Members Bobo Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I have a Boss Metal Core that is ok, but isn't doing the job I want (and I believe it has an inherent problem anyway). I'm going to trade it in and try others. What I want to know is a little about some of the tube pedals. Most think that the best distortion and tone will come from a tube amp....does this apply to pedals as well? Just a lot of gain with crappy tone is not what I'm after. Massive gain and good tone would be nice, if that can be had from a $100-200 pedal. Maybe something like the Damage Control Solid Metal . Also, how long to tubes typically last? Or is their lifespan random? I have an old Peavey Classic Chorus 212 I'll play through. Love it's clean tone and it gets loud, just won't get dirty enough. I think my Kramer Proaxe and my new Ibanez RGT6EXFX with active EMG's are just not shining like they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Instrospection Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Bobo, Tubes in tube pedals are somewhat of a gimmick. They're usually 12AX7 preamp tubes, and they can often sound very good in BK Butler/ Chandler pedals and Electro Harmonix pedals and others. But they're still misleading, because they're not power tube distortion, which is where you get your true "tube tone" from. While hybrid amps (Valvestate, etc) have come a LONG way (I have a Fender Performer 1000, Fender's first attempt at the hybrid amp, which evolved into the RocPro), it's not true tube unless it's power tube saturation. I'm still waiting for a pedal to get this right, because it's not all the way there until then. The Behringer VT911 is a very good pedal, and swap out the 12AX7 for a 12AT7, and you've got a very affordable, very rude (ie: think Neil Young Crazy Horse tone) pedal. Tubes last for varying times. Preamp tubes (ie: tubes in tube pedals) last a very long time, much longer than power tubes. Power tubes' (the bigger ones) lifespan also depends on how hot you bias your tubes--meaning that you can get a hotter, more saturated sound--but also at the expense of tube longevity. You can run the heck out of them for better sound, but that also means that the tube life is decreased, as well. Hope this helps a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobo Posted March 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks Intro. Got a question on the Behringer VT911. I read some reviews talking about a "Bitmo mod". What is that? Some other term for changing the tube to the AT7 like you said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Instrospection Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 No idea on the Bitmo mod, unfortunately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leftystratman Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 my guess is, what you need is a Tonebone. Hot British might be a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sabriel9v Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I've having the same problem now. I just got out of practice and was using a Metal Core there. I don't like the differences in volume between my tube tone and distortion tone. If you're like me and prefer a natural tube overdriven tone, I'd seek out a clean and transparent boost or overdrive. Something like an MXR Micro Amp or good eq. I'm even thinking about getting two eqs and putting them back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Agreed Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Introspection, no disrespect intended, but I have to disagree. Power tube distortion is not the only desirable kind. Many (most? all?) modern, high gain amplifiers achieve their distortion in the preamp section and then use a hefty, relatively clean power section (like a bunch of 6L6s) to bring that up to level. It's doubly incorrect to then limit the "good" tube pedals to such a strange selection. Any pedal can incorperate tubes successfully provided it has enough voltage (or, more aptly, current) in the power supply to be stepped up to a high voltage for the tubes. Damage Control's two preamp-only pedals (Solid Metal, Liquid Blues) are biased at 250V, which is sufficient to get genuine tube distortion and compression rather than mere starved-plate diode-like clipping. Please don't pass on such opinionated information as stark fact, especially since the OP specifically asked for "massive gain and good tone." There are very few amplifiers with massive gain which use solely power tubes for distortion. The grittier character of power tube distortion does not lend itself well to the layering required to get full-on saturation. That comes from cascading preamp tubes and then amplifying their output to program level. OP, the Damage Control Solid Metal would easily meet your requirements. It has excellent, genuine high-gain tone and powerful tone-shaping options. It sounds great with a SS amp or a tube amp, but in my experience it sounds best placed in front of a powerful tube amp configured for a relatively clean sound (maybe just at the edge of breakup). It benefits from the tube amp's power tube compression and distortion if you have an amp that does so (say, an amp loaded with EL34s), but sounds great with a hefty, cleaner power section as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobo Posted March 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks for the opinions guys. I'd like to add one more thing. I'd like to get more flexibility than the Boss ML-2 has. I play mostly metal, but I don't always blare out high gain silliness I see a lot of people series different pedals. I wasn't sure if people were using pedals at the same time, or just switching from one to the other for a different tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheAtomicJeff Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Bobo,Tubes in tube pedals are somewhat of a gimmick. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Bobo, Tubes in tube pedals are somewhat of a gimmick. They're usually 12AX7 preamp tubes, and they can often sound very good in BK Butler/ Chandler pedals and Electro Harmonix pedals and others. But they're still misleading, because they're not power tube distortion, which is where you get your true "tube tone" from. While hybrid amps (Valvestate, etc) have come a LONG way (I have a Fender Performer 1000, Fender's first attempt at the hybrid amp, which evolved into the RocPro), it's not true tube unless it's power tube saturation. I'm still waiting for a pedal to get this right, because it's not all the way there until then. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NetStar Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Without getting in the way of the comment passed for Agreed to Intro;I too have a Performer 1000 with a 12AX7 valve in it. Whilst it is a very good drive sound compared to strictly solid state amps I have used, no, it still doesn't have the overall character of a valve amp. It is, and I sure Intro will agree, by all intents and purposes, however, a strong amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Tubes in tube pedals are somewhat of a gimmick. PureTube's designs are an exception, as well as the EHX Blackfinger. If you get a chance, play through a Wiggler, a Tube Zipper, or a Hot Tubes, and report back if you still think the tubes were a gimmick. I'm not a tone-snob, but even I can hear and feel a world of difference with those boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baba Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Ever heard of Blackstar pedals ? Massive gain comparable to ENGL/DIESEL distortion (preamp of course), and way more dynamic than Boss pedals. Works best on a clean tube amp. Comparable to Tonebone maybe, but a more aggressive, modern sound IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobo Posted March 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I just want to clarify that I'm not expecting great tube sound from a pedal. I really just wondered if there was something that would offer closer to a tube sound. And I know there's a lot of variables involved and different ears too. Thanks for the ideas that I can check out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members archofmusic Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Nothing quite beats the tone of a tube driven amplifier. I'm running a NYC Big Muff into a Marshall 1959SLP. I tried the Muff out with some smaller practice amps before purchasing the SLP. It really reacts well with high wattage tube driven amps. But lately I've been feeling the Muff needs a little more. I think one day I'll pick up the Black Finger Pre-Amp and run it before the Muff to boost the signal into the Muff. I have an odd feeling it's going to tear the Muff a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B. Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I think the EHX English Muff'n (which uses tubes) sounds very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members parkerguy Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 i used a Mesa V-Twin pedal for a long time and was very happy with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niceguy Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I've found that any good distortion/fuzz running into a good tube amp will result in a very tasty tone. So, what I'm saying is that even though a pedal doesn't have a tube in it (such as a Big Muff), if you run it into a good tube amp, you'll get great tone. In fact, I'm starting to prefer that kind of setup to the onboard distortion of tube amps, which can be limiting. I have a DSL100, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hanglow Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I second the Blackstar pedals http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/products/ht/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grayeyes777 Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 the behringer vt999 is actually decent too. jt pedals valveboy sounds great as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Instrospection Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Introspection, no disrespect intended, but I have to disagree.Power tube distortion is not the only desirable kind. Many (most? all?) modern, high gain amplifiers achieve their distortion in the preamp section and then use a hefty, relatively clean power section (like a bunch of 6L6s) to bring that up to level. It's doubly incorrect to then limit the "good" tube pedals to such a strange selection. Any pedal can incorperate tubes successfully provided it has enough voltage (or, more aptly, current) in the