Members Zachman Posted December 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 Hi fi rack gear is really antithetical to guitar, in my view. Electric guitar is by nature low fi, distorted, narrow band. Zack's approach to gear seems rather sterile, IMO. Some of the greatest tones on record used low-tech, tone sucking gear. Maybe those old classic artists are using expensive rack stuff now, but they didn't when they were making history. That is true, old tech stuff by today's standards was utilized by guys back in the day, however; it was the top of the line at the time, which is why they often use different gear today (so they don't have to, deal with the obnoxious noise issues and tone suckage, and limitations that can result from using old technology). The were not using True bypass pedals, and I don't recall those classic artists using the (in some cases) vast number of pedals on pedal boards, as is the fad of today's players. (Not guys always trying to get a classic old school result) and the thread was directed to people that actually do use lots of effects. If you think the sound examples of my tone seem sterile, fair enough. The approach isn't for everyone. Though I thought that was a given, since someone using a Fuzz, Delay and a Wah would hardly be the people I was addressing in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheHarakiriEnd Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 Happy to see this is still going strong. Yeah me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sdresdre Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 in the blue corner *ZACHMAN* ... BOOOO BOOOO BOOO in the red corner....... *EVVVVVERRRYYYYONNNNE ELSE* WOOOO HOOOO YEAHHHHHHH:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 11. Rack mounted equipment is not limited to digital rack processors anymore a. Pedals can be rack mounted, to be used in a MIDI switching system which will eliminate tap dancing b. Pedals can be rack mounted, and routed through a switching system, eliminating the need to consider true bypass mods on several potential pedals c. Several pedals can be used in conjunction with rack processors, and conveniently utilized via MIDI presets d. Rack mounting your pedals can be useful toward preserving the condition of pedals (Both from being stomped on/off again and again, having drinks being spilled on them, or having them mysteriously disappear at the hands of a would be thief. 12. A rack switching system doesn't have to be: large, or expensive It is a given the solutions described are not a suggestion of a right or wrong way to run gear, rather are meant as an optional solution where appropriate, for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 damnanyone else know Waddy Watchel's rig from 1981? He was primarily using an old sunburst Les Paul, although I've seen him in pics and in person with a Strat in his hands too. As far as amps, IIRC, he was using Fenders and Marshalls. As for effects... I have no idea. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SG dan Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 I dont' understand... are you telling everybody to go buy rack gear, just saying that its good, or are you just showing off your gear? I'm sure that all your rack gear sounds fantastic, but you can hardly convince me that rack gear doesn't have to be expensive when yours has stuff like TC, eventide, lexicon, high end stuff. I'm sure you could make a rack settup with the cheapest of the cheap and not have it break the bank but then its a whole other argument. also, for a fella with 4-8 pedals, a shwitching system may be a waste when you can just make a TB loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uma Floresta Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 That is true, old tech stuff by today's standards was utilized by guys back in the day, however; it was the top of the line at the time, which is why they often use different gear today (so they don't have to, deal with the obnoxious noise issues and tone suckage, and limitations that can result from using old technology). The were not using True bypass pedals, and I don't recall those classic artists using the (in some cases) vast number of pedals on pedal boards, as is the fad of today's players. (Not guys always trying to get a classic old school result) and the thread was directed to people that actually do use lots of effects. If you think the sound examples of my tone seem sterile, fair enough. The approach isn't for everyone. Though I thought that was a given, since someone using a Fuzz, Delay and a Wah would hardly be the people I was addressing in the first place. The most advanced amp technology right is now digital modeling - that doesn't mean it sounds better, just that it's more complex. Complex does not equal good sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members therhodeo Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 I dont' understand... are you telling everybody to go buy rack gear, just saying that its good, or are you just showing off your gear?I'm sure that all your rack gear sounds fantastic, but you can hardly convince me that rack gear doesn't have to be expensive when yours has stuff like TC, eventide, lexicon, high end stuff. I'm sure you could make a rack settup with the cheapest of the cheap and not have it break the bank but then its a whole other argument.also, for a fella with 4-8 pedals, a shwitching system may be a waste when you can just make a TB loop. He's just educating all of us poor ignorant backwards hobbyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members therhodeo Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 The most advanced amp technology right is now digital modeling - that doesn't mean it sounds better, just that it's more complex. Complex does not equal good sounding. Agreed. I'm not hearing where any of these thousands he's spent on gear have added up to some amazing tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikesr1963 Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 A couple of quotes from Zachman's original post sum it up for me: If the player can tell the difference and digs it, that is what matters.... Gear doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeverist Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 Hi fi rack gear is really antithetical to guitar, in my view. Electric guitar is by nature low fi, distorted, narrow band. Zack's approach to gear seems rather sterile, IMO. Some of the greatest tones on record used low-tech, tone sucking gear. Maybe those old classic artists are using expensive rack stuff now, but they didn't when they were making history.Actually there are still lots of guys who haven't crossed over to the "rack revolution". These guys, according to Zach, are in the "Nazi Purist" category.