This documentary I'm in (noise/experimental "music" content)

[akliner]

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that one. This third sentence of yours is pure ignorance. If you don't like a sound you hear, you are entirely justified thinking to yourself "oh {censored}, this is bull{censored}" and walking away. As I do when I pass most music venues playing the kind of sequencer jack-off or blues-rock rerererehashed stuff many folks on here spend their time, energy, and love promoting. But don't say that you know anything about what the people are or are not doing in that place, because this statement makes it clear that you do not. Btw many of my fav acts have "scores". A handful I know are employed in their day jobs as video game sound designers, or are active in other musical genres. They know exactly what they are doing and want to be doing it, unrepeatable or no. In answer to is it music, I do think that some acts are doing something more akin to sculpture than music, but that's neither here nor there. You don't like it, that's fine. Pretending to know anything about it from a trailer I have stated is a misleading into is, well.. I think I'm going to link this discussion with the noise forums, so they can have a laugh. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Noises (circa 1913)

Listen, you pretentious ass, you have only taken half of my quote. I was trying to open up the conversation to new ideas. I said by the conventional definition of music, noise is immediately disqualified. By "no legacy" I meant, there is no way to leave a record of noise performance behind...i.e. there's no way to score noise (in a way that an orchestra can play it) so that other musicians can play the tracks 100 years from now (I should have made that more clear).

I did mention that as an anti-music statement, I think it's fascinating. I support people who make it, though I HATE the way it sounds.

Don't misrepresent me as ignorant and unyielding just because I don't like the way your static sonatas sound.

[akliner]

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that one. This third sentence of yours is pure ignorance. If you don't like a sound you hear, you are entirely justified thinking to yourself "oh {censored}, this is bull{censored}" and walking away. As I do when I pass most music venues playing the kind of sequencer jack-off or blues-rock rerererehashed stuff many folks on here spend their time, energy, and love promoting. But don't say that you know anything about what the people are or are not doing in that place, because this statement makes it clear that you do not. Btw many of my fav acts have "scores". A handful I know are employed in their day jobs as video game sound designers, or are active in other musical genres. They know exactly what they are doing and want to be doing it, unrepeatable or no. In answer to is it music, I do think that some acts are doing something more akin to sculpture than music, but that's neither here nor there. You don't like it, that's fine. Pretending to know anything about it from a trailer I have stated is a misleading into is, well.. I think I'm going to link this discussion with the noise forums, so they can have a laugh. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Noises (circa 1913)

My very point.

[Diametro]

[akliner]

I see your...

...and raise you a:

[Diametro]

 

God bless the noise makers ...

[akliner]

...

[girevik]

I did not know Baltimore had a respected noise scene. Maybe I'll look into it.

 

 

It's an awesome scene. The Red Room was my introduction to the scene and is still an excellent venue for noise shows (they also put on free improv shows):

 

http://www.redroom.org/

 

Unfortunately, you probably just missed High Zero Festival, Baltimore's annual 4-day festival of noise and free improv which occurs in September or October.

 

Peter Blasser is one of Baltimore's resident geniuses when it comes to electronic instrument design and performance. Several Baltimore musicians use his instruments: http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/

 

Neil Feather is one of the godfathers, if not the godfather of the Baltimore creative music scenes. He's always encouraging people to come out and play. He prefers to make noise on his self-built metal instruments: http://www.neilfeather.org/

[girevik]

there's no way to score noise (in a way that an orchestra can play it) so that other musicians can play the tracks 100 years from now (I should have made that more clear).

 

 

I've seen several noise musicians work with scores. They are not traditionally notated scores, but they are score. Some even go so far as to write out what knob settings to use at certain parts of the piece.

 

Some noise performances are completely improvised, but others are very organized. The latter type is where it is easier to perceive the structure and the hard work that went into creating it - not much different than Edgar Varese's works (minus the trad instruments).

[Allerian]

So now one's musical validity is suddenly tied to the ability to allow others to play your music? Fascinating. DaVinci didn't leave an explanation of how to paint the Mona Lisa, but the painting is still quite wonderful.

The core of humanity continues to be the judgement of others.

[girevik]

Could you and/or Allerian provide some links to the "choice" noise? I'm interested in hearing it having somewhat built up an expectation lately over what noise music could be .

 

Sounds like you made up your mind already. Which makes posting of said links kind of pointless.

 

If I'm wrong though, you can check out the links I posted to akliner.

[Re-Member]

Not sure. So far I've been to a few house shows and many of the Cacophony events at the Someday Lounge. I tend not to mingle with people and isolate myself in a corner with my girlfriend. We both moved here alone early this year and don't really know anyone.

 

I'm not too into harsh Power Electronics as I am into bands who just really push the envelope with their performance art. A lot of shows I've been to in California have ended in bloodshed, nudity, destruction of venues, police being called, etc.

 

That's not to say I dislike Portland's noise scene, in fact I've already taken a liking to Argumentix and Pulse Emitter's work. I'm just merely pointing out that Portland's scene has a general mellow and perhaps less political vibe in contrast to some of the other scene's I've been exposed to while living in CA.

