Members Miket156 Posted May 16, 2008 Members Share Posted May 16, 2008 Quote by Gigman: "I should take advantage of the $100 rebate Yam. has going now on the S90ES" I wasn't aware that Yamaha had a rebate on the S90ES. I guess that means they have an S90XS coming, that's usually the way it works. I can understand that if you are going to replace your long standing Ensoniq KB, you don't want to try to save $1000 over the Kurzweil or Roland and then not be satisfied with it. I guess it depends on what sounds are the most important too you. The S90ES piano is excellent. Does it compare well with the new Roland? Maybe not, but looking at the other sounds the Roland has, I think that the over-all sound set on the S90ES is excellent, you won't be unhappy with the wide variety of sounds on it. I've had a Motif ES8 for over 3 years (same sound set) and I still love the sounds. I've edited a number of them to my taste, and there really aren't ANY sounds that are unusable. A real pleasant surprise when I got the ES8 was how good the Rhodes sounds are on it. There are a number of them that I love and I switch off between four or five different Rhodes sounds so it never gets old. Gary, I have to agree with you about how good the Kurzweil string sounds are, I've always felt that was their strong suit. Very musical, very lush. Even if the samples are dated, the PC3x engine is an upgrade, and it should sound great. I don't know that I would want to run out and spend over 3k on it if I didn't plan on using the sequencer. I guess where I'm coming from is that the S90ES is the best value. If I thought the sounds weren't good, I wouldn't say that. Do the other two choices you are looking at sound "better"? Maybe, but not in all cases, and there are sounds on the S90ES that are excellent, and the difference in the price compared to any real difference in the sounds may not be worth the extra money to get the higher priced models. The other thing is, only you know what sounds are the most important to you. What is right for me, may not be right for you. Take your time and choose wisely (you usually do if I recall from our past conversations). Whatever board you buy you will have for a long time. Happy hunting buddy and I hope the gig situation in good 'ole Jersey is still as good as ever for you. Enjoy your summer vacation! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reptilian Posted May 16, 2008 Members Share Posted May 16, 2008 as a Kurzweil user just can say: Just try it on the store before making a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reptilian Posted May 16, 2008 Members Share Posted May 16, 2008 Kurzweil hasn't (and probably won't) publish the Waveform ROM numbers and the reason is obvious -- their numbers are lower than the competition.It's not like Kurzweil can't release some type of "linear equivalent ROM" number like the other companies.Kurzweil wants to focus the customer on how the keyboard actually sounds, rather than get caught up in a numbers game.It's not a bad strategy. To have thousand of sounds doesnt matter because the really important thing for me is the usable sounds. Roland i think (in my opinion) has nice sounds too.. You took a very good picture of whats going on: Kurzweil is focused mostly in sound quality. but anyway, I have a K2661, which maybe have less sounds that competition, and I havent needed more sounds yet (without count the old models' library in the smart media). I think everything is there: very good and editable piano sounds, very good organs and electric pianos, very very good analog and electronic sounds, amazing orchestral sounds, very good "funky sounds", very good acustic instruments in general, very good atmospheric sounds... and if you need more, there are some good expansion cards like the classic synths (classic vintage sounds), a piano expansion, voices, etc, everything with the kdfx (very good effects) and VAST. What else would i need?. Well as i said, the best thing is to try by yourself in the store, maybe everybody have different tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keyrick Posted May 17, 2008 Members Share Posted May 17, 2008 Gigman, I own both the S90ES and the PC3x. Mike was mistaken about the size of the S90ES relative to the PC3x. The S90ES is a large board and it weighs a bunch. The PC3x uses the same case as the PC2x, is smaller than the S90ES, and it weighs less(55 lbs.) I have not played the G series roland yet, so I can't comment about the action, but I do own a Fantom XR, and I really like the patches available on it. Before I got my PC3x, I gigged with a PC2x, which replaced my KS-32. If you like the action on the KS-32, you will like the action on the PC3x. The Yammy is a bit stiffer. I like the Pianos on the Kurz better than the Yammy. The XR has the "Ultimate Grand" on it and it is a great acoustic piano patch, IMHO, and all of the Kurz pianos are in that same league. The S700 on the Yamaha is quite nice as well, but for gigging, the Kurz is a notch above. The orchestra and strings on the Kurz are the best I have ever heard on a hardware synth. The brass is OK. The Kurz is a very deep machine, with 32 layers per voice, but the presets are very useable right out of the box. The KB3 mode is improved over the PC2x and the K2600. Not quite as good as a dedicated clone, but if you don't do much organ, you will be pleased, especially with the realtime controll of the 9 drawbar sliders that are almost as usuable as the real thing. Again, you can tweak this as well. I got it to match my VK8 with some tweaking. Their presets put too many effects like keyclick and leakage on some of the voices. Remove that stuff and it sounds pretty good. The Leslie sim is vastly improved over the PC2x. My only beef with it is there is no "Stop", just "Choral" and "Fast". But that can be tweaked as well. I am running version 1.01 and version 1.1 is supposed to be out next week. It takes about 30 seconds to update it through the USB port. You can check out more at the "Sonikmatter" web site. I asked for a voice to be added when I was running on version 0.9 (I'm sure I wasn't the only one) and when I loaded version 1.01, it was there. Kurz is very involved with their users, more so than any other manufacturer that I have seen. OK, I'm rambling. If you have any questions, please let me know and I will try to answer them. Good luck. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted May 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 So Rick - do you gig w/the PC3X and leave the S90ES at home? Interesting... wish I had that kind of disposable income (to be able to buy not one, but two different 88key machines) What kind of gigs do you do (rock, jazz, wedding band, etc...)? Oh & btw - the $100 rebate on the S90ES was over on 03.31.08 so I missed out on that, oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 As far as the Korg M3 - Korg makes great synths (I had an M1 and currently own a Triton Le) but their acoustic piano sounds make you want to blow chunks (they're horrible). The M3 acoustic piano is excellent. Opening up the velocity to +8 is the trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 ofunk - Good to hear your impressions... when you decided to take the plunge for the RD700GX, had you tried out or considered the other contenders: Yam. S90ES, Kurz. PC3X, or even the lighter-weight Roland RD300GX - or did you not agonize over every little detail (like I do) and just go on gut instinct (and maybe published specs) instead? Just curious what drove you to your final purchase. I mostly agree with O funk, but I think the GX Expressive Grand patch is the dogs balls. Its great for classical pieces with lots of dynamics. Thats just one example. I own the XS7 Motif, its a beauty. Can't help you on the S90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Hope you all had a great weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 I mostly agree with O funk, but I think the GX Expressive Grand patch is the dogs balls. Its great for classical pieces with lots of dynamics. Thats just one example. I own the XS7 Motif, its a beauty. Can't help you on the S90 Cool, so it's not just me who likes the Expressive Grand. It's the most fun digital piano I have ever played. Or any piano, for the matter... I don't have any expensive piano, just a crappy spinet. Akliner, my weekend was fantastic, I hope yours was too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Cool, so it's not just me who likes the Expressive Grand. It's the most fun digital piano I have ever played. Or any piano, for the matter... I don't have any expensive piano, just a crappy spinet. Akliner, my weekend was fantastic, I hope yours was too! Still in turmoil over digipianos...sigh. 700gx sounds like the sex. Also, this weekend I made an offer on a house. Got my fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 yep still not digging the Expressive... that just shows what each of us deems to be a "great sound" in general I guess ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Still in turmoil over digipianos...sigh.700gx sounds like the sex.Also, this weekend I made an offer on a house. Got my fingers crossed. Oh wow!! Congratulations!!! Get your RD700GX now, once you have the house, it might be a while until you'll have money to spend on a synth!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nicky Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 The PC3x uses the same case as the PC2x, is smaller than the S90ES, and it weighs less(55 lbs.) The S90Es is bulkier than the PC3X, but it weighs less-49lbs vs 55lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Oh wow!! Congratulations!!!Get your RD700GX now, once you have the house, it might be a while until you'll have money to spend on a synth!! Haha. True. Actually I'm taking out a loan for some supplemental student costs when I'm in grad school (I'll only be working part time). I need it to get a new computer...wherein I will also invest in studio monitors and a FireWire mixer and Logic. So...perhaps if I sell the Motif I can use some of that $$ to do the 700gx. I'd rather play it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Haha. True. Actually I'm taking out a loan for some supplemental student costs when I'm in grad school (I'll only be working part time). I need it to get a new computer...wherein I will also invest in studio monitors and a FireWire mixer and Logic. So...perhaps if I sell the Motif I can use some of that $$ to do the 700gx. I'd rather play it first. Yeah play it first, of course... and let me know what you think!I'm amazed at how many people loved the Expressive piano and how many people hated it... most people like the Ultimate and the Superb though, and so far everybody has agreed that the keybed is wonderful and inspiring...But you have always been a Yamaha guy, so I wonder what your opinion will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 But you have always been a Yamaha guy, so I wonder what your opinion will be. Yeah...well actually, a guy brought up playing accoustics, switched to Yamaha for its piano excellence, really liking the RD700SX, and seriously considering the RD700GX. When I get my hands on one, I'll be sure to give you some in-depth thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Olivier Jalet Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Hi, I was at the Musikmesse 2008 (Frankfurt, Germany) during March, not very far away from my home (France). 1) I wanted first of all a real 88 notes midi masterkeyboard.I have already a Yamaha KX88 but I wanted a "lighter" keyboard (25 kg vs 30 kg).2) I wanted just several sounds inside (with personnality if possible) in case of emergency : I have a laