The use of Equipment, putting the BS myths to rest

[NoirAbattoir]

Oh brother... That does about sum it up I got branded as such because when guys talk about the best reverb and delay (and don't put a price cap on their selections) and discuss Electro Harmonix Holy Grail, or Line 6 delays or DD20's I correctly put the REAL what is the BEST answers: AMS, TC Electronic 2290, Eventide H8000FW, Lexicon etc... and they guys who don't like that, complain that the gear I listed is ridiculously expensive (and it is). Boo hoo, it's still true and they hate that they can't have it and that I do

The Holy Grail is an outstanding facsimile of spring reverb tone. Just because it didn't cost an arm and a leg doesn't mean it isn't the best option for someone. {censored}, this is where the pretentious tag comes from. Look at the last two lines of your post. I own a Bogner Shiva, a Budda Superdrive 18, and a Fender Hot Rod '52 Telecaster. I could afford a $2,000 dollar rack reverb processor if I wanted, but the Holy Grail sounds fantastic. I guess it just goes to show what's really driving your rack urges: sheer economic elitism.

[slight-return]

pics, videos or clips or it didn't happen

that makes me abt 8 years old (I figure about 80% of signifigant events in my life wern't/arent subject to mechanical recording of really any kind - only in the past half-decade have I gotten comfortable with photographs of myself in social situations...I used to be pretty good at being 'indisposed' during picture time.)


[i guess Im neiter fish nor foul as I think McDermott Hall is in high running for "best reverb"]

[therhodeo]

I correctly put the REAL what is the BEST answers: AMS, TC Electronic 2290, Eventide H8000FW, Lexicon etc... .

I was going to let it rest till this. How can you type crap like this and not understand why people think you're pretentious asshole (I was only half joking in my last post ).

[cutsman]

Not at all. When using a switching system you don't have to concern yourself with things like True bypass, because in a switching system the pedal that is not in use is physically removed from the signal chain all together, and the capacitive loading that can result, even if all the pedals are true bypass (rare) is not a point of contention, add to that the ability to turn on/off several pedals at once with one button press, and you have a lot of benefit for someone who may like using a lot of different pedals to get the sounds they prefer.

 

people dont only mod pedals for true bypass though.

 

like i said. the functionality is [probably] better, but to use the prices some use on boutique/modded pedals is a pretty weak argument to justify spending a lot more for a rack system. if they liked the sound of a particular modded/boutique pedal, they'd still mod/buy boutique pedals to use in a rack system. spending so much, its pretty understandable why they wouldn't wanna dish out more money for one of those systems.

[Zachman]

 

The Holy Grail is an outstanding facsimile of spring reverb tone. Just because it didn't cost an arm and a leg doesn't mean it isn't the best option for someone. {censored}, this is where the pretentious tag comes from. Look at the last two lines of your post. I own a Bogner Shiva, a Budda Superdrive 18, and a Fender Hot Rod '52 Telecaster. I could afford a $2,000 dollar rack reverb processor if I wanted, but the Holy Grail sounds fantastic. I guess it just goes to show what's really driving your rack urges: sheer economic elitism.

 

 

Again, I NEVER took issue with a given pedal being an acceptable solution, (except for that one time re: the Zoom gear, and I was mainly discussing their processors) Hate those noisy lo-fi POS units. Rather the concept of BEST (When NO price cap is given). Again, I have posted so many times that expensive isn't the measure for what can work well and achieve GREAT results, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU and others, try to paint that picture, it'll NEVER be true, and it NEVER WAS.

 

RE: what is driving my rack, I didn't pay retail for ANYTHING in my rack, and IF you are saying that the quality of gear that I chose is sub-par, well than you are in the dark. The gear I selected was selected for it's quality, features and sound. (PRICE was NOT a point of contention, the only thing that mattered was that is was the BEST, at doing what I wanted). Don't like it fine, fair enough. I didn't want to nor have to compromise, as I'd done that for far long enough, so I designed the setup I have and selected the components accordingly. I say it's not likely you've got any experience with most of it, and until you do, your negative take is pretty meaningless.

 

Try at least, if you're going to bash me for something, to get your facts straight.

[RitalinCupcake]

...And God could not stand the sound of the world He created, so He sent his second son down to spread the word of tone, only to have him crucified by the pedal using non believers. After three days he rose again and... well, to get the rest you'll have to buy the book.

Merry Zachmas everybody!

[Zachman]

better, but to use the prices some use on boutique/modded pedals is a pretty weak argument to justify spending a lot more for a rack system. if they liked the sound of a particular modded/boutique pedal, they'd still mod/buy boutique pedals to use in a rack system. spending so much, its pretty understandable why they wouldn't wanna dish out more money for one of those systems.

 

I understand what you think I am advocating, though I think you, like others, missed the point entirely.

 

You can have a rack setup using all pedals, for your processing and run them MORE efficiently through a switching system for a bunch of reasons. THAT was my point.

 

SEE: Granted this is elaborate, but it doesn't have to be as insane as this is...

 

[cutsman]

yes. i think everyone understands that you can do that and its functionality is superior. but it's still expensive. but apparently the ability to be more functional is all that matters to you because when someone tries to bring up price you don't wanna hear it.

[slash81291]

zach, do you hate me because I run 9 pedals in series

Really though, if I had the coin Id own a nice switching system, a shat load of amps not just a DSL.

But then again, if youd like to help a broke high schooler out, I could use a new amp!

[Zachman]

 

...And God could not stand the sound of the world He created, so He sent his second son down to spread the word of tone, only to have him crucified by the pedal using non believers. After three days he rose again and... well, to get the rest you'll have to buy the book. Merry Zachmas everybody!

 

 

Cupcake... Too bad you don't put forth the effort into helping guys to maximize their results, as you do at acting like a troll. This place would be better off.

 

The fact that when I was starting out, like most everyone, I didn't know what was what, and was lucky enough to have some people bother to take the time to explain things to me, and that helped me to avoid potentially expensive mistakes, that' I'd have made otherwise.

 

Helping guys figure out how to get their gear to operate efficiently, or at all, in some cases, make gear selections toward their personal goals, etc... is my way of paying back those people's acts of generosity, kindness and patience with their knowledge who helped me, in the beginning, by doing the same for others.

[mueller]

zachman, what's your favorite song? just curious.

 

i haven't really read the whole thread but i think you're probably trying to make a good point, i have never personally tried any rack equipment and never really planned on it...it seems like something that belongs in the studio to me. but the kind of music i like i feel needs more spontaneity and quick tweaking, more of a soundscape or mood than an awesome lead tone. i don't know if i could afford rack gear, i honestly have never even looked into it.

 

on a side note, i would get lost easier here than with a normal pedalboard

[Zachman]

zach, do you hate me because I run 9 pedals in series Really though, if I had the coin Id own a nice switching system, a shat load of amps not just a DSL. But then again, if youd like to help a broke high schooler out, I could use a new amp!

Oh stop it.

It's not that it's required... anymore that a Ferrari is, for someone who needs a car. But Ferrari's sure are cool, and I realize that there are people that don't care about them or get it, but, that doesn't mean that my passion should be silenced.

The fact is there is no substitute for experience, and as your experience with music, gear, and preferences grow and change, and they will, the things you learn from running things the way you do, will help shape the way you creatively come up w/ solutions in the future.

Back when I started, there was no such thing as MIDI rack switchers etc... The guys who had the killer tone kept how they did it a secret. I am just opening the Book of Secrets if you will, for what is available and being done today.

[Zachman]

zachman, what's your favorite song? just curious. i haven't really read the whole thread but i think you're probably trying to make a good point, i have never personally tried any rack equipment and never really planned on it...it seems like something that belongs in the studio to me. but the kind of music i like i feel needs more spontaneity and quick tweaking, more of a soundscape or mood than an awesome lead tone. i don't know if i could afford rack gear, i honestly have never even looked into it. on a side note, i would get lost easier here than with a normal pedalboard

Music for me is a mood thing, so I don't know that I have a favorite song, per se'.

There is definitely a learning curve associated with using equipment, but suggest that the gear, are tools of the trade that you should learn how to use, whether in a guitar rack, or for when you get into the studio and have the opportunity to make the most of your production results, by using the gear that is there, for the using.

Here are a few sound samples of what types of sounds are available with some rack processing, and some knowhow, for a guitarist.

http://www.eventide.com/eclipse/eclipsounds.htm

http://ftp.missingtoast.com/edemo/h8kdemo.mp3

[YOUTUBE]IeroDKOR2BI[/YOUTUBE]

[Zachman]

 

yes. i think everyone understands that you can do that and its functionality is superior. but it's still expensive. but apparently the ability to be more functional is all that matters to you because when someone tries to bring up price you don't wanna hear it.

 

 

A GCX switcher is only about $400, and another $200 and up of course for a MIDI controller. Guys spend more than that on 1 or 2 pedals. SO, the idea that it's uber expensive is nothing more than RED HERRING NONSENSE.

 

Don't get me wrong, it CAN be expensive, but that depends on the individual, like everything else, and how much compromise they are willing to or NOT willing to contend with.

[RoboPimp]

this just in:

 

Zachman powders his wig

[Zachman]

 

this just in: Zachman powders his wig

 

 

As Wolfie in Amadeus said, "ssa ym ssik", and "tihs ym tae."

 

He had a powdered wig, didn't he?

[Zachman]

I was going to let it rest till this. How can you type crap like this and not understand why people think you're pretentious asshole (I was only half joking in my last post ).

I didn't create the Industry set Benchmark of what is BEST. I just happen to agree with it.

[seifukusha]

end to all myths: sounds are just sounds.

we make the sounds that inspire US
the audeince hears sounds that inpsire THEM

but the sounds are necessarily the same
digital/analog....meh

sounds are sounds. find some thing that inspires you

[Zachman]

end to all myths: sounds are just sounds. we make the sounds that inspire US the audeince hears sounds that inpsire THEM but the sounds are necessarily the same digital/analog....meh sounds are sounds. find some thing that inspires you

 

Yes... the sounds provided by preferred pedals analog or digital or rack processors analog or digital, can all benefit, in a guitar setup, by being run most efficiently, and yet, it's stunning how much opposition there is to doing that, or even discussing the possibility, especially when it's been show to be affordable, more efficient, and allow so much benefit for live performance. The phrase cut off the nose to spite the face, comes to mind.

 

It doesn't have to be like this, but the guys who think they can get their pedals to do what something like this can are smoking crack.

 

[TheHarakiriEnd]

How do you guys feel about the sde-1,000? I got a couple in some trades and what not and I have alot of fun with those. They're so warm.

[seifukusha]

Yes... the sounds provided by preferred pedals analog or digital or rack processors analog or digital, can all benefit, in a guitar setup, by being run most efficiently, and yet, it's stunning how much opposition there is to doing that, or even discussing the possibility, especially when it's been show to be affordable, more efficient, and allow so much benefit for live performance. The phrase cut off the nose to spite the face, comes to mind.

 

 

well, from my POV, it think people just want to have one easy rig and want it to work in all situations, but actually, some pedals dont work in certain rooms/amps/gtrs. I think its easier to buy more gear than to listen with your ears, which is difficult to get for some people. Theres alot of factors in making music. Developing ears etc also come to play.

 

I dont see as many people going into a store and playing/experimenting/listening. some of ebay could be responsible for that. ebay IS cool, but sometimes you arent able to listen and get a vibe from what you play, and thats very important. what gtrst wants to play a gtr he hasnt bonded with, eh?

[comfortablynumb]

 

Yes... the sounds provided by preferred pedals analog or digital or rack processors analog or digital, can all benefit, in a guitar setup, by being run most efficiently, and yet, it's stunning how much opposition there is to doing that, or even discussing the possibility, especially when it's been show to be affordable, more efficient, and allow so much benefit for live performance. The phrase cut off the nose to spite the face, comes to mind.

 

 

 

 

In all truth here, none of that even matters when the sounds are there. It just doesn't matter. Personally, going to a switching system wouldn't be at all easier for me or benefit me in any way other than maybe the "isolating a problem quickly" thing (which isn't a big deal for me. I can find my problems very quickly, 98% of the time before the next section of a song). It may work for some, but it's not the be all and end all by any means. For me, "being run most efficiently" is having my pedals chained up on the floor in front of me. I know a lot of others feel the same. It isn't about pro vs. bedroom players or Ferrari vs. Honda. It's just simply what works for you, me and everyone else.

[Zachman]

How do you guys feel about the sde-1,000? I got a couple in some trades and what not and I have alot of fun with those. They're so warm.

Very nice sounding units.

[Zachman]

In all truth here, none of that even matters when the sounds are there. It just doesn't matter.

Agreed, however; if someone has only eaten Soda Crackers, and wants to insist that they are the best or think that is all there is, and loves them- Then has a Ritz, steak, a cheeseburger, or whatever... that they've never had before, they may discover something that they like better than a plain old soda cracker.

P E R S P E C T I V E....

[Zachman]

well, from my POV, it think people just want to have one easy rig and want it to work in all situations, but actually, some pedals dont work in certain rooms/amps/gtrs. I think its easier to buy more gear than to listen with your ears, which is difficult to get for some people. Theres alot of factors in making music. Developing ears etc also come to play. I dont see as many people going into a store and playing/experimenting/listening. some of ebay could be responsible for that. ebay IS cool, but sometimes you arent able to listen and get a vibe from what you play, and thats very important. what gtrst wants to play a gtr he hasnt bonded with, eh?

 

 

The philosophy of subjectivity is a Pandora's box of endless possibilities, but Pedal boards are fine if you just want a few pedals and your switching needs are basic. But if you are truly serious about your tone, and you want many sound options available to you at any time (not to mention preset combinations and midi program change capability), a switching system is the way to go. No one said you have to turn on all the stuff at the same time! Besides, THERE IS NO CLEANER SIGNAL PATH FROM GUITAR TO AMP THAN WITH A SWITCHING SYSTEM, PERIOD. With a pedal board, even if every effect is bypassed, and you have "100% bypass" switches in all your effects (which is rare), you are still running through every pedal, and every cable and connection in the system. If something fails, good luck finding it. There is still a major capacitive buildup (which results in a severe loss of tone, mainly high end) because your signal must go through each cable and pedal. This is why signal buffers are so important. With a CAE switching system, troubleshooting is easy because you can bypass to get effects out of the signal path, and you can patch in between various places in the signal path, when you know what to look for. With a CAE custom switching system (can't vouch for other manufacturers) the majority of the signal path is hard wired internally, and with a loop based system bypassing the effect bypasses the cables connecting the effect as well! This is impossible with a traditional pedal board.