Is there a huge difference between 15db and 18 db?

[marshallman2010]

I was looking up EQ's and compared to the Dano Fish and Chips, an MXR 6 band EQ has a boost of 18 dbs compared to 15 dbs of the F&C. Huge difference or no?

[cdawzrd]

For an EQ in a pedal? Doubt it, but not sure

Technically, a 3 dB increase is about a factor of 2 increase in the relative power output.

[zachary vex]

For guitar eqs those figures are probably approximate anyway.

[SonicVI]

It's three louder innit?

[cdawzrd]

 

It's three louder innit?

 

 

technically log(3) but yep

[SonicVI]

technically log(3) but yep

 

I know. I was kidding. It was supposed to be what Nigel Tufnel would say

[archofmusic]

I was bored and decided to look this up. db's work logarithmically so it's not like feet and inches.

 

Lets say you're 10 feet from a speaker. When you double the distance, the decibels drop by 6. So lets say at 10ft its 100db. At 20ft its 94 db. When you double the distance from 20, it drops another 6 db. So at 40 ft its 88db.

 

3db is equated to doubling the sources. So (2) 12" speakers cranked at the same volume is only 3db louder than (1) 12" at the same volume level. (4) 12's are only 3db louder than (2) 12's and so on. So 3db is not necessarily a small number.

 

I've heard the Demeter Tremulator has a 1db volume increase. Is it a lot? It's enough to mention, and if it's enough to mention you probably can notice it.

[jake.lind]

So 3db is not necessarily a small number. I've heard the Demeter Tremulator has a 1db volume increase. Is it a lot? It's enough to mention, and if it's enough to mention you probably can notice it.

 

3dB is a BARELY recognizable increase in sound. Like enough to notice, but not enough to make a difference.

 

1dB is so incredibly small. I bet it still sounds like the tremulator is cutting volume overall, though. The average volume with it on is going to be less than the average volume with it off, 1dB be damned.

 

As for the Fish and Chips and MXR. Get the Fish and chips. Why? Because the FnC has more level sliders, cooler casing, and MORE available volume. Yes, even with the 15dB vs 18dB with the MXR. Why? Because the FnC has a Level slider that provides an additional +- 15 dB. Unlike how dB act over distances and with speaker additions, decibel gain into decibel gain is simply addition.

 

This means the FnC offers a whopping 30dB boost or 30dB cut on any frequency in its bands. Kind of makes the 18dB look kind of wimpy, huh? As the dB difference in between them is 12, which is literally a level of magnitude higher power, which means the FnC can literally sound TWICE AS LOUD OR SOFT(and change, but not a whole lot) than the MXR which already is 18dB louder or softer than your original guitar signal.

 

Please get the Fish and Chips. It's a much, much better deal.

[johanwastaken]

If I recall correctly, 3db is also the difference between a 1x12 amp and 2x12 amp (if the circuit is identical). If you've ever tried that side-by-side, then you know 3db.

[justintee]

the more significant difference is the +18db is noisier, in my experience.. although with an eq you shouldn't be adjusting to those extremes anyways, conventionally, imho.

[spentron]

Actually the whole decibel scale is supposed to be calibrated so that 1 dB is the minimum the average person can detect. The actual amount depends on the person and the situation.

 

As to the EQ, though, 18 dB mostly means you can screw up the sound more.

[GCDEF]

dB in this case isn't referring to sound pressure level, so the discussion, while fascinating, is irrelevant.

[SonicVI]

 

dB in this case isn't referring to sound pressure level, so the discussion, while fascinating, is irrelevant.

 

 

wrong!

 

it isn't fascinating.

[Servant]

dB in this case isn't referring to sound pressure level, so the discussion, while fascinating, is irrelevant.

 

 

Absolutely correct. This is a gain discussion.

[Collapse]

No.

 

 

3dB is a BARELY recognizable increase in sound. Like enough to notice, but not enough to make a difference.

 

 

That's actually how 1dB is defined.

[archofmusic]

See attached PDF...

 

[ATTACH]259904[/ATTACH]

[GCDEF]

 

wrong! it isn't fascinating.

 

 

I was being generous.

[mrweems]

Fact.

 

To the human ear the most noticable difference in sonic sound is a 4 DB increase.

 

So the answer is almost yes. There is a difference between a 15 / 18 db difference

[spentron]

wrong! it isn't fascinating.

 

It isn't unless you're Spock but it's important stuff. There's been discussion of this the last few days and this thread has the right title ... as to the EQ question, the answer is more like 18 is 20% more than 15 but also an extreme sound, do you use those?

 

The idea behind the decibel scale is to make a large relativistic range more manageable, but it confuses also. The deal with sound is changes multiply. If you double the power of your amp, and then want that increase again, you double it again. It's pretty obvious actually, that if you go from 1 watt to 10, or 10 to 100, that's substantial, but the difference from 101 to 110 is small.

 

The overall range the ear can deal with is huge, a power range of 10 trillion. If you double the power, it's quite noticable, but you can double or halve the power 42 times before exceeding the ear's range.

 

The speaker thing ... that acoustics pdf talks about power, not pressure, and is mainly pointing out that two sources of 60 dB doesn't make 120. If you have a speaker pointing into a big room but away from you at 60 dB, and then add another pointed and spaced slightly different at 60 dB, the randomistic sound coming back at you from the room will increase about 3 dB. On the other hand, a speaker is not directional in the bass, so you will hear a lot of bass coming directly from the speakers and this is not randomized. The sound pressure, not what acousticians refer to as "energy", doubles and the difference is about 6 dB. Inphase sound can boost up to 3 dB but outphase sound can cancel completely.

[Chezdon]

3dB is a BARELY recognizable increase in sound. Like enough to notice, but not enough to make a difference. 1dB is so incredibly small. I bet it still sounds like the tremulator is cutting volume overall, though. The average volume with it on is going to be less than the average volume with it off, 1dB be damned. As for the Fish and Chips and MXR. Get the Fish and chips. Why? Because the FnC has more level sliders, cooler casing, and MORE available volume. Yes, even with the 15dB vs 18dB with the MXR. Why? Because the FnC has a Level slider that provides an additional +- 15 dB. Unlike how dB act over distances and with speaker additions, decibel gain into decibel gain is simply addition. This means the FnC offers a whopping 30dB boost or 30dB cut on any frequency in its bands. Kind of makes the 18dB look kind of wimpy, huh? As the dB difference in between them is 12, which is literally a level of magnitude higher power, which means the FnC can literally sound TWICE AS LOUD OR SOFT(and change, but not a whole lot) than the MXR which already is 18dB louder or softer than your original guitar signal. Please get the Fish and Chips. It's a much, much better deal.

 

Surely if it's noticeable it's made a difference? :poke: