religion of any sort relies on faith to pertuate it's existence and I for one don't believe that we are her by chance. Whats the latest, greatest cliche? Intelligent design. On the other hand those that believe in the "Big Bang" need to rely on faith as well, since that particular theory is founded on what is known as "theoretical physics" (key word theoretical) The God I believe in gave us free will. To believe or not to believe. So whether you believe in a higher power or you choose to believe in evolution (which I do give some credibility to) and evolution does take in the Big Bang, you have freedon to believe as you see fit. What I believe teaches me to not judge others. Not for their beliefs or for any reason. Judgement is reserved for God, not for man. With that said, none of us in this forum should condemn any others for their beliefs of lack thereof.

 

Just a thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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christian tolerance is a typical religious myth, im not tolerant of anyone,i dont go to church and a hardly ever read a bible so whats ya point?!?!


btw, classic comeback, "christian tolerance in action", so stereotypical of people to say {censored} like that. those that arent religious claim to be soooo open minded

 

 

So, you rag on aethiests for not being tolerant of Christians, but you can't be tolerant of them.

 

Or, are you one of those Christians who actually think people who don't believe what you do or going to wind up in hell?

 

I'm just not that superstitious of a person. It's why I'm not scared of the number 13 or black cats or whatever. Except for walking under ladders. That {censored}'s dangerous.

 

 

yet they are always the first to throw sarcasm & taunts around.

 

 

Only because its fun.

 

 

precisely one of the reasons i'm anti-social, the majority of society sucks, have their heads up their ass and have no idea of whats going on in the world. ( no, not religion ) love to consume and admire all their "stuff", go to work to buy more "stuff" make sure their better than everyone else with all their "stuff" and have no idea about life as theirs revolves around consuming.


consumers are like zombies, dead but still operating.


:poke:

 

 

So, basically you're ragging on America?

 

 

i'm not american,i'm australian although i had a very americanized childhood and have always felt more american than australian, besides my accent i have nothing in common with australia.

 

 

Explains a lot. :countryenvy:

 

 

science is great and i love it but believing science has all the answers you would be mistaken.goes for religion too.

 

 

Why do so many people treat science like its another form of religion?

 

 

an example is the theory of evolution,its not even a theory when you actually study it and learn the basis of it all, its a hypothesis and a bad one at that.

 

 

It's actually a lot of observations, which are core to the concept of science.

 

 

i''ll say it again:"first there was nothing, then it exploded and formed everything" great little saying init?!?!?

 

 

This isn't evolution. You're trying to explain the big bang theory. There's actual scientific evidence that an explosion created the universe.

 

 

i'm not under the impression science or religion needs to know everything because we as humans can never know everything, its impossible.

but its a fact that science does not know everything, its also a fact that scientists are wrong more often than they are right, that is good science.

this doesn't prove anything other than whats stated but it does leave open a possibility for a spiritual world and a creator, to deny this possibility is arrogant and means you assume you know everything, which as stated, is impossible!

 

 

Just because scientists don't know everything (or ever could) doesn't mean they are automatically wrong. Also, I'll go witht he people who are continuing to try to discover the answers to the universe.

 

 

people are quick to jump on others and point out there short comings and make fun

 

 

True, but only because it's fun.

 

 

the way i see it there are three possibilities of how we could have got here:


either we evolved by pure chance, i find this a remarkable claim as the complexity of the universe, our planet, plants, our bodies, DNA etc is huge, basically incomprehensible to us.(as mentioned earlier,check out the "golden ratio" its quite amazing!)

we were created by a higher being, which raises more questions about how it got here also. I find that irrelevant as we must answer one question at a time and not get a head of ourselves.

and finally, the one i find less likely but still give it credit for a possibility, is that we were planted here by another humanoid type species from another planet.

one of these must be correct because theres no other way we could have came to be here is there?!!?!?!?


so if one of these methods is correct and we cant prove without a doubt any of them are incorrect, doesn't that mean all are as possible as one another?!?!

 

 

No.

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So, you rag on aethiests for not being tolerant of Christians, but you can't be tolerant of them.


Or, are you one of those Christians who actually think people who don't believe what you do or going to wind up in hell?


I'm just not that superstitious of a person. It's why I'm not scared of the number 13 or black cats or whatever. Except for walking under ladders. That {censored}'s dangerous.




Only because its fun.




So, basically you're ragging on America?




Explains a lot. :countryenvy:




Why do so many people treat science like its another form of religion?




It's actually a lot of observations, which are core to the concept of science.




This isn't evolution. You're trying to explain the big bang theory. There's actual scientific evidence that an explosion created the universe.




Just because scientists don't know everything (or ever could) doesn't mean they are automatically wrong. Also, I'll go witht he people who are continuing to try to discover the answers to the universe.




True, but only because it's fun.




No.

 

 

rather than breakdown and quote all you post i'll say this.and its the last post i will do in this thread as its ridiculous considering the OP question, which is a simple yes or no answer!

 

I am 29, i was an atheist for 25 year,agonstic for 3 and now i believe there is a god.

I dont care what you or anyone thinks or believes, its your business not mine.

 

I'm not tolerant of people in general and what they believe has nothing to do with it.

 

the bigbang theory and evolution are connected significantly and those that say they are not are severely mistaken.

 

you say theres evidence for an explosion? yes, maybe so but how does NOTHING explode let alone form everything in existence?

 

you also twist my words:

"Just because scientists don't know everything (or ever could) doesn't mean they are automatically wrong. Also, I'll go witht he people who are continuing to try to discover the answers to the universe." when i said this:

 

i'm not under the impression science or religion needs to know everything because we as humans can never know everything, its impossible.

but its a fact that science does not know everything, its also a fact that scientists are wrong more often than they are right, that is good science.

this doesn't prove anything other than whats stated but it does leave open a possibility for a spiritual world and a creator, to deny this possibility is arrogant and means you assume you know everything, which as stated, is impossible!

 

you are grasping at straws because nothing you said has any substance!

 

i love science, its great and if it proved there was no god i'd believe it but it cant and thats not why i believe either, i have my own reasons for that.

no one can prove god either but individuals believe for different reasons, usual because something has convinced them god is real.

(brainwashed excluded, naturally as they have no idea what they believe)

 

if a supernatural world exists it cant be proven as its supernatural, this is pretty simple and its perfectly understandable to doubt its existence unless you've actually been touched by it.

 

 

you are a smart ass hypocrite, "cause its fun", you obviously care nothing for anyone yet you get defensive as i basically say all of america are zombie consumers. well, if the hat fits!

 

truth is very important to me and i dont give one {censored} what that truth is, i put all personal feelings aside for truth cause if truth is meaningless then life is meaningless.

 

Basically i think your a cock sure idiot that thinks he knows things but actually you dont know {censored}! see, i have a few years of study in theology/evolution under my belt so i dont rely on half truths and outright inaccuracies.

 

By no means am i saying i know everything as i dont, but i do know what i know and i know it to be the truth.

 

no one can prove god is real/not real!

no one can prove evolution and the bigbang are real/not real

these are facts, like it or not they remain true and if you doubt it show me undeniable evidence that i'm wrong and i'll look into it and see whats going on!

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way too much effort there capn for someone who's basically going to tell you to shut up, "reasoning" that he doesn't need to explain anything he says to anyone. I learned the hard way.


:wave:


you obviously dont learn as i said this thread is NOT about what you are making it to be.
and if you read my last few posts you can easily understand what i'm about, if not then i will assume you to be either an idiot or just a smart ass provocateur!

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i will assume you to be either an idiot or just a smart ass provocateur!

 

 

a little from column A, a little from column B

:poke:

 

P.S.

 

no one can prove evolution and the bigbang are real/not real

 

this is just plain mystifying.

 

 

i hate people that preach "no god" and "god" yet dont know wtf they are on about, they dont understand ToE

 

ultra hippocritical here *smirk*

 

Also, I don't quite get how the "I was an atheist for 25 years!" argument works. I'm pretty sure time doesn't qualify you as any kind of expert.

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something i've observed from frequenting forums as an atheist and a believer is that non-believers like to mock believers, i wonder why...
its strange to me as i dont mock anyone unless they've personally done something to me even then i'd sooner belt them up than mock them.


I'm sure hard core christians would say its cause they are satans devils or something similar but i just see it as discrimination, much like racism.It takes qualities like a weird mentality, personal insecurities and low self esteem to be a racist. i assume this goes for discrimination also.

People need to be good human beings rather than make fun of people for a laugh, it de-values life!

btw, since all you assholes that make fun of other peoples beliefs feel so good mocking people why not visit the best place for it, they'll give you a run for your money!

internet infidels

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yeah, I'm a member at iidb.

 

anyway, if that's directed at me, I have no idea why. any criticisms I've launched at you have had nothing to do with your faith.

 

if not, I agree somewhat. the arrogant atheist does exist. I'm definitely guilty of being him on occasion. they can be total cunts, but I do wonder if they're any worse than your falwell's and other garden-variety bat{censored} crazy evangelicals.

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I'm not saying Atheism is for everyone. I am saying that Atheism is often attacked by religion. Atheists aren't trying to stop faith, they just have no need for it. Your small congregation, raising money to help the community is doing positive things, but there are huge religious organizations out there raising billions in wealth that are dealing with massive corruption as we type.

 

 

Funny, I am also a pastor of a small inner-city church and also have another job to pay the bills. There are a few mega churches in my area, but the vast majority are tiny, little struggling churches like mine. I serve the small church because I love it and not because I want money out of it. I would have to go on welfare on the salary I make at my church. Our church runs a soup kitchen (although we call it a community dinner), a thrift shop, a pantry, and distribute items like tooth brushes, diapers, and other items to people (because food stamps don't pay for these things). We are planning on starting a homeless shelter. I have friends and close family members that are atheists. I even have a few people who attend my church that are agnostics. I am a subscriber to the Skeptic magazine and have read Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris and Dan Dennett. I don't have enough energy with two jobs and a family to spend bashing people, particularly atheists. I can understand the pain that religion (and particularly Christian churches) has caused and the hypocrisy. I see such corruption and hypocrisy all the time, but not just in churches. I see it in business corporations and nonprofit corporations and on music discussion boards. I have been hypocritical myself. I guess it is, to use Dawkins term, a meme that is part of human nature. However, often times the people say things like "Atheists are angry people" or "Christians are intolerant" or "Religion is corrupt" when they mean to say: "I know one atheist and he is angry" or "Pat Robertson is really intolerant" or "The fraudulent television healing preacher is corrupt." Yes, there are churches and temples and synagogues raking in billions of dollars, but I think in America, the vast majority of those in pews belong to these small, struggling moderate churches that are just getting by.

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you know what? for someone who considers themself a 'christian' you seen pretty cool to me, it's a pity more don't think the way you do. I can see there is a balance and logical thought in your views, and you aren't just believing everything you are told without question, good on you.


I like your style, it's non judgemental on the whole and it's also not so confrontational that it alienates others with other beliefs. I think people just need to respect each other a bit and we would all get on pretty well.
:)

I'll tell you what bothers me most (and I'm talking to you, not anyone else before they decide to chip in) Is when people tell me i'm basically going to hell...when I'm a good person, I help others when I can, I have 2 children that I think I am bringing up to be good decent humans, I have a loving partner who I love and cherish more than anything, I respect all people of all race and religion, creed and colour, etc. I'm a veggie because I don't want animals to be abused by the people who run our meat industry..etc etc etc...


but because I'm not married I'm a sinner, I'm a bad person and I'm going to hell....what kind of god would do that to someone like me?
:confused:



You may not like my response... but I am going to give it to you straight. God doesn't send anyone to hell. The fact that he does is a common misconception about christianity from non believers (its also one of the things people look down on religion for... they feel its unfair). Let me ask you this. If you do not believe heaven exists then what interest do you have in going there? *He gave us free will so we can decide our own fate. You can choose to believe or not. *However if someone has told you about god and you choose not to believe (even if your a good person) then you can't *"enter the kingdom of ever lasting life". If your an atheist then what christians say shouldn't really matter to you. I assume your just asking though because your average christian beats that into the ground whenever they talk to an atheist. I've heard the *"oh we'll pray for you" and the *"your going to hell for that" spill numerous times throughout my life. The bottom line is that your a good person (I don't know you but from what you posted that is). However without faith you won't go to heaven.

Also on my long winded post I left out my favorite part :). In Genesis (first book of the bible) it says on the first day good created the heaven and the earth (sounds like the big bang). Then it was several "days" before god created man. God even created animals before man. Now in the bible it also says that to God "a thousand years is a day, or a day can be a thousand years" (time to god is different). So I feel like alot more time elapsed than a day during creation. This would further back the whole *"intelligen design" thing.

"Whats the latest, greatest cliche? Intelligent design." I believe that Lucid guy said this. Cliche huh? Hmm... So a new idea that has actually mixed science and religion to some what justify creation and evolution as the same thing are cliche? Whatever you want to think. I personally find it a much more plausible explanation than: God snapped his fingers and we were all here fully evolved and all of the evidence of civilizations that existed prior to 5,000 years ago is a lie created by scientists to disprove religion, and even dinosaur fossils frozen in permafrost for a 1,000,000 years with pictures taken at the dig site from discovery until excavation is finished are all a hoax, and we're right and science is a sham. I acutally know people who believe that way and it's sad. I might be a christian but I am not borderline retarded.



* - this means that it's someone else words not my own.

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You may not like my response... but I am going to give it to you straight. God doesn't send anyone to hell. The fact that he does is a common misconception about christianity from non believers (its also one of the things people look down on religion for... they feel its unfair). Let me ask you this. If you do not believe heaven exists then what interest do you have in going there? *He gave us free will so we can decide our own fate. You can choose to believe or not. *However if someone has told you about god and you choose not to believe (even if your a good person) then you can't *"enter the kingdom of ever lasting life". If your an atheist then what christians say shouldn't really matter to you. I assume your just asking though because your average christian beats that into the ground whenever they talk to an atheist. I've heard the *"oh we'll pray for you" and the *"your going to hell for that" spill numerous times throughout my life. The bottom line is that your a good person (I don't know you but from what you posted that is). However without faith you won't go to heaven.


Also on my long winded post I left out my favorite part
:)
. In Genesis (first book of the bible) it says on the first day good created the heaven and the earth (sounds like the big bang). Then it was several "days" before god created man. God even created animals before man. Now in the bible it also says that to God "a thousand years is a day, or a day can be a thousand years" (time to god is different). So I feel like alot more time elapsed than a day during creation. This would further back the whole *"intelligen design" thing.


"Whats the latest, greatest cliche? Intelligent design." I believe that Lucid guy said this. Cliche huh? Hmm... So a new idea that has actually mixed science and religion to some what justify creation and evolution as the same thing are cliche? Whatever you want to think. I personally find it a much more plausible explanation than: God snapped his fingers and we were all here fully evolved and all of the evidence of civilizations that existed prior to 5,000 years ago is a lie created by scientists to disprove religion, and even dinosaur fossils frozen in permafrost for a 1,000,000 years with pictures taken at the dig site from discovery until excavation is finished are all a hoax, and we're right and science is a sham. I acutally know people who believe that way and it's sad. I might be a christian but I am not borderline retarded.




* - this means that it's someone else words not my own.



No, your answer is fine, it just doesn't make any sense to me...I can't believe in a god that would rather have horrible people up in heaven with him, than good people just because they believed in him and said sorry for all the awful things they did before they got there....in fact if that is true then I'm glad i'm not going.

I guess i'm not an atheist in the true sense, but I don't believe in a creator, I don't believe there is someone watching over us. I do think there may be some sort of afterlife, but I don't believe that anything or anyone decides who goes there, and I also think that it would be so different from our reality here that no one could even begin to possibly imagine what it might be like.

I don't believe we are anymore important than any other species on the planet, probably where my non-religion comes from because every religion seems to believe that humans are the most important animals. If monkeys don't go to heaven then i'm pretty sure I won't be either. When I look into the eyes of a chimp, they are animals the same as us and as important to the planet as we are....and obviously due to the size of the universe I don't think we are anymore important than other life forms that may exist across it.

But you're right at the end of the day it doesn't matter to me, I just find it interesting to hear others views and opinions. I'm interested in christian beliefs as I am interested in other religions, political thought, philosophy and scientific theories in the same way. I enjoy exploring the possibilities. :)

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