filters Moogerfooger, Shermann etc.

[agape]

I want to use a filter box along with an organ to produce psychedelic, spacerock, krautrock sounds. Which do you think is more suitable for this use?

[slight-return]

hmm, well given the first two desciptions, I suspect you are going to want filter that "sweeps" (the center frequency of the filter), and an adjustable Q

I would say the Murf is NOT the one you want (the Murf actually does sweep the filters, just by a tiny amt for some animation). They are neat boxes, but I dont think its where you are going

The sherman is neat, but I found it to be a bit over-th-top (which I don't mean as a criticism...that's kind of the point behind the box). I mean it can really, aggressively mess with your sound

Peavey made the "spectrum" filter a while back which was a Moog style filter with some nice features

blacet and doepfer make some interesting modules

The ehx Bifilter is, maybe, a bit more of a tractible unit (it follows a pretty classic design, so it's maybe a bit easier to coax into a "sweetspot")

The moog lowpass is a fairly easy-to-use one with a very familiar moog filter sound


Q : what kind of organ are you using? (are you playing bass pedals? is expression/swell pedal an option for your playing, is it a modern thing with MIDI capabilities?)

[agape]

Well:lol:I still don't have an organ...! i am now using B4 vsti, but I am also thinking of buying an organ (I would prefer, if there is, an easily portable one not those with the whole furniture). I also play often with a friend who has a Farfisa (80's model)

[slight-return]

hmm, so is MIDI control an option (or of interest?)

one thing with organs is that the tend to not have dynamics control except for a swell pedal (so things like envelope following won't modulate/"animate" the filter much) - so a filter that can react to certain MIDI messages, has onboard EG, etc can be helpful

do you play with bass pedals or just a manual?

[inu]

Why not a wha pedal with a wide Q (old Morley, Dunlop with Q setting). That would be cheap. For more variety/subtility, you could also using it in parallel with the dry sound (using a small mixing desk).

Beware of those Sherman filters (or other of this type) as they can be hard on your speakers if you hit some resonating frequencies...

[pbone]

The moog is an absolutely great filter. It's not really a wah, and it is truly a filter. It has an envelope follower, and it's very tweakable. I'd say that it's perfect for any application that requires a filter pedal. Not to mention that you can control any knob with an expression pedal.

[agape]

I don't play with bass pedals

hmm, so is MIDI control an option (or of interest?) one thing with organs is that the tend to not have dynamics control except for a swell pedal (so things like envelope following won't modulate/"animate" the filter much) - so a filter that can react to certain MIDI messages, has onboard EG, etc can be helpful do you play with bass pedals or just a manual?

 

[slight-return]

The moog is an absolutely great filter. It's not really a wah, and it is truly a filter.

even a passive tone control on a guitar is truly a filter

I'd say that it's perfect for any application that requires a filter pedal.

I never really thought of moogophilia as a disorder before

I mean it's a good sounding little guy for the classic diode ladder LP moog filter sound, but perfect for any application is a bit broad.
With organ, the EF might not be as useful as an EG or a EF acting as a pseudo-EG with more comprehensive Attack/Decay controls (like the Sherman, the Bifilter, the Warp-9, etc) on an organ (which doesn't natively have a big, rich dynamics envelope)

[slight-return]

I don't play with bass pedals

So how many feet are you willing to use to control the filter ?

no really, serious question

[pbone]

even a passive tone control on a guitar is truly a filter I'd say that it's perfect for any application that requires a filter pedal. I never really thought of moogophilia as a disorder before I mean it's a good sounding little guy for the classic diode ladder LP moog filter sound, but perfect for any application is a bit broad. With organ, the EF might not be as useful as an EG or a EF acting as a pseudo-EG with more comprehensive Attack/Decay controls (like the Sherman, the Bifilter, the Warp-9, etc) on an organ (which doesn't natively have a big, rich dynamics envelope)

Let's also remember that the sherman is almost 3 times as much as the moog.

[slight-return]

Let's also remember that the sherman is almost 3 times as much as the moog.

Sure! then again if we are talking "perfect for every application"... I mean the moog is about 6 times more than the denelectro auto filter -- that doesn't make the auto filter better suited for "every application"

'course some of the others I mentioned aren't (3 times the moog)

[pbone]

You know what I mean.

No, wait what? That's not what I said. The sherman's better than the moog for sure, but it's three times as expensive. I didn't say it's 3 times as good. Dude, you are taking every word I say too seriously.

[BmoreTele]

There are lots of different kinds of filters - high pass, low pass, band pass, LFO modulated, envelope modulated, etc.

Start your search at DiscoFreq's house http://filters.muziq.be/

You might consider some of the Electrix filters - analog, relatively cheap - check Ebay.

[slight-return]

You know what I mean.

Thats the deal, I'm not sure I do - or, maybe, I'm helping you define what you really do mean or maybe looking at the context -- "every application" is pretty broad.

I mean, I dig you are excited by the Moog stuff...

The sherman's better than the moog for sure, but it's three times as expensive.