power supply to be stepped up to a high voltage for the tubes. Damage Control's two preamp-only pedals (Solid Metal, Liquid Blues) are biased at 250V, which is sufficient to get genuine tube distortion and compression rather than mere starved-plate diode-like clipping.Please don't pass on such opinionated information as stark fact, especially since the OP specifically asked for "massive gain and good tone." There are very few amplifiers with massive gain which use solely power tubes for distortion. The grittier character of power tube distortion does not lend itself well to the layering required to get full-on saturation. That comes from cascading preamp tubes and then amplifying their output to program level.OP, the Damage Control Solid Metal would easily meet your requirements. It has excellent, genuine high-gain tone and powerful tone-shaping options. It sounds great with a SS amp or a tube amp, but in my experience it sounds best placed in front of a powerful tube amp configured for a relatively clean sound (maybe just at the edge of breakup). It benefits from the tube amp's power tube compression and distortion if you have an amp that does so (say, an amp loaded with EL34s), but sounds great with a hefty, cleaner power section as well. True that power tube distortion is not the only distortion that matters, but you also overlooked one big factor: speaker distortion When people slam preamps and power tubes hoping to get that authentic warm sound, people forget that you need some speaker distortion in there, as well. I should state that i'm not a big fan of preamp distortion. In my master volume old Fender 140, I usually turn the master up halfway and then control the volume from the preamp section. I had an old Tube Works pedal a long time ago, and I still preferred my transistor distortion/ overdrive pedals, simply because I find preamp distortion too mushy--great for fuzz, not as great when you want something sharper with great pick response. That's the funny thing---I do prefer transistors for the preamp overdrive, and then tubes for the power section, because if you reverse the opposite scenario, you have the hybrids with a 12AX7 claiming "vaccuum tube distortion"--which is technically correct--but a false advertisement. Most of the new guys looking for a tube amp will buy whatever has a tube in it and then not be that thrilled with the experience. I'm just pointing out that an amp is not a TRUE tube amp until you have a tube preamp AND a power section to it. Just in the same way, where we're always debating about what's "true bypass" and how some companies don't have it (instead having mechanical bypass--ie: disconnect the power and the pedal still has sound coming through). Then people end up with tone sucking pedals and say, "true bypass sounds like crap!". I mean, it's bad enough where I read tons of reviews from people saying, "the Tube Screamer doesn't make me sound like I have tubes in my solid state amp!". No one clarified to these guys that it's a transistor based device that's meant to overdrive the volumes of preamp tubes--it only works if you already have a tube amp. Then they sell their TS808 and wonder what all the big fuss was. I just want people to know the difference between the good tube amps and the not so good "tube amps", because if they equate one 12AX7 with the tube experience, then I don't blame them if they run around and go, "well, tube amps aren't that great....". There's a reason why a Vox AC30 or a Fender Twin or other amps from the same camp are unbeatable, tone-wise....you just don't get the real deal without spending the $$$ on the real deal. The preferable real deal is overdriving the preamp with a pre-boost (Tube Screamers, etc) at a high volume, low gain, then getting power tube saturation from the amp being driven loudly, with speaker distortion. One 12AX7 does not do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B. Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I agree about speaker distortion. It's the same issue with attenuators. People run at whipser volumes and then wonder why it doesn't sound the same as when the volume is cranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 You have to match the pedal with your tube amp. Some pedal + amp combinations may sound terrible to you and others sound much better. For example, my buddy's Rat and Big Muff pedals sounded muddy through his Chinese Vox AC-30, and much better to our ears through his silverface Fender Twin. The presence of a tube does not grant an exception from this rule for any pedal: Gotta match the pedal w/ the amp, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Instrospection Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 Also, not even every tube amp sounds great, either. The assumption is that every tube amp is great--some never were and just because they're old doesn't necessarily mean that they're "vintage".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sabriel9v Posted March 21, 2008 Members Share Posted March 21, 2008 I think one day I'll pick up the Black Finger Pre-Amp and run it before the Muff to boost the signal into the Muff. Wait, how would that work? Would the Black Finger stay active at all times or would you turn it on when you used your fuzz or distortion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.