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Need a high gain, A Perfect Circle-Like Tone


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I've recently become really interested in Billy Howerdel of A Perfect Circles playing and tone. I'm trying to find a way to get in the ballpark of his work on Mer De Noms, but hitting that sort of sound would require be to have some reverb and delay after my dirty, which is impossible currently with my Orange Rocker 30 head, due to its lack of effects loop. I've narrowed it down to two options, and I need your help deciding which would be better.

 

The first option, and simplest, is to get a Zvex Box Of Metal or some other metal-oriented pedal and use that as my main source of dirt, thus giving me the ability to put it before reverb and delay pedals in my signal chain.

 

The second option, which would cost me more, would be to have my head modified to incorporate an effects loop, something that looks like it will cost around $275 to do. I could boost the dirt channel of my amp with a tube screamer and run reverb and delays in the effects loop, of course.

 

Thoughts, comments, opinions from those that have dealt with the Zvex?

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the spaciousness of delays/verbs is most of that huge sound.

 

unless you want to run a distortion pedal and only use the clean channel on your amp, i think that the only good idea would be to either get an amp w/an fx loop or get one installed.

 

the distortion on the Orange kicks so much ass idk why you would opt for getting tied down to the clean channel. when i was using an AD30, i was able to get howerdel/tool-y type tones out of the 2nd ch. w/boost.

 

get an fx loop put into that thing and get a good delay pedal and you'll be 80% there.

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A different amp might be a good call since the Orange isn't really going to have the super tight low end that works well with really heavy high gain. I would go for something a little less scooped than the BOM though. Not sure whats affordable and would be better though.

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I've never heard this expression before.... I'm trying to figure out if you're referring to the tightness of his playing or multiple overdubs....

 

Both, really. The song Judith has I think 20+ guitar tracks on it, just a massive orchestrated sound.

 

I wouldn't go ahead and mod the Orange, as it'll hurt the resale value. You can probably sell it for $800 and buy a Marshall DSL100 with the funds. They have a great series effects loop on them that can run anything you'd need. Lots of delays and chorus effects would help to approximate his sound.

 

Run it through some Vintage 30 speakers, and play through it with high powered pickups in a mahogany guitar. You'll be 90% there if your chops are up to par. :thu:

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Both, really. The song Judith has I think 20+ guitar tracks on it, just a massive orchestrated sound.


I wouldn't go ahead and mod the Orange, as it'll hurt the resale value. You can probably sell it for $800 and buy a Marshall DSL100 with the funds. They have a great series effects loop on them that can run anything you'd need. Lots of delays and chorus effects would help to approximate his sound.


Run it through some Vintage 30 speakers, and play through it with high powered pickups in a mahogany guitar. You'll be 90% there if your chops are up to par.
:thu:

 

Ahahaha. The chops part comes later, of course. ;)

 

Thanks for the advice. Would a JCM 900 get me anywhere close to his tone, too?

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well he played a vht head, then switched to a modded marshall (1978 jmp superlead), but i dont think he gets his dirt from his head, i think (could very well be wrong here tho) that all of that is done with one of his 9,000 multi-effects racks..... i know their backup guitarist (troy, not james) played a jcm 2000, so i am assuming that any marshall would get you pretty close.

 

EDIT: he also uses a cab loaded with greenbacks, and a cab with v 30's.

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Ahahaha. The chops part comes later, of course.
;)

Thanks for the advice. Would a JCM 900 get me anywhere close to his tone, too?

 

I couldn't comment on the FX loops on the 900 series, but if they are series loops then you should be okay. The 2000 series has some extra EQ options but nothing a Dano Fish n' Chips through the loop of the 900 couldn't approximate.

 

Basically any EL34 head will work well, and couple that with a boost and effects routed through the loop for a clear, hi-fi sound will get you there. Marshalls just seem to be the cheapest solution. :)

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well he played a vht head, then switched to a modded marshall (1978 jmp superlead), but i dont think he gets his dirt from his head, i think (could very well be wrong here tho) that all of that is done with one of his 9,000 multi-effects racks..... i know their backup guitarist (troy, not james) played a jcm 2000, so i am assuming that any marshall would get you pretty close.


EDIT: he also uses a cab loaded with greenbacks, and a cab with v 30's.

 

 

Untrue. His dirt comes from his amp, which has pretty consistently been a Friedman modded JMP as you said.

 

The truth is, however, Mer de Noms is all Amp Farm and no amp. Live his tone is even better and even more crushing.

 

To the OP:

 

Don't mod your amp to get an effects loop. Not only will you never get back any money that you put into the amp for the mod if you ever look to sell, you may in fact, lose money and lower the value of your amp.

 

Your best bet is to buy an amp with an effects loop if that's what you really want.

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I couldn't comment on the FX loops on the 900 series, but if they are series loops then you should be okay. The 2000 series has some extra EQ options but nothing a Dano Fish n' Chips through the loop of the 900 couldn't approximate.


