The use of Equipment, putting the BS myths to rest

[Zachman]

Remember we're talking about a guy that posted a Whitesnake clip as an example of great tone. Get it? I think not.

 

 

That was actually posted as an example of a MKIII Coliseum's lead channel, and was only one example within that same clip which included clean tones as well, and was only one, of many clips that I've posted. Get it? I think not

[Zachman]

rackgear doesn't necessarily need to be expensive. you can get some decent rackmounted stuff for as much as you can for a pedal, you just have to know what to look for specifically, I think.

 

 

+99999999999999999 AND one can rack mount their expensive pedals, and switch them via a switching system via MIDI and save the wear and tear on their boutique (if the case may be) pedals, automate their pedal moves and eliminate the need to tap dance, have their pedals sounding better than they would running them on the floor in series, and make trouble shooting an issue easier and not render their entire rig useless, until they could figure out what went wrong.

 

The idea that rack gear has to be limited to rack effects processors, is clearly something misunderstood, by those making the negative comments here.

[elctmist]

This is a funny thread. People should play through whatever they like. Ideas are more important than gear.

Nonetheless, I will note that most of my fave players use simple(ish) pedal setups. In fact, I thought that Robert Fripp sounded a lot better with a wah, a few fuzz boxes and the tape echoes rather than the monster rack he has now. Same with Adrian Belew and his EH boxes on "Remain in Light."

These things tend to go in phases though.

[Urinate Forever]

 

+99999999999999999 AND one can rack mount their expensive pedals, and switch them via a switching system via MIDI and save the wear and tear on their boutique (if the case may be) pedals, automate their pedal moves and eliminate the need to tap dance, have their pedals sounding better than they would running them on the floor in series, and make trouble shooting an issue easier and not render their entire rig useless, until they could figure out what went wrong. The idea that rack gear has to be limited to rack effects processors, is clearly something misunderstood, by those making the negative comments here.

 

 

I'm gonna try and find that Tech21 video I found here awhile ago about the midi switching system. It was pretty damn complex but when you figured it out, it was incredibly well thought out and easy to use.

 

edit: nvm found it, it was voodoo labs.

 

 

 

that's the first video, there's 5 parts. the next ones are in the related videos.

 

its not really using them as a rack right there, but it's a good example of what you could do.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

Big Rack = Big Cock ? Discuss

i though it was the other way around

[Zachman]

I don't understand what the point is here. I mean, I enjoyed reading it, it was funny and clever and was true from my perspective. I might have liked the first part better if I knew wtf a W/D/W or W/D or FOH was.

 

 

My bad, I'll go fix that in a second.

 

W/D=Wet/Dry (D=One cabinet is pure guitar signal to the amp), (W= a separate powered source with it's own speaker or speaker cabinet that runs the effected signal, ensuring the integrity of the original "Pure" guitar signal at all times)

 

W/D/W=Wet/Dry/Wet same Idea as above but the Wet side of the system runs in stereo, creating a stereo spread of effects (panning delays, choruses univibe etc...) along with the Dry cabinet which remains pure guitar signal. The signals are blended to produce an overall result, that until experienced is difficult to express how cool it really is.

 

FOH= Front of House (The PA system, that the audience hears)

[Zachman]

i though it was the other way around

 

Same for HUGE pedal boards, or pedal collections... in some cases yes, in some cases no

[Zachman]

I'm gonna try and find that Tech21 video I found here awhile ago about the midi switching system. It was pretty damn complex but when you figured it out, it was incredibly well thought out and easy to use. edit: nvm found it, it was voodoo labs. http://youtube.com/watch?v=FIRnr3xPLsE&feature=related that's the first video, there's 5 parts. the next ones are in the related videos. its not really using them as a rack right there, but it's a good example of what you could do.

Excellent!!! Thanks

[Urinate Forever]

Excellent!!! Thanks

I actually thought that it might have been you that posted it.

[Zachman]

This is a funny thread. People should play through whatever they like. Ideas are more important than gear. Nonetheless, I will note that most of my fave players use simple(ish) pedal setups. In fact, I thought that Robert Fripp sounded a lot better with a wah, a few fuzz boxes and the tape echoes rather than the monster rack he has now. Same with Adrian Belew and his EH boxes on "Remain in Light." These things tend to go in phases though.

Agree, people should use what they like. I figure knowledge is power, and understanding the tools and concepts that are available, is what anyone who uses equipment should understand.

Many of the naysayers, likely have never even seen a serious setup like Fripps or Belews in person, let alone experimented with the tools that they do, yet speak with such ignorant passion about how useless it must be.

Running things a certain way after exploring all of the possibilities seems a much more informed way of doing things, which is why Fripp and Belew can use old tape machines to do what they do as well as the high-end rack stuff that they do today... Because they understand the Why and How of how all the stuff works.

