Members vinnies Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 alright, i'm in. wish i had time to read the posts and get in on the {censored}storm. anyhoo, in before someone insults someone and phil shuts the whole {censored}ing thing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 can you explain something to me? Why anyone in their right mind gives a {censored} what it says on "Baltimore Christian Conservative Examiner" anyway the answer is 'because it contradicts what they believe to be the word of god." .... it's a simple and obvious answer really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 prime example of faith here(see "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence) No, I just expect more than establishing an entire world view on the basis of two things looking similar. You demonstrated poor logic, nothing more; begging the question and non sequitur fail. I notice you also ignored my other post challenging you to prove other minds or the spontaneous appearance of the universe... path of least resistance fail. If you want to talk about grown up stuff like speciation or genetics, let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Just as much in common between the earth and a beach ball! I'm not saying I believe this; I'm saying your example shows YOU believe this. At least your logic allows for this possibility. Reading comprehension fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Amazing. You seldom see true beauty on HCFX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woolyh Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 why of course, why didn't i see it before, god is flying spaghetti monster!now i'm gonna have monkey sex and join the United Atheist Alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Loobs Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Rushfan = fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skitzy Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 I'm not saying I believe this; I'm saying your example shows YOU believe this. At least your logic allows for this possibility. Reading comprehension fail. earth's not a sphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 ignorance is bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 earth's not a sphere LOL! Let's attack semantics not the arguments. Fine it's not a perfect sphere... it's a little squished. So are most beach balls. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members josh27 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 No, I just expect more than establishing an entire world view on the basis of two things looking similar. You demonstrated poor logic, nothing more; begging the question and non sequitur fail. I notice you also ignored my other post challenging you to prove other minds or the spontaneous appearance of the universe... path of least resistance fail. If you want to talk about grown up stuff like speciation or genetics, let us know. No, you missed the point. The idea of evolution is not that a monkey gave birth to a human and we are looking for the for that monkey. The idea is that over many many generations this species underwent mutations in DNA and developed what we now consider to be human-like traits. Far enough down the line we have humans. Other descendants of the original species became other apes.The theory is not based on two skeletons looking similar, we have found many links in the chain and scientists do have a general chronology of the chain toward humans.All this said I am religious and understand and believe evolution. To the OP and others: don't label religious people together and assume you understand their individual beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 If you want to talk about grown up stuffyou REALLY think comparing a beach ball to a planet is the same as comparing a monkey to a human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Here's a question: why do people think evolutionary theory is fact? Scientists don't, so why does anyone?OK, so it's the best science has got at the moment, but the idea of the universe spontaneously springing in to existence however many billion years ago and life evolving by a process nobody has seen in all the years scientists have been observing nature is still pretty speculative, and IMO no more or less ridiculous than the idea of a creator "God", whether you choose to use the Judeo-Christian model of God or not.Insisting that science and religion (Christianity at least) are in some sort of irreconcilable conflict for the truth is bad science and bad theology.BTW, Ben Allison gets a big from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 why is it that people with a mediocre understanding of science always try to use it against people of faith.... none of my coleagues try to do that, in fact the only people I have really seen try to convince religious people that they are wrong were actually philosophy and social science students/graduates....(or more importantly, all knowing atheist high school students... because we all know, teenagers have the most profound understanding of science and spirituality......) the great irony being is that they dont truly understand any of the science that they are championing as fact, they are just believing it blindly..... always amuses me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 why is it that people with a mediocre understanding of science always try to use it against people kind of like the article the OP posted? "Just because the monkey had some similar types of bones, doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members claytonjohn18 Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 In before the ban . . . .on page 4 ? ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 kind of like the article the OP posted? "Just because the monkey had some similar types of bones, doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skitzy Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Here's a question: why do people think evolutionary theory is fact? Scientists don't, so why does anyone? I don't belive the whole human 'evolutional theory' is fact, but I do believe animal and plant evolution is proven as true. ....at it's most basic and currently topical, take the 'swine flu' ..... that virus has evolved, mutated, changed or whatever you want to call it, I believe that it's evolved to survive which is what I believe everything in nature does. (or fails and dies) and something that all living things on the planet will probably need to continue doing over the next million years as our planet changes. Why do I believe it as fact? because there is so much evidence to support it. It's impossible to know for sure I guess, but I feel like I've seen enough to except it as true in the same way I would probably feel safe putting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Far enough down the line we have humans. Other descendants of the original species became other apes.The theory is not based on two skeletons looking similar, we have found many links in the chain and scientists do have a general chronology of the chain toward humans. Yes. I never believed this was about comparing simple morphoplogy; that was Robo's contribution. Now, the similarities are impossible to ignore; they're plain as day, both genetic and morphological. The problem, though, is that enough links have not been made to satisfy me, or others. Similarities are not, in and of themselves, proof. The idea that mutation over time leads to new species makes some degree of sense on the surface, but what bothers me is that the concept, while "reasonable," has not really been empirically shown. We have not clearly shown that the sum total of mutation over time is beneficial. Most mutations we observe are in fact detrimental. What we see is decay and tendency toward entropy, not improvement. We are focusing on all the similarities at the expense of the differences: a single base pair out of whack can mean deformity, disease, or even a miscarriage and death. 2% difference? 5% difference? 10% difference? Light years distant in some sense. Furthermore, what we think we know about "natural selection" is kinda falling out from under us: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090330200821.htm I'm surprised that people who know next to nothing about science are experts when it comes to "science vs religion." It's a joke! And for all this talk of evolution, no one ever really talks about the possible options for abiogenesis... we leave it in the shadows because abiogenisis is a statistical impossibility. The evolutionst's argument typically depends on it though. One possible answer is that life came here from somewhere else in the universe... this mean the scientist gets to wash their hands of having to prove how it came to be in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 Why do I believe it as fact? because there is so much evidence to support it. It's impossible to know for sure I guess, but I feel like I've seen enough to except it as true in the same way I would probably feel safe putting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Naterel Posted May 20, 2009 Members Share Posted May 20, 2009 {censored} your science and {censored} your religion and {censored} your gear and {censored} your beliefs and {censored} this post in this {censored}ing thread tupac lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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