Basically any EL34 head will work well, and couple that with a boost and effects routed through the loop for a clear, hi-fi sound will get you there. Marshalls just seem to be the cheapest solution.
:)

 

 

You have been, by far, the most helpful member I've encountered since joining this board. Thank you.

 

Any suggestions for brands of Delay, Reverb, and that?

 

I could probably find someone that would want to trade for JCM 900. I swear I've seen someone offering that in their signature on here. Now the only problem is my bright orange Avatar cab..

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Any suggestions for brands of Delay, Reverb, and that?


I could probably find someone that would want to trade for JCM 900. I swear I've seen someone offering that in their signature on here. Now the only problem is my bright orange Avatar cab..

 

 

oh my. Eventide Timefactor. That'll do you good.

 

in the loop of my diezel, everyone's delay tricks are doable.

 

any delay pedal should work. i notice that howerdel uses a lot of modulation/mod. delay on his guitar tracks. The Mod. Delay on the Eventide essentially gets you tones off of "The Hollow" and "Magdelena"

 

13th step isnt as nearly as modulated... darker delays like Tape and Analog models should get you close.

 

If you dont want to plunk down the dough for the TF, the Nova delay gets great reviews as well... Honestly, with the right listening environment, and time-based fx post distortion, you can get his tones w/a DD20.

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You have been, by far, the most helpful member I've encountered since joining this board. Thank you.


Any suggestions for brands of Delay, Reverb, and that?


I could probably find someone that would want to trade for JCM 900. I swear I've seen someone offering that in their signature on here. Now the only problem is my bright orange Avatar cab..

 

 

haha, killer man. Thank you!

 

Umm for delays and reverbs, thats personal preference. Now the DSL stuff and some of the 900 stuff has verb built in, so you may not need to get a pedal for that so long as you don't mind not having the abilty to footswitch it on and off. Whatever though.

 

Depending on your budget and how close you want to get to Billy's rig (he uses a ton of rack stuff for his effects), I'd personally look at a delay/chorus type combo. The Visual Sound H20 does this pretty good, you can run that through the loop and get that detuned, spacious kinda sound (like the octave lines in the intro to "Thinking of You", etc.)

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oh my. Eventide Timefactor. That'll do you good.


in the loop of my diezel, everyone's delay tricks are doable.


any delay pedal should work. i notice that howerdel uses a lot of modulation/mod. delay on his guitar tracks. The Mod. Delay on the Eventide essentially gets you tones off of "The Hollow" and "Magdelena"


13th step isnt as nearly as modulated... darker delays like Tape and Analog models should get you close.


If you dont want to plunk down the dough for the TF, the Nova delay gets great reviews as well... Honestly, with the right listening environment, and time-based fx post distortion, you can get his tones w/a DD20.

 

 

{censored} yeah.

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Untrue. His dirt comes from his amp, which has pretty consistently been a Friedman modded JMP as you said.


The truth is, however, Mer de Noms is all Amp Farm and no amp. Live his tone is even better and even more crushing.


To the OP:


Don't mod your amp to get an effects loop. Not only will you never get back any money that you put into the amp for the mod if you ever look to sell, you may in fact, lose money and lower the value of your amp.


Your best bet is to buy an amp with an effects loop if that's what you really want.

 

 

k so, i guess ya any marshall would get you in the ballpark. i agree, dont mess with your amp.

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yes - but dont go for a marshall 900/2000.

 

get the rockerverb 50 if possible... to me Oranges have a more consistent tone. Its just a variation on the British amp voicing. To me, they sound livelier than run-of-the-mill Marshalls, which end up sounding more sterile than real from day to day.

 

i recorded w/a Rockerverb 50, very nice tight low-end. For what my word is worth, you will get APC tones out of an Orange.

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You have been, by far, the most helpful member I've encountered since joining this board. Thank you.


Any suggestions for brands of Delay, Reverb, and that?


I could probably find someone that would want to trade for JCM 900. I swear I've seen someone offering that in their signature on here. Now the only problem is my bright orange Avatar cab..

 

 

The truth is, in this case, I think the 900 is the opposite direction of where you should be looking. The 900 (unless it's the SLX, and even then, IME) is going to be more thin than the Orange Rocker 30 (owned a Rocker 30). The DSL (I've owned in the past) is also not quite as thick as the Orange Rocker 30.

 

I think you should look at the JCM800 (the RI has an effects loop), or some JCM800 type amps (Fargen Olde 800... not sure what they go for used), Bogner Shiva EL34 version, Voodoo VRock (used around 1300), possibly a modded JTM45 or Plexi-type amp (actually, the Egnator Seminar amp may be perfect, though these are pretty hard to buy without going to the seminar).

 

The Orange Rockerverbs may do well, though they can get pretty damn heavy and don't quite have the vintage vibe that even the Rocker 30 has. The ADs would be moving a bit in the wrong direction.

 

There are a few others out there...

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