 

Unfortunately, I have work till 8:00 PM on the 29th followed by a 30 minute bus ride home, so I doubt I can show up.

 

I plan on diving into the scene myself, but I still have lots of writing and programming to do. I'm aiming for spoken word with slightly poppy and beat driven noises. I'm more inspired by early synthpop acts and industrial music than noise, but like to mix up the two.

 

 

 

PS: The trailer's also on youtube. Re-Member: Have I seen you at a show? Come to my house on the 29th. Baltimore, Cleveland, Providence acts on tour. Should be mental. And I agree with you re: LA/pdx difference. It is way too mellow in Portland to feed a scene of really gripping power electronics/harsh noise (although those acts exist.. Danial Menche.. Behalf.. Josh Hydeman.. Oscillating Innards..).. most of the acts are much more psychedelic/collage oriented.

 

[akliner]

So now one's musical validity is suddenly tied to the ability to allow others to play your music? Fascinating. DaVinci didn't leave an explanation of how to paint the Mona Lisa, but the painting is still quite wonderful.

 

 

 

 

No. I'm not neccesarily saying THAT.

 

What I'm saying is that MUSIC in the traditional, conventional sense, is the organization of sound in time. Musical notation is the common language that allows the creator's work to live on at the hands of other musicians. The score is its legacy (granted, now we have recordings, but let us think in terms of live performance only).

 

Along that line of logic (supported by the academic definition of music), the noise genre is immediately dismissed from being MUSIC because there is no organization or notation that speaks the same language as other instruments. It does not share itself with genres of organized sound. It dies with its creator (remember, performance only).

 

Now, I understand that some noise composers have organization to their tracks and they have developed unique notations to mark the paremeters of their noise generating devices.

 

Though I openly admit to HATING the sound of noise, I am not discrediting NOISE as an artform. It isn't music...and why would you get so upset by that? It seems to have been developed as an anti-music. It seems, to me, to celebrate breaking the "rules" of music. Why would you even want it call it MUSIC?

 

It's fascinating to me as a performance art.

 

 

The core of humanity continues to be the judgement of others.

 

 

Oh, very poetic. Do you smell your own farts, too?

[Allerian]

Could you and/or Allerian provide some links to the "choice" noise?

Gads... that Merzbow clip. I seriously have no idea how he became famous for this stuff.

At the risk of playing my music to someone who isn't going to enjoy it, I'll just ask that you listen fully and keep an open mind:

Control of the Human Mind

Delivery

Solar Flare (wow, forgot how wild this gets - good speakers a must)

Aside from me, check out Khate. She is the end-all do-all creative superstar of noise, imo.

[Allerian]

Though I openly admit to HATING the sound of noise, I am not discrediting NOISE as an artform. It isn't music...and why would you get so upset by that? It seems to have been developed as an anti-music. It seems, to me, to celebrate breaking the "rules" of music. Why would you even want it call it MUSIC?

 

 

We disagree and that is okay, I have no interest in riling you up or somehow "winning". This is a good reminder to myself that I create this material especially for my own enjoyment and if others happen to enjoy it, well that's a bonus.

[akliner]

You have a puzzling attitude. We disagree and that is okay, I have no interest in riling you up or somehow "winning". This is a good reminder to myself that I create this material especially for my own enjoyment and if others happen to enjoy it, well that's a bonus.

You have to remember, man, I'm very playfully combative. It's obvious if you knew me personally, but online I guess it's harder to tell.

I can see why you think my attitude it puzzling, but you have to remember I'm a theatre artist as well as a musician.

I like to look at any kind of new form or trend in performance. Noise on a performative level is very interesting to me especially when you consider the social context behind it...or at least why I perceive to be a reaction against music as it exists. That, to me, is captivating. I love revolution.

On an aural aesthetic level, though, I am completely turned off by noise.

Hence the apparent paradox.

But I'm totally with you on making the art you want to make, in any carnation. If it sounds good to you, then you're a successful artist. Also, clearly, there's a market for the work you do.

I accpet responsibility and culpability for not being knowledgable about the noise movement in my own backyard. I will investigate that more deeply.

[akliner]

P.S. for you noise guys...

Has there been any mention of the DADA movement as a manifesto inspiration for the work you do?

All this talk has reminded me of Tristan Tzara and his theatre work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada

[Allerian]

It's all good, I enjoy a little back and forth on a good topic.

The core of humanity continues to be the judgement of others. Oh, very poetic. Do you smell your own farts, too?

Thank you. I am actually named after a poet.

Things I know about akliner:
* Hates noise.
* Is curious about the farts of others.
* Enjoys poetry.

[girevik]

I can see why you think my attitude it puzzling, but you have to remember I'm a theatre artist as well as a musician.

 

 

That makes sense - I think you'll be able to relate to a couple of Baltimore musicians on some level then (the theatrical aspects, and Audrey is into contact improvisation dance too). Pete Blasser loved to incorporate theater into his shows when I first saw him perform.

 

Others though are more of the tweak and concentrate variety (as opposed to engage the audience in some visual manner).