[Zachman]

I actually thought that it might have been you that posted it.

 

 

No, but I've used Tech21 gear and it is pretty good sounding and it's WAY light compared to a tube amp, that was a nice surprise too. When I 1st heard a tech 21 combo, a friends who plays in a Steely Dan tribute band, I was floored to find out that it was not a tube amp.

[Zachman]

Are you trying to convince us or yourself here Zach? You seem to spend alot of time on here convincing us that all the expensive {censored} you own is worth the money you payed for it. Oh and calling out people for making broad generalizations by you yourself making a broad generalization doesnt really work.

 

Again you miss the point... I am not talking about expensive gear (a relative thing). I am talking about a concept of signal routing via a switcher be it rack gear or pedals or a combination of BOTH (Expensive or inexpensive) is irrelevant here.

 

Try to follow the bouncing ball.

 

Whether or not someone else appreciates my gear, or thinks that it's cool or not, is irrelevant to me, because it does what I want it to do, however; I've yet to meet a naysayer that wasn't quickly shut down when hearing it in person. The only comments that they have been left with that are negative, and I agree with them are:

 

It is expensive

It is heavy

It can take up a lot of room

 

I remember hanging out with Allan Holdsworth once after a show he did in California, and some guy came up to him after the show and said, "Hi, um... that's like $20K worth of gear on the stage that you have there???" to which Allan responded well more like $25K, but ya." and the guy responded with, "and correct me if I'm wrong, but you used like 2 tones the whole night."

 

To which Allan responded, "what did you think of the tone?" The guy shut up and walked away, as I burst into hysterics.

[Zachman]

 

maybe the functionality of those systems is better but its still not cheaper. another 6 inch cable is easier to find the funds for.

 

 

You are correct they are not cheaper than a 6" cable, but the guys who bother with Evidence audio cables for huge amounts of boutique pedals, etc... surely would want to make the best use of their stuff. I am not addressing the guys who are 15 years old with the budget for a Boss GT3, for them having those units is a good thing as it's an affordable way to get sounds that they would otherwise not be able to afford.

[Zachman]

I think its important that everyone realilze what we're dealing with here.

hehehe, that is the perfect example of me, NOT needing to use tons of rack gear at a gig. notice in that pic 1 Intellifex.

The pics, which you are obviously aware of, of me using the rack, are on my website in my sig, if anyone is interested.

Your trolling is seeming to be a compensation for feelings of inadequacy, that you feel about yourself, your gear, and your station in life.

Perhaps I am wrong and you're acting like a troll, just to be involved in a community of some kind, as your attention seeking behavior has you isolated from real life interpersonal connections.

Dunno, either way you seem like a sad waste of DNA

[Urinate Forever]

No, but I've used Tech21 gear and it is pretty good sounding and it's WAY light compared to a tube amp, that was a nice surprise too. When I 1st heard a tech 21 combo, a friends who plays in a Steely Dan tribute band, I was floored to find out that it was not a tube amp.

 

 

well, that switcher was actually voodoo labs, haha.

 

but yeah, dude. I love tech21. I really love those combo amps. They're so sweet sounding. I really want to try some of their higher end distortion pedals though, mostly the SansAmp classic. Trying everything Kurt Cobain has used is something I can never grow out of, un(?)fortunately. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't just buy something because he used it. I'd have to actually like what it does and get more than one sweet sound out of it.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Zachman, if you like the gear you use and it sounds good what do you care what other people think?

+1

Actually, that same comment applies to everyone IMO. As long as you (and potentially, your clients, if you're in a touring band, or a studio / session cat) are happy with your gear choices, what others think of them shouldn't matter much.

Of course, there's no reason why you can't express your love for your gear, or feel free to extol the virtues of one type of setup over another or whatever... and if people agree, or some get good ideas they can apply to their setups, then great! But if they're happier with something else, that's also cool.

Mac vs PC, AMD vs Intel, Strat vs Les Paul, Pro Tools vs Nuendo, analog vs digital... they're all just tools, and each individual has to go with what works for them. I'm too busy making MUSIC to get too carried away by format warz.

[Urinate Forever]

Zachman, if you like the gear you use and it sounds good what do you care what other people think?

 

 

I think what he's mostly trying to get the point across about people's ignorance regarding most things. He's not really telling anyone they're wrong but mostly giving people a chance to be learned.

[Zachman]

Zachman, if you like the gear you use and it sounds good what do you care what other people think? +1 Actually, that same comment applies to everyone IMO. As long as you (and potentially, your clients, if you're in a touring band, or a studio / session cat) are happy with your gear choices, what others think of them shouldn't matter much. Of course, there's no reason why you can't express your love for your gear, or feel free to extol the virtues of one type of setup over another or whatever... and if people agree, or some get good ideas they can apply to their setups, then great! But if they're happier with something else, that's also cool. Mac vs PC, AMD vs Intel, Strat vs Les Paul, Pro Tools vs Nuendo, analog vs digital... they're all just tools, and each individual has to go with what works for them. I'm too busy making MUSIC to get too carried away by format warz.