I don't know if I would say it's "better" -- it's got a fairly comprehensive featur set. in some ways, it may be "worse"...it tends to be pretty damn extreme and it's easy to fall out of a "sweet spot" on that unit

[Personally, while I understood the FB2, I didn't really connect with it musically]

sure! and dan electro and behringer and DOD and all kinds of stuff can be cheaper still...that doesn't necesarilly make it the right tool for the job

The budget can really be a relative thing...like you prob wouldn't want to replace the Moog with the danelectro b/c it is cheaper and you can afford the moog.
Likewise those in th position to afford a Sherman (and in need of those features) might not want to replace that choice with the Moog based on cost


I didn't say it's 3 times as good.

Never said you did (it would be kind of hard to say "3 times" to a qualitative anyway ) - you siad it was 3 times as expensive. I pointed out that the little denelectro pedal is 6 times cheaper




Dude, you are taking every word I say too seriously.

I dont think Im taking em too seriously, just offering some perspective on em - I mean right now you are really heavilly into the Moog stuff and are impressed. You may not have used (or maybe you have, dunno) the other stuff, you may not have considered issue with issues like the organ application.

Its not a really big deal, that's why I used the emoticons.

but they are some things to consider

[slight-return]

There are lots of different kinds of filters - high pass, low pass, band pass, LFO modulated, envelope modulated, etc.

 

 

dopfer makes a pretty cool multi-mode one (basically mixing filter types, etc to produce hybrid effects) -- I think its the 107, based around one of the "bigger" CEM chips

[slight-return]

Oh hey, one option would be the Line 6 FM-4

It's go a number of modes on it, so as you are still figuring out what you want in a filter, that could be a cool plae to go just to explore


A number of Multi-FX will have various filter ypes, but they are often kinda menu driven and might not be that conducive to just sort of getting your feet wet (depending on how much yo like to work in menus)

[pbone]

I didn't like the FM-4, but it is a good starting place.

[friendlybunny]

Check out the Tube Zipper.

[FatsoForgotso]

I don't play with bass pedals

 

 

you should try.

[agape]

So how many feet are you willing to use to control the filter ? no really, serious question

I am a little ignorant but if you want you can laugh:lol:
Can't I use the filter with hands also? I have seen all these videos from progressive and krautrock bands playing with the knobs of these filter boxes, and I really like it

[slight-return]

I am a little ignorant but if you want you can laugh:lol: Can't I use the filter with hands also? I have seen all these videos from progressive and krautrock bands playing with the knobs of these filter boxes, and I really like it

you certainly can! however -- that removes the control hand from the organ's manual, so you get a little "cirppled" with your organ technique

one way to run it, so that doesn't happen is to use "expression pedals" (basically treadle control, much like the swell pedal you are prob used to already using on your organ and really not that far off on the pedal's musical "role"). This allows you to control things while contrinuing to have full facility up on the manual.
Its nice b/c then you can really modulate stuff through the life of the notes

You'll notice that a lot of "krautrock" type stuff can tends to use sequences, retriggering, arpeggiators, etc (helps with the mechanistic sound) found on synthesizers where the keys don't have to be as central to the notes being executed (and some of the seminal stuff is done on monophonic units that only requir one hand...if that )-- so there is a little more "wiggle" room for taking your hands away

[agape]

you certainly can! however -- that removes the control hand from the organ's manual, so you get a little "cirppled" with your organ technique one way to run it, so that doesn't happen is to use "expression pedals" (basically treadle control, much like the swell pedal you are prob used to already using on your organ and really not that far off on the pedal's musical "role"). This allows you to control things while contrinuing to have full facility up on the manual. Its nice b/c then you can really modulate stuff through the life of the notes You'll notice that a lot of "krautrock" type stuff can tends to use sequences, retriggering, arpeggiators, etc (helps with the mechanistic sound) found on synthesizers where the keys don't have to be as central to the notes being executed (and some of the seminal stuff is done on monophonic units that only requir one hand...if that )-- so there is a little more "wiggle" room for taking your hands away

You are suggesting that I should buy an analog synthesizer, right. Well That is my second thought, I am also checking Alesis ION and Micron. But I thought first to try to work with the organs ...
So if I understood well Line 6 is more suitable for a beginner and of more general use, right?

[slight-return]

You are suggesting that I should buy an analog synthesizer, right.

 

 

nope! this is a thread about filters on organs

(the mention of synthsizers/sequencers, etc was about the"hey don't they use knobs" UI issue - that line started with the question we never did get answered about how many feet you are willing to use)

 

 

So if I understood well Line 6 is more suitable for a beginner and of more general use, right?

 

 

I think it has some good points for your application

-a variety of filter types/control

-the resale on the used market is relatively stable (so if you play with one for a while and go, oh, I find myself using only setting x -- then maybe you can look into dedicated filters in those areas)

-the UI is simple (so you wont get bogged down)

-there is patch memory (like registration presets on an organ) so you can shift types on the fly

 

I think the filters sounds reasonably good, I mean you may want to move on when you find something that really speaks to you, but they are definitely usable (it also has some Pitch-to-monosynth patches, which you may find fun...though probably less usable...keep in mind they are mono)

 

The controls arent as comprehensive as the sherman or the bifilter or the warp 9 or something, but then again, those features you might not use at all

 

[while a little tangential but a note on the synth thing - some synths - like, say, the old pro one - allow you to patch in an external signal as an "extra oscillator" so you can run your organ through the filters/amps, etc on the synth. If you use a fully modular set-up, or even just modules it's pretty much like running pedals in that you can set them up any way you want...much of classic "synthesis" is effects-type treatments!]