[Allerian]

One thing I've really teetered on is the live performance of noise material. The real turn off for me is (flame suit on) the people who show up at noise shows. The lesser turn off is the performers who make it seem like controlling a laptop or bent toy is equivalent to an orgasm. Guys, it was cool when Jim Morrison and Joe Cocker did it - but most just look like a dorky kid playing a toy keyboard poorly.

[akliner]

That makes sense - I think you'll be able to relate to a couple of Baltimore musicians on some level then (the theatrical aspects, and Audrey is into contact improvisation dance too). Pete Blasser loved to incorporate theater into his shows when I first saw him perform. Others though are more of the tweak and concentrate variety (as opposed to engage the audience in some visual manner).

 

 

Sounds interesting. I WILL check it out.

 

 

One thing I've really teetered on is the live performance of noise material. The real turn off for me is (flame suit on) the people who show up at noise shows. The lesser turn off is the performers who make it seem like controlling a laptop or bent toy is equivalent to an orgasm. Guys, it was cool when Jim Morrison and Joe Cocker did it - but most just look like a dorky kid playing a toy keyboard poorly.

 

 

I have to say, this kind of behavior is kind of where my stereotype of noise evolved from. Primarily the "fans" who will mosh and dance and I think "pretend" to get into what they're hearing. And then you'll see them at the bar talking about how profoundly beautiful the noise is and that it moved them to tears because it was so "honest" and "gorgeous".

[Allerian]

I have to say, this kind of behavior is kind of where my stereotype of noise evolved from. Primarily the "fans" who will mosh and dance and I think "pretend" to get into what they're hearing. And then you'll see them at the bar talking about how profoundly beautiful the noise is and that it moved them to tears because it was so "honest" and "gorgeous".

Agreed. If you're going to do a visual show, really do it. If you're just going to put on a helmet covered with knobs and lunge at your table of gear like it's meaningful...

And here I am judging others.

[akliner]

Agreed. If you're going to do a visual show, really do it. If you're just going to put on a helmet covered with knobs and lunge at your table of gear like it's meaningful... And here I am judging others.

If you're worried about sounding judgemental, use the term "reacting to" instead of "judging". It's what we artsy folk use.

Instead of

If you're going to do a visual show, really do it. If you're just going to put on a helmet covered with knobs and lunge at your table of gear like it's meaningful

Use

Coming heavily from a theatrical perspective, I question the artist's choice to limit his mobility and sense of spectacle during the performance. Although it was interesting to watch him passionately turning knobs on his equipment, the choice of wearing a helmet seemed out of place with his otherwise minimal use of visual elements

See! Now you sound smart and diplomatic!

[nat whilk II]

It helps, if you are inclined to at least try to approach listening to noise material, if you already have a liking for genres like dark ambient, industrial, etc.

It sounds silly, but you have to just like "noise", like a painter likes "color" or "form" - any color, any form, any noise, any timbre. Of course, if you just self-indulge this liking and don't work it up into a communicable form, IMHO you aren't making any sort of art or music or craft.

And maybe some of the "noise artists" are into making anti-art statements. Ok, it's a free country, etc., but that's a tired old angle, a one-point dogma sort of statement which once you've seen, you've seen'em all.

But if you don't get off to the sheer sounds of things like running engines, dishwashers, construction noises, boiling water, explosions, radio static, the buzz of voices and feet in a large, echoey mall, the reverb of an overdriven boombox in a large aluminum-sided shed, the sound you get dragging an old heavy metal file cabinet over a concrete floor.....maybe the noise thing is not your cuppa.

Calling the genre "Noise" has an ironical edge to it, anyway. The terms implies at least in many usages an unwanted, unpleasant thing, like "pain" or "nausea". So the genre name operates in itself as sort of a gatekeeper to the experience of the performances, setting up audience expectations according to their predilections and how the term "noise" connotes to each listener.

Jack Dangers has some interesting stuff along these lines, using his incredible EMS Synthi 100 and who knows what else sampled and mangled....

http://www.amazon.com/Loudness-Clarifies-Electronic-Music-Tapelab/dp/B000654Z0K/ref=m_art_bow_1/002-2126077-8425623

Disc 2 of Loudness Clarifies is all pure-dee noise.

nat whilk ii

[sizzlemeister]

Sounds like you made up your mind already. Which makes posting of said links kind of pointless. If I'm wrong though, you can check out the links I posted to akliner.

No, I have not made up my mind, rather it's like being told what a wine tastes like (or reading about its "qualities" on the label) before opening the bottle to actually taste it. Even after listening to the clip Piggish posted I'm still open to listening to more, especially based on the subsequent conversation here.

Another art-as-food analogy: you may not like one kind of bleu cheese, but another will stun you with its incredible taste. And that's only one kind of cheese. It'd be pretty foolish to "make up one's mind" based on a sampling that is shamefully insignificant compared to the scope of the subject, no?

:poke:

[Allerian]

Even after listening to the clip Piggish posted I'm still open to listening to more, especially based on the subsequent conversation here.

 

 

Give the tracks I posted for you back on page 2 a try.

 

[shameless plug]Or hit the cdbaby link in my signature and listen to one of the best noise albums out there.[/shameless plug]