 

Agree, wholeheartedly... see post below yours by Urinate Forever, it accurately portrays my intention.

[TheHarakiriEnd]

We don't take to kindly to em' fancy book learnins round these parts

[Phil O'Keefe]

We don't take to kindly to em' fancy book learnins round these parts

Ignorance.

Let me show you them.

[Zachman]

well, that switcher was actually voodoo labs, haha. but yeah, dude. I love tech21. I really love those combo amps. They're so sweet sounding. I really want to try some of their higher end distortion pedals though, mostly the SansAmp classic. Trying everything Kurt Cobain has used is something I can never grow out of, un(?)fortunately. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't just buy something because he used it. I'd have to actually like what it does and get more than one sweet sound out of it.

 

Voodoo Labs GCX switcher is a good product, (I've wired them up in quite a few racks for people), Sound Sculpture's Switchblade, Custom Audio Electronics, Skrydstrup R&D, and Axess Electronics are GREAT choices to look into, as well, for rack mounted switchers like:

 

Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, McLaren, Buggati are all nice choices when looking into exotic sports cars.

 

(ALL cool possible choices all with different features and options.)

 

There are pedal based switchers that are also available for guys who want to run their pedals on the floor, so they can tweak them etc... yet want to use MIDI to automate their multi-pedal switching to one button press.

 

[Zachman]

We don't take to kindly to em' fancy book learnins round these parts

 

Fortunately the "we" you are talking about, applies to a smaller population than those who come here, in the hopes of learning something and sharing their enthusiasm for their gear, and experiences with using various gear in various configurations.

 

[TheHarakiriEnd]

Fortunately the "we" you are talking about, applies to a smaller population than those who come here, in the hopes of learning something and sharing their enthusiasm for their gear, and experiences with using various gear in various configurations.

You never answered my original question.

[Zachman]

Not wanting to take your arguments into a new direction (well.. yes I actually do), but can you elaborate on this pedal switching rack device you are saying. I am one of the fools who has a great deal of pedals and I have been going about looking for efficient ways to set them up, but I never considered putting them on a rack. Plus I'm far to lazy to try and use the messed up search function here. So I figured I would take this opportunity to ask.

Sure: This is from Custom Audio Electronics Website: Bob Bradshaw's company. He is the inventor of switching systems, and a total genius when it comes to this stuff. There are other more affordable options out there, but as far as the info goes, this sums it up pretty well.

WARNING: there is a LOT of info here. Take small bites and chew well to avoid choking. hehehehe

If you have any more questions about other options, feel free to send me an E-mail, and I'll be happy to help

http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/frequently_asked_questions.htm

[Zachman]

 

Zachman you use your rig more for the studio right? How often do you do session work? You've got several amps Soldano, Mesa, Fuchs, Mojave Marshall. How many of them are set up for clean, and how many for dirt? How many have El-34 vs. 6L6's, Ef86's vs. 12ax7's? Just wondering how diverse your setup is. With your rack setup you've got the top of the line, but when it comes to pedals I don't see that much high end stuff. Btw not all studio musicians have huge rigs (brent mason comes to mind and hes done god knows how many).

 

 

Studio stuff lately is not as often as before, when I did it for a living, but once or twice a month, I'll do stuff. Agree my big setup is WAY over the top, and freely admit it isn't required to get nice results. I went the route I did, because I got tired of feeling like while the tone was good, something was not quite there, and that just bugged me... So, I decided to build a setup that I could use multiple amps, switch their channels if need be, and run them with my effects, with the element of controlling everything in real time added (No need to unplug one head, and plug in another for a session (saved time).

 

For Clean tones there are a few options, but mostly I use a 1965 Black Face Fender Super Reverb. Sometimes I'll use a Vox AC30, Mesa/Boogie MKIII Coliseum (I mostly use the crunch or gain channel on the Boogie though), a Mesa MKIV, Fender Bandmaster, Fender Twin, The Mojave Peacemaker, Marshall 6100 or the Fuchs ODS. In my rig, I have the amps setup so that I can select which one I want, and what channel it's on, via MIDI presets or via direct access switches on the floor controller, I can also manually select an amp, what channel I want, what effects are on, and blend via a couple of volume pedals, how wet I want it, and continuous control of certain features of the Eventide such as: mix level, room size for reverb, rate control for tremolo, univibe, chorus etc...

 

My amp switcher only allows for 4 heads to be utilized at a time, which I find is plenty. I usually use the Fender Super Reverb, Marshall 6100, Mojave Peacemaker, and either the Fuchs or the Boogie. the Marshall may get left out so I can have the Fuchs and the Boogie in the rig.

 

The Marshall, Mojave use EL34's, the Super and Fuchs use 6L6's, and the MKIII Coliseum I use a combination of 4 6L6's and 2 EL34's.

 

My pedals are not boutique, you are correct. Mostly old MXR stuff... I like the sonic characteristic that they provide, and running it through the switching system, I don't have the issues of tone suckage that running it with a traditional pedal board tends to have guys frustrated with.

 

If I know the guy that I'm doing a session for, I'll have an good idea of what I should take ex Les Paul, Strat, Tele, ES-335, Suhr Standard Strat, etc... And what effects if any, I need to contend with, along with what amp or compliment of amps I should bring.

 

You are correct that a lot of studio guys don't have big rigs, by comparison. The #1 A-List Studio Session guy, Michael Landau has a pretty darn elaborate and FANTASTIC sounding Bradshaw setup, along with TONS of others.

 

Here is an article addressing his setup:

 

Thursday, November 08, 2007

 

 

Gear talk...

 

Studio setup:

I mic the cabinet (see below) with a Shure SM57 through a Chandler Limited LTD-1 mic pre.

That signal is fed to the line in on the Custom Audio effects rack.

The rack has the following in it:

DBX 160A Compressor

Tri Stereo Chorus 618

Eventide H3000 D/SE Harmonizer

Lexicon MPX-1

Lexicon PCM 70

TC G-Force processor

Two Lexicon PCM 42's (left and right)

Custom Audio Super Tremolo

Pedals Before The Amp Are:

Vintage Tube Screamer TS-808

Roger Mayer Voodoo Vibe

Boss Volume Pedal FV500H

I use this setup only for recording because the line level processing is AFTER the DRY

cabinet (in other words, I insert the rack effects between the dry cabinet and

the recording console).

 

Live setup:

Guitar into Custom Audio RS10 switcher.

All the pedals are before the amp, they are:

Maxon DS-9 Sonic Distortion

Roger Mayer Voodoo 1

Arion Stereo Chorus (in mono)

Boss VB-2

Tycobrahe Octavia

Custom Audio Super Tremolo

Custom Audio Black Cat Vibe

Cry Baby Wah Wah

Boss Volume Pedal FV500H

I also use a Lexicon MPX-1 Processor in the effects loop of the amp for reverb and delay,

or I mike my cabinet and send it to the Lexicon MPX-1 which then goes to a pair of wet

cabinets (2 Custom Audio 2x10 cabs with Celestion Vintage 10 speakers)

 

Sometimes I'll use a small pedal board, its small and easy to cart around...

All the pedals are before the amp, they are:

Maxon SD-9 Sonic Distortion

Roger Mayer Voodoo-1

Real McCoy Wah Wah (red)

Arion stereo chorus (in mono, true bypass mod)

Roger Mayer Voodoo Vibe

Boss volume pedal FV500H

I also use a Lexicon MPX-1 Processor in the effects loop of the amp for reverb and delay,

or I mike my cabinet and send it to the Lexicon MPX-1 which then goes to a pair of wet

cabinets (2 Custom Audio 2x10 cabs with Celestion Vintage 10 speakers)

 

These are the amps I use live and in the studio:

Custom Audio OD100 "Classic"

Suhr 100 watt "Classic"

Dumble "Slide Winder"

Phil Jameson custom 30 watt

Suhr "Badger" 18 watt

'67 Plexy Marshall head

'64 Super Reverb with Dumble "Ultra Phonix" mod

'64 Deluxe Reverb with Dumble "Ultra Phonix" mod

2x12 or 4x12 Kerry Wright open back cabinet w/Celestion "Heritage Series" G12-65s

Bogner Straight 4x12 w/Celestion Vintage 30s

 

These are the guitars I mainly use live and in the studio:

Suhr Stratocaster with Suhr FL's neck and middle, Suhr SSV in bridge,

Suhr Silent Single Coil System

Suhr Telecaster with Suhr S-90 in neck, Suhr Classic Tele in bridge

'97 Fender Custom Shop Stratocaster with Suhr FL's neck and middle,

Suhr SSV in bridge, Suhr Silent Single Coil System

Tyler Stratocaster with DiMarzio 2.2 neck and middle, Suhr SSV in bridge

Tyler Stratocaster with EMG pickups

'69 Black Fender Stratocaster with Suhr FL's neck and middle, Suhr SSV in bridge,

Suhr Silent Single Coil System

'68 Sunburst Fender Stratocaster with DiMarizo 2.2 neck & middle, Suhr SSV in bridge

'63 Fiesta Red Fender Stratocaster

'63 Gibson SG

'68 Gold Top Les Paul (with PAF humbuckers)