[YOUTUBE]YToykzO7_bo[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]Vuadh1o0yC8[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]FL8aeeSTthQ[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]f6gDeGdQ3rM[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]4O_YMLDvvnw[/YOUTUBE]And these guys are in the "Overloaded Capacitance" category[YOUTUBE]m_mMzOQpe0I[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]3B7naySHo7E[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]JovRNx40c6E[/YOUTUBE]Only these guys have the right approach to gear, and thats why they sound so much better.[YOUTUBE]m8Ikf0XyivA[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]dPKuz1vAHrE[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]w3l7UZc2bJI[/YOUTUBE]How about a direct comparison - one rack guy, one traditional tone guy, same song.Rack guy:[YOUTUBE]HJmamH614FE[/YOUTUBE]Non-rack guy:[YOUTUBE]zAG-kX_IlUw[/YOUTUBE]But just to get it straight, so we're OK with Zachman. The first group are "Nazi Purists". The second group are "going for that bare bones, stuck in the 60's/70's, "I like tap dancing, and noisy, capacitive loading" tone. The third group has the right approach. And finally if you could put SRV and Luke on the same stage, Luke's tone would sound much better. All things Zach has said in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urinate Forever Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 Yeah because the guy who uses a DS-1 obviously knows more about rack gear than the guy who's been doing it for longer than Courtney Love's sucked dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 Actually there are still lots of guys who haven't crossed over to the "rack revolution". These guys, according to Zach, are in the "Nazi Purist" category. No... a Nazi purist is a guy who insists that unless you only play: guitar straight to an amp (preferably-according to their mantra an original Marshall Plexi, Original Tweed Fender, or in some cases boutique 5 watt PTP amps etc... )that you are an idiot and your tone must there fore suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 also, for a fella with 4-8 pedals, a shwitching system may be a waste when you can just make a TB loop. A TB loop may be a fantastic solution for the guy w/ 4-8 pedals, and is a switching system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sdresdre Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 i think what we (pedal user's)are saying is that your rack gear DOES NOT sound better than our stomp pedals. many..... incl me feel the complete opposite(to put it lightly). you saying rack gear simply sounds better is COMPLETE AND UTTER BULL{censored}. a ignorant and closed minded OPINION it's the same as telling a brilliant painter that one brush is better than the other. its makes absolutely no {censored}ing sense dood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikesr1963 Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 Yeah because the guy who uses a DS-1 obviously knows more about rack gear than the guy who's been doing it for longer than Courtney Love's sucked dick. I have lots of gear, and have played lots and lots of gear, but just answer the freaking question at hand from what he said I really don't give a {censored} how long he's been doing. He's probably been doing it so long that he doesn't realize what you can do with gear available to the masses today. Do you even research this {censored} or are you just a hanger on looking for a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 I have lots of gear, and have played lots and lots of gear, but just answer the freaking question at hand from what he said I really don't give a {censored} how long he's been doing. He's probably been doing it so long that he doesn't realize what you can do with gear available to the masses today. Do you even research this {censored} or are you just a hanger on looking for a friend. If you bothered to read, you'd see that my philosophy advocates using whatever works best for the job at hand. It is a given the solutions described are not a suggestion of a right or wrong way to run gear, rather are meant as an optional solution where appropriate, for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 it's the same as telling a brilliant painter that one brush is better than the other. its makes absolutely no {censored}ing sense dood. Enjoy, your gear. It's more like two painters talking and one saying to the other I like this brush better because__________, and having the guy decide for himself if he agrees. If he doesn't, it doesn't mean that that either is right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikesr1963 Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 Address the issue at hand. According to the thread starter the man in this video should sound like {censored} and come no where near his tone or sound. But he does with a cheap knock off strat, an RP-200 and a solid state amp. [YOUTUBE]D9v5e1TTwts[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 A couple of quotes from Zachman's original post sum it up for me: Zachman is passionate about his gear, and this post is another way to share his joy. That's how I read it, plain and simple. We all have our gear passions, which is why we are typing away on a computer for HCFX instead of playing music. BTW, have I mentioned how much I love old Electro-Harmonix pedals? I love the steel boxes, the big knobs, the sliders, the cheap switches, the tacky colors, and the retro fonts. I love the way they sound, all thick and sometimes noisy. Could I get more reliable sounds from other manufacturers? Of course, but EHX inspires me to want to play and create, and that's all that really matters where I'm concerned. I'm not too concerned with the rest. Cool, there are people that can read and comprehend. You got it 100%. I LOVE my EHX LPB2 for my application and my old MXR pedals, and love them more using them in the loop switching system as it eliminates me having to contend with the negatives associated with running them in series and having them degrade my original signal when not in use, like they did before I ran them this way. AND... I really like the benefit of not having to tap dance to turn them all off and on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikesr1963 Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 I don't know who this is but listening to what he's trying to do I'd say Jimi and Stevie are rolling over in there graves because it's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 It is a given the solutions described are not a suggestion of a right or wrong way to run gear, rather are meant as an optional solution where appropriate, for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikesr1963 Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 Address the issue at hand. According to the thread starter the man in this video should sound like {censored} and come no where near his tone or sound. But he does with a cheap knock off strat, an RP-200 and a solid state amp. [YOUTUBE]D9v5e1TTwts[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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