Members dmk Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Har har dumbass. I mean how many of your stadium tours required the use of a big ass stack? oh you know, just the ones 15,000 upwards i should probably make it clear i meant one cab. i nearly always used a 4x12 on stage, not because i played massive venues, the opposite really. but because most the time the on stage monitoring was either no existent or just vocals. a 4x12 doesnt mean huge volumes either. my amps have volume controls and i do know how to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L6Sguy Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 good topic zack --- just gonna throw a few things out that i was thinking. HC Urban myth equivalents to, W/D/W, W/D, or stereo rack rigs:1. The FOH is mono, so it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tubetonez Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Throwing in my opinions here, thanks for starting the thread Zach. I'm an ex-rack user, currently using a pedal board. Back in the 80's/90's I had a rack rig based on the ADA MP1. This, along with a Peavey Classic 60/60 tube power amp, a half-rack Lexicon MPsomething multiFX, a half-rack boss GEQ and a rack tuner all in a 6 space rack. The whole rack was no larger than many amp heads, though probably heavier than some. I used a simple MIDI footswitch and a 2x12 cab wired in stereo. This was a very compact and versatile gigging setup, and extremely fast and easy to hook up. Leave the speaker wires & midi cable connected in the rack, pull them out to plug in to speakers & midi footswitch. Plug in guitar, and you're ready to go. I later sold most of my gear, and around 2000 I put together a similar ADA rack - much cheaper shopping Ebay lol. Then I got an old Marshall 50 watt head, and a couple of good overdrive & distortion pedals. I compared the tone to the ADA rig, while it is very good it could not get the same quality as the amp & pedals. I'd say the rack rig was probably 80% tonally. I never did any of the ADA mods, it could probably sound even better and of course you could use pedals with it as well. Ideally I'd have a big rack with everything, but I cannot justify the expense nor does it make sense for playing small to medium venues. The biggest expense in going with a full rack system incorporating pedals, is the switching system. This also increases the size of the rack. If you go with a pedalboard plus a rack, the setup complexity is increased. For my purposes, I'll either use a small all-in-one rack, or a pedal board and amp(s). Each has it's positives & negatives. For now I prefer my JTM45 mini Bluesbreaker 1x12 combo along with a few pedals. I do want a rack system eventually, when I can afford the controller for the pedals. It's not practical otherwise, I've considered it but I'd have to wire a custom snake between the pedalboard & rack to do what I want, and have both a pedal board and midi controller on stage. I'd prefer to get the Ground Control/GCX system with pedals in rack drawers, just the one controller and rack. I wouldn't want more than an 8 space rack. One downside about the pedal board is that knobs always seem to get bumped around no matter what, this adds to setup time even if you have positions marked. I've gotten some odd sounds during the first song quite a few times, after a rushed setup. In dark clubs it's difficult to see the knob positions. It distracts your performance to some degree when you have to bend over and adjust pedals, especially if you are singing & fronting. At any rate, all of these observations are from the perspective of a gigging "weekend warrior" musician who also holds down a day job. I'm carting everything I use, many times providing PA as well. I want everything as small, light, and easy to setup as possible. I want a good quality and consistent tone. I do admire Zachman's setup, and his gigs warrant the complexity of his rig. Which is designed for professional use, despite the apparent complexity it is easier to operate when playing than a typical pedalboard - once your presets are setup, it's just hitting one switch, no tap dancing. This is a huge benefit of a rack system - you can swap out, add or remove any amount of gear but using the same midi footswitch/controller you can still perform the same way. Not so with a pedal board, I for one never seem to get used to a setup when I have to rearrange everything to fit a new pedal. I always manage to hit the wrong pedal at the wrong time, and unless you use all Boss or other identically sized pedals then each pedal may have a different type switch, different heights & distances. With the Ground Control or similar unit, all the switches are consistent. For a person who needs to have a wide variety of tones & FX available instantly, live or in the studio, it's imperative IMO to have a logical control system. No offense to anyone, but with some of the huge pedal boards I've seen pictured here there is no way a person could effectively switch numerous pedals on & off to change radically different tones mid-song - at least not while performing effectively. I can't do it, most especially when I'm singing too. Using looper pedals can help, but it's still not near the simplicity of a midi controlled rack rig. You do need to program stuff in advance, but in performance you can set it up so that it's the same for every song. For example, IME 5 different tones or presets would be the most any one song needs, usually 2 or 3 will suffice. My preference is something like: 1. Rhythm 1 2. Rhythm 2 3. Lead 4. SpecialFX 1 5. SpecialFX 2 So I have only 5 switches to think about during any song, and usually only 2 or 3. Between numbers I have two "up" & "down" switches to scroll through the songs presets, a benefit of the LED display is naming the songs and using it as your song list. For my purposes, a majority of songs will be the same set of presets copied from another song, a few will have the same 1 - 3 presets with alternate 4 & 5 for various FX. It's not like you have to do a bunch of programming for each song, just copy the same 5 presets to the new song name and alter any one if needed. The Ground Control/GCX system also allows for individual loop on/off, should you decide on the spur of the moment to kick in your "Sonic Death" pedal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shaun126 Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Dude stuck in the 80's wants people to appreciate the fact that he has spent alot of time and money on his rack gear, which is better than everyone elses rig. Got it. Thanks for bringing all that to our attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cutsman Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 pretentious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Page? Here's Jimmy Page's Pete Cornish setup: It's not quite a rack, but I think it falls to Zachman's side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dangerous dan Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Big Rack = Big Cock ? Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheHarakiriEnd Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Zachman you use your rig more for the studio right? How often do you do session work? You've got several amps Soldano, Mesa, Fuchs, Mojave Marshall. How many of them are set up for clean, and how many for dirt? How many have El-34 vs. 6L6's, Ef86's vs. 12ax7's? Just wondering how diverse your setup is. With your rack setup you've got the top of the line, but when it comes to pedals I don't see that much high end stuff. Btw not all studio musicians have huge rigs (brent mason comes to mind and hes done god knows how many). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 If the eventide timefactor is any indication of the quality of rack gear, that is really the next step for me. Seems like MOST professional players use rack gear. You know, the kinds you see in HD playing to sold out audiences. I mean, why the {censored} else would a compressor cost $1700? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members therhodeo Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 (brent mason comes to mind and hes done god knows how many). Monstrous pedalboard with a TB looper. He's been on more albums sold than anyone Zachman could ever come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cutsman Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 I've noticed that the guys that "don't care", sure do talk a lot of shit, to people who do. I've noticed that guys who, "Don't care" sure do spend a lot of money on boutique pedals, modifying pedals, and old vintage noisy pedals, only to hook them up in the most inefficient way possible too. What's with that... cupcake??? They complain that the rack stuff is expensive, yet I've built racks that operate far more efficiently and quietly, with infinitely more flexibility, in terms of ease of use, for FAR less $$$ than some guys spend on pedals. And finally, because I want to help bring awareness to the FACT that rack gear can include pedals, mounted on a rack tray through a more efficient switching system, allowing for quieter, efficient use of their gear, less wear and tear on their pedals, and allow for automated presets- eliminating tap dancing, and helping to improve their tone, as it seems that not many guys realize the option is out there. Plus the troll's BS is just ignorant, and I want to bring awareness of a better way, for gear users and tone chasers, to use the gear that they spend their money on. Just an observation, but it seems to me, that if this seems like preaching, some of you are too damn sensitive, and closed minded. maybe i'm just retarded or don't understand or both...but if you wanted to integrate pedals into a rack system, wouldn't you have to or at least have the option to mod those pedals or get boutique or what have you for whatever sound you want? maybe the functionality of those systems is better but its still not cheaper. another 6 inch cable is easier to find the funds for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dolf Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 A+ thread. Would read again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Agreed Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Your comments on pedals are off-base in the same way that you call the Nazi purist's comments on racks off-base. Here's all you need to say: Your preferred tone is the end in itself. Everything else is a means to that end. It is a mistake to treat a means as an end. Play whatever you're inspired to play, through whatever you want. Don't worry about what other people will think - are you listening through their ears? Then don't think with their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members adamthemute Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 In this country, first you get the money, then you get the power, THEN you get the woman (and rack gear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 In this country, first you get the money, then you get the power, THEN you get the woman (and rack gear).In Soviet Russia, rack gear plays YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 ...and why are you preaching at us again? Did Hendrix use a rack? Page? Rack is Wack. Not preaching at you, rather clarifying some myths that are perpetuated by some. Hendrix was an effects pioneer in his day, and if he were around today, I bet he would utilize the modern tools of today such as rack switching and MIDI, because of the benefits that running (YES, even pedals) in a rack, provide, over running a bunch of pedals in series. If you are going for that bare bones, stuck in the 60's/70's, "I like tap dancing, and noisy, capacitive loading", tone you're right- rack gear may not be for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members adamthemute Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 If I had more dollars I'd look into rack gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Hendrix might well use rack gear if he were alive today but he probably wouldn't spend much time posting about it... I'm happy being a non-rack man. Having a nice big switching system and god knows what else will not make me a better player in my opinion. I might sound a little better but it ain't going to improve my technique. There's also the whole penis extension element of the rack that must be considered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Your comments on pedals are off-base in the same way that you call the Nazi purist's comments on racks off-base.Here's all you need to say:Your preferred tone is the end in itself. Everything else is a means to that end. It is a mistake to treat a means as an end. Play whatever you're inspired to play, through whatever you want. Don't worry about what other people will think - are you listening through their ears? Then don't think with their minds. The problem with that is that there are so many guys who don't know what they're looking for, and are unaware of exactly what it is that is possible-hence the discussion on other means of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slc_dan Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 If you are going for that bare bones, stuck in the 60's/70's, "I like tap dancing, and noisy, capacitive loading", tone you're right- rack gear may not be for you. he finally gets it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urinate Forever Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 I don't understand what the point is here. I mean, I enjoyed reading it, it was funny and clever and was true from my perspective. I might have liked the first part better if I knew wtf a W/D/W or W/D or FOH was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members therhodeo Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 he finally gets it!! Remember we're talking about a guy that posted a Whitesnake clip as an example of great tone. Get it? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 There's also the whole penis extension element of the rack that must be considered I've seen guys here, with HUGE collections of pedals that are, what appear to me, to be the EXACT thing that you are asserting, regarding rack gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 In this country, first you get the money, then you get the power, THEN you get the woman (and rack gear). hehehehe The point I'd like to make is that rack setups don't have to be elaborate, or expensive, and that guys here have LARGE amounts of money invested in their pedals, as much if not more than lots of "Rack" setups, and IF they are willing to spend the money on their preferred pedal tones, I wonder why wouldn't they want to consider making the most use and getting the best performance out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urinate Forever Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 If I had more dollars I'd look into rack gear... rackgear doesn't necessarily need to be expensive. you can get some decent rackmounted stuff for as much as you can for a pedal, you just have to know what to look for specifically, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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