Members hooya Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Will it suck, yes. Is it the only real way that things will be totally better, I believe so. At least as much as nobody seems to offer any other solutions. What boggles my mind is that there are tax evasion laws being broken to felony extremes on Wall Street right now and the feds are literally turning a blind eye because, and this is congress that is saying this, it would be too financially dangerous to enforce the law. Give me a {censored}in' break. They had a failed business model. If I just stopped paying my bills and my credit cards off should I expect a few hundred k to bail me out? You know what I'd do with it? Just what the company execs are: take the money and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thatmullingskid Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L6Sguy Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 You just don't seem to understand the severity of this.In 1932 we had 14% unemployment and that was considered the great depression. Now double that figure. You do the math. sustaining companies, with taxpayer $, while said companies do nothing but fail is just plain stupid. the fallout is predictable, dont expect me to get riled about it now, i've been waiting for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheAtomicJeff Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 perhaps vw should get some prize money for having a 50+mpg car on the market/roads for 20+ yrs? there was mountains of room for US-based improvement aside from alterna fuels, and they passed on that as well and gave us the Escalade instead. {censored} them. Agreed. I would not bail out a GM company that recently ramped up production of the SUV at their plant in Arlington, TX as soon as the friggin gas prices went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faldoe Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 We live in a Fascist society, what do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheAtomicJeff Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 We live in a Fascist society, what do you expect? I expect any future vehicle purchases by me will not be made from GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faldoe Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Nope. We should all convert our current cars to run on water. [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnrambo Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 You just don't seem to understand the severity of this.In 1932 we had 14% unemployment and that was considered the great depression. Now double that figure. You do the math. where in the world did you hear that unemployment could reach 28% i read that if gm goes under it could push unemployment as high as 9.5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drifter182 Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 where in the world did you hear that employment could reach 28%i read that if gm goes under it could push unemployment as high as 9.5% Will it stop their though? This is a high-stakes game of dominos, too much momentum and we are all gonna get {censored}ed in the ass. This would fall into the necesary evil catagory of Wallstreet IMO. I just hope that in a few years when the dust settles people wake the {censored} up. Hard to believe they had achieved 50+ mpg back in 1981 since most American car manufacturers brag about anything over 30+ highway.......... *EDIT* is their a website source with the MPG statistic? that would be a great read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnrambo Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Agreed. I would not bail out a GM company that recently ramped up production of the SUV at their plant in Arlington, TX as soon as the friggin gas prices went down. why would they ramp up production if they're having trouble moving what's on the car lots right now. if this is true than there is no better evidence that this company doesn't belong in business. their short sightedness is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheAtomicJeff Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 why would they ramp up production if they're having trouble moving what's on the car lots right now. if this is true than there is no better evidence that this company doesn't belong in business. their short sightedness is astounding. http://www.wftv.com/news/17945476/detail.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hooya Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 http://www.wftv.com/news/17945476/detail.html Does nothing if not prove how stupid the American Consumer is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnrambo Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Does nothing if not prove how stupid the American Consumer is. GM is also placing a high-stakes bet on its SUV line overseas, opening a new $300 million plant Friday near St. Petersburg, Russia. The plant will produce GM SUVS, the Chevrolet Captiva and Opel Antara, which have become status symbols in Russia, reported Edmunds.com. Chevrolet is the sales champion in Russia, with 190,553 cars sold last year alone, allowing GM to claim a 10.9 percent market share there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheAtomicJeff Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Does nothing if not prove how stupid the American Consumer is. Agreed. When gas jumps near $5.00 per gallon next summer, let those new SUV owners throw their pity parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L6Sguy Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Will it stop their though? This is a high-stakes game of dominos, too much momentum and we are all gonna get {censored}ed in the ass. This would fall into the necesary evil catagory of Wallstreet IMO. I just hope that in a few years when the dust settles people wake the {censored} up. Hard to believe they had achieved 50+ mpg back in 1981 since most American car manufacturers brag about anything over 30+ highway..........*EDIT* is their a website source with the MPG statistic? that would be a great read. its the 81 diesel rabbit i'm thinking of, which evolved into the golf a few yrs later. not like it was anything "special," except for solid minimalist build and great mpg. iirc, the 87ish i had got 54. spoiled me for life. they are seeing 69mpg w/hybrid now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hooya Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 its the 81 diesel rabbit i'm thinking of, which evolved into the golf a few yrs later. not like it was anything "special," except for solid minimalist build and great mpg. iirc, the 87ish i had got 54. spoiled me for life. they are seeing 69mpg w/hybrid now. Add to the fact that the total negative footprint on the environment is worse for a hybrid (nickel mining for the battery) than for a standard. And the fact that a hybrid will not save you money in gas over the lifetime of the car when you factor in initial cost and higher maintenance costs for those engines versus the same car with a standard engine. Better technology exists, but it's just not being used because we're too stupid to hold megacorps accountable. The only way we can hold them accountable is let them fall now that they've finally {censored}ed up enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigFatPaulWall Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 These genius companies had a chance with the ev-1 but destroyed them all and pushed the hummer. now they are tanking. boo-hoo.i say give bail out money to Tesla and Zap (the cars not the bands)and let these crooks go spend their pensions and bonus's on some island somewhere while their companies go the way of 8 track tape(oh, sorry bout the semi-political thread) If that pisses you off, this will enrage you... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1993448 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnrambo Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 And the fact that a hybrid will not save you money in gas over the lifetime of the car when you factor in initial cost and higher maintenance costs for those engines versus the same car with a standard engine. i don't think these cars have been out long enough to pass judgment on there long term maintenance costs. I've got a lot of faith in Toyota to make good quality vehicles. i don't doubt that the labor costs to work on them are higher but as far as reliability goes we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L6Sguy Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Add to the fact that the total negative footprint on the environment is worse for a hybrid (nickel mining for the battery) than for a standard. And the fact that a hybrid will not save you money in gas over the lifetime of the car when you factor in initial cost and higher maintenance costs for those engines versus the same car with a standard engine. Better technology exists, but it's just not being used because we're too stupid to hold megacorps accountable. The only way we can hold them accountable is let them fall now that they've finally {censored}ed up enough. well yeah, i'm not in favor of hybrid, but the idea of 70mpg as a standard should be chased. folks act like 35mpg is efficient bring the teslas/etc, let the competition heat up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeremy Skrenes Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Environmental impact of hybrids aside, what I don't get is that you can't hardly get one nowadays. THAT's the car people want, and the auto industry has been ramping up SUV production. They should be making more hybrids. And wiis. How come they can't just start making wiis. We can't get enough of them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jorhay1 Posted November 18, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 If that pisses you off, this will enrage you... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1993448 yes i am enraged (makes me want to pay taxes to help these kind auto companies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thatmullingskid Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 i feel very out of place... i'm 18, about to move out and be poor... not to mention, my dad is in the car business AND has to try and sell his house with all the lending bs.... and i'm calm as {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 I have to agree on this one. I don't think the auto industry should get a public bailout. It will only postpone the inevitable. The US auto companies cannot continue to function in the long run. They didn't make small fuel-efficient cars, but it's not because their management is stupid. It's because the profit margins on small cars is much lower than the margins on big SUV's and trucks, and there's no way they could build a car with the same quality as a Toyota or Honda, and still sell it as cheap as a foreign car. Foreign auto companies build their cars in the US in non-Union shops, and have far lower labor costs than US car companies. The US car companies have contracts with the labor unions that they can't break, and the unions have made it clear they won't be making any concessions to help bail out the car makers. There are only two ways the US can continue to manufacture cars and stay profitable. Either they have to break the UAW, or they have to find a way to force foreign car companies to increase wages and organize their workers. I don't see any chance of either of these happening, so the only other option is to let them go bust. Throwing money at it will not make this problem go away. If that pisses you off, this will enrage you...http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1993448 There's no long term future in NiMH technology. It's already less efficient than Lithium Ion, and that's not a long term solution either. I also don't see anything particularly suspicious about oil companies buying other energy technologies. They aren't stupid. They know that oil won't last forever, and they're preparing for the future. They don't even call themselves "oil companies" any more. They call themselves "energy companies". Did you know that British Petroleum is one of the world's largest producers of solar panels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigFatPaulWall Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 There's no long term future in NiMH technology. It's already less efficient than Lithium Ion, and that's not a long term solution either.I also don't see anything particularly suspicious about oil companies buying other energy technologies. They aren't stupid. They know that oil won't last forever, and they're preparing for the future. They don't even call themselves "oil companies" any more. They call themselves "energy companies".Did you know that British Petroleum is one of the world's largest producers of solar panels? Lithium Ion technology is incredibly expensive. So are solar panels (wonder why?...they've been on the market since the 70's). I do see something suspicious about oil companies buying alternative energy patents...especially when said oil company sits on those patents for as long as {censored}ing possible without any development being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted November 18, 2008 Members Share Posted November 18, 2008 Lithium Ion technology is incredibly expensive. So are solar panels (wonder why?...they've been on the market since the 70's).I do see something suspicious about oil companies buying alternative energy patents...especially when said oil company sits on those patents for as long as {censored}ing possible without any development being done. Solar panels are expensive because solar cells are expensive. The manufacturing technology is essentially the same as for other semiconductors, except that you only get one solar cell from a single silicon wafer, instead of dozens of IC's or hundreds of transistors. Dye-sensitized solar cells may change that, though. They are only about 1/3 as efficient as conventional thin-film cells, so a panel would have to be much larger to produce the same voltage and current, but they're much less expensive to make. Many industry insiders are predicting that DSC's will finally make solar electricity production competitive with fossil fuels on a cost basis. BTW, the most recent of those patents you cited was granted in 2006 on an application filed in 2002, and is for a hydrogen fuel cell. They applied for another patent for a hybrid fuel cell in 2003, and it was granted just last month (patent 7,435,492). Obviously, they ARE continuing to research this because they continue to apply for and receive new patents, and it's been years since the Ovonic Corporation was originally acquired by GM, then Texaco, then Chevron. They aren't buying these patents. They have been, and continue to invent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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