Members Tony Scharf Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Tony, the mod matrix has the LFOs as sources. These can speed up into the low audio range (let's say 100Hz). It is not possible to modulate one oscillator with another one (cross mod) using much higher frequencies in the kHz range. Using these higher frequencies to modulate the other oscillator or pulse width gives you different harmonics than be limited to the low audio range. However, if you have the change to play with the Prophet08 try that: bring the filter into self-resonance and switch off the oscillators level. Now turn up the filter audio mod and move the frequency of the OSCB and scan to the upper limit. Now compare this with applying an LFO with the same waveform as the OSCB before to the filter. Turn the filter audio modulation down and use only the LFO to modulate the filter. Increase the speed of the LFO to the max and compare that sound with with other. Now imagine you can cross-modulate between two oscillators and and control the harmonics with the filter. That won't be possible with the P08 unfortunately. If you do not have the chance to do these things I can maybe record the stuff into mp3. Ok, I think I get what your describing. It also doesnt sound like something I (personally) would have the need to do very often. the LFO's on the P8 go up to 261hz, and thats good enough for me. I can do FM tricks like that using the digital synthesis on my PEK if it came down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Currently live in an area devoid of anything synths unless it's a workstation or software so I'll never be able to test a Prophet 08, so I just placed one on order with Sweetwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hmmm...sight unseen type of thing. That's brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Yes, it has a noise generator, available both as audio into the filter and in the mod matrix. All 4 of the LFOs have a random waveform which does S&H duties, so I guess you have 4 available for each voice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hmmm...sight unseen type of thing. That's brave. Not so much when it's Dave Smith. And besides, I can't help where the Air Force puts me. The last time I was able to run through a bunch of gear to test was just before New Years in Cherry Hill NJ. Hell, I may not like the filter on the Prophet 08 as I wasn't happy with the ones on the PolyEvolver and there doesn't seem to be any changes there on paper. It was suspected that I may have had an iffy PEK but got around that with harmonic control in creating my own waveshapes. Being that Dave tweaked the oscillators in the Prophet 08 would mean that it likely has different base harmonics that might work better with the filter setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't think of a single reason why anyone would opt for the P08 over the PEK except for the polyphony and the knobs. Other than this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 ..... I just placed one on order with Sweetwater. Original - or Special Edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't think of a single reason why anyone would opt for the P08 over the PEK except for the polyphony and the knobs. Other than this.... Well Piggy, I would think that you pretty much know me as a guy "outside" the box. I think of my studio as the sum of its' parts and not the pieces individually. In that, the P-08 fills want/needs that the PEK didn't. Besides polyphony, the size and general characteristic sound of the analog side of the PEK prompted me to let it go. I'll say it again, somebody finally made what I asked for on this very forum and I do find the P-08 demo sounds appealing. I have other items to cover what the P-08 can't for studio and/or live use, as do many of you. I'm proudly one of those people that wanted the P-08 over the PEK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 Original - or Special Edition? See Sig below. Aw hell, Special Edition baby. I want the lit wheels, his signature, and the software editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 See Sig below. Aw hell, Special Edition baby. I want the lit wheels, his signature, and the software editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 Mazel Tov. The important thing is how it suits YOUR needs. I'm still befuddled every time I see someone going all goo-goo eyed over Starbuck's Coffee. I HATE coffee. My loss, I guess. Well Piggy, I would think that you pretty much know me as a guy "outside" the box. I think of my studio as the sum of its' parts and not the pieces individually. In that, the P-08 fills want/needs that the PEK didn't. Besides polyphony, the size and general characteristic sound of the analog side of the PEK prompted me to let it go. I'll say it again, somebody finally made what I asked for on this very forum and I do find the P-08 demo sounds appealing. I have other items to cover what the P-08 can't for studio and/or live use, as do many of you. I'm proudly one of those people that wanted the P-08 over the PEK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'm still befuddled every time I see someone going all goo-goo eyed over Starbuck's Coffee. I HATE coffee. My loss, I guess. That's because Starbucks has that gourmet s^&%! I wanna taste my coffee Jules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't think of a single reason why anyone would opt for the P08 over the PEK except for the polyphony and the knobs. Other than this.... ..cause you already have a PEK and there are several things this does that it doesnt. Also, I can run P8 into PEK to get some delay line magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't think of a single reason why anyone would opt for the P08 over the PEK except for the polyphony and the knobs. Other than this.... It's here. It's real. It's now. Ok - so it's not the kind of Solaris/Stromberg GAS inducer. They may offer different types of stuff to gas over - but where are they? (oops, brainfart - that was kind of responding to something you said elsewhere.) The PEK has a bit of digital stuff in its path that some people object to, or don't have a use for. A lot of people too, find 5 note polyphony the useable minimum - I like a minimum of 6 (2-left, 4-right). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't think of a single reason why anyone would opt for the P08 over the PEK except for the polyphony and the knobs. Other than this.... Aside from the items you mentioned above and the general simplicity of the architecture, it'd be the pure signal path. Of course, if one can have both, then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I wanna taste my coffee Jules. I'd rather have Rosie Garafalo throw up into my eyelids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't think of a single reason why anyone would opt for the P08 over the PEK except for the polyphony and the knobs. Other than this.... Would you please explain your reasoning? I am asking this honestly because I am studying the differences between these two keyboards and also the A6 and I am trying to choose which one would be the best for me. The only board I have had a chance to try is the PEK. Please assume that a sufficient number of decent analog and digital effects are already available as well as a decent software wave table synthesizer (Kubik) and a decent software modular (Vaz - which also has wave table capabilities). It looks to me like the P08 is a very nice subtractive polyphonic analog synth with digital control of wave shapes, filter parameters, and modulation routing. It includes an analog sequencer and arpeggiator. Also it has an on-board memory for 256 patches and admits programming and control VIA MIDI. To me, it seems like a very nice package with just about everything I want and nothing I don't like a digital effects processor. Based on what I see in the manual, the one thing that is missing from the P08 is the ability to have a full audio range modulation (LFOs only go up to 261 Hz). It looks to me that FM type sounds - sounds similar to a bell or oil barrel drum for example - are not possible on the P08. The manual states that some of the analog electronics might not respond fast enough to that modulation rate anyway (plus I have not learned enough yet to know if the oscillators can be tuned tightly enough to get good FM over the entire keyboard range anyway). I have heard that the A6 is capable of FM type modulation if you set the tuning to its advanced form at which point what you really have is digitally controlled oscillators which sound more digital anyway. Whew! Anyway, I am leaning towards this synth pretty heavily right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'd rather have Rosie Garafalo throw up into my eyelids. :lol: I love you man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 Would you please explain your reasoning? I am asking this honestly because I am studying the differences between these two keyboards and also the A6 and I am trying to choose which one would be the best for me. The only board I have had a chance to try is the PEK. Please assume that a sufficient number of decent analog and digital effects are already available as well as a decent software wave table synthesizer (Kubik) and a decent software modular (Vaz - which also has wave table capabilities). It looks to me like the P08 is a very nice subtractive polyphonic analog synth with digital control of wave shapes, filter parameters, and modulation routing. It includes an analog sequencer and arpeggiator. Also it has an on-board memory for 256 patches and admits programming and control VIA MIDI. To me, it seems like a very nice package with just about everything I want and nothing I don't like a digital effects processor. Based on what I see in the manual, the one thing that is missing from the P08 is the ability to have a full audio range modulation (LFOs only go up to 261 Hz). It looks to me that FM type sounds - sounds similar to a bell or oil barrel drum for example - are not possible on the P08. The manual states that some of the analog electronics might not respond fast enough to that modulation rate anyway (plus I have not learned enough yet to know if the oscillators can be tuned tightly enough to get good FM over the entire keyboard range anyway). I have heard that the A6 is capable of FM type modulation if you set the tuning to its advanced form at which point what you really have is digitally controlled oscillators which sound more digital anyway. Whew! Anyway, I am leaning towards this synth pretty heavily right now. It's quite simple. If you are a hardcore synthesist, then the A6 is the best choice. If you are more of a middle ground between sythesist and keyboardist, then the P-08 is likely a better choice. A good middle ground. If your all player/keyboardist, then get a Nord Lead 2X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 FWIW: you can get awesome bell and marimba type sounds from one sine wave modulating another. More complex waveforms just add too much clangor with too many sidebands. So a P8 should do just fine with audio modulation of the oscillating filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 It's quite simple. If you are a hardcore synthesist, then the A6 is the best choice. If you are more of a middle ground between sythesist and keyboardist, then the P-08 is likely a better choice. A good middle ground. If your all player/keyboardist, then get a Nord Lead 2X. I'd like to actually counter this. I had an A6 for a long time, and while it was a great instrument, I honestly liked the sound of the analog part of my evolver better. The A6 had more options, and it did have a bigger sound in some respects, but I almost always found myself punching it into unison mode, while the PEK was always thick enough in normal polyphonic mode. I also found the A6 effects to be, really, awful. conversely the delay lines in the PEK (which are individual to each voice and can be modulated per voice!) are more a part of the synth and allow for a very wide range of possibilities the A6 doesnt have. The bottom line is I sold my A6 and havnt missed it. I find the longer I have the PEK, the more I use it. I am adding a P08 to that mix, largely because I do a *lot* of sounds on the PEK that only use the analog electronics (though the delay lines will be missed - I could easily run the P08 through the PEK's inputs if I wanted to) so this frees up my PEK to do other things, and I increase my polyphony for those sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 FWIW: you can get awesome bell and marimba type sounds from one sine wave modulating another. More complex waveforms just add too much clangor with too many sidebands.So a P8 should do just fine with audio modulation of the oscillating filter. A very good point. And its worth mentioning that you could use more than one LFO modulating the same oscillator at low audio rate to get even deeper modulations. I think what it boils down to is that this is *not* a prophet 5. Its a prophet 08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'd like to actually counter this. I had an A6 for a long time, and while it was a great instrument, I honestly liked the sound of the analog part of my evolver better. The A6 had more options, and it did have a bigger sound in some respects, but I almost always found myself punching it into unison mode, while the PEK was always thick enough in normal polyphonic mode. I also found the A6 effects to be, really, awful. conversely the delay lines in the PEK (which are individual to each voice and can be modulated per voice!) are more a part of the synth and allow for a very wide range of possibilities the A6 doesnt have. The bottom line is I sold my A6 and havnt missed it. I find the longer I have the PEK, the more I use it. I am adding a P08 to that mix, largely because I do a *lot* of sounds on the PEK that only use the analog electronics (though the delay lines will be missed - I could easily run the P08 through the PEK's inputs if I wanted to) so this frees up my PEK to do other things, and I increase my polyphony for those sounds. Don't you ever take these statements over to VSE! I didn't much care for the Andromeda either. I thought there was just too much stuff in there to fiddle with and at the time, it had some reliability issues. When I had a PEK, I used the digital side of it exclusively. Quite opposite to most I know but that's where I got the sounds I was after, but still, it didn't have enough polyphony. A bit too much more for the synthesist than a keyboardist. I prefer the balance in the P-08 on paper and in appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 The A6 had more options, and it did have a bigger sound in some respects, but I almost always found myself punching it into unison mode I was thinking of geting one for a while, then when I really had a chance to have a good quality time play it, I came away thinking - yes - I like it overall, but didnt feel it actually added anything to my existing VAs. Sure it could have replaced a couple, and I would have ended up closer to what Im after, but wouldnt have got to what Im after - which is basically a really ballsey animal of an analog - which Ive since found in a Studio Electonic mono synth. This beast seems the most promising so far for me as a poly-analog from the few sound demos etc, but not something Im inclined to pre-order and buy blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 Dave will sell a frigton of P08's...more power to him. I like it when excellent service and products are rewarded with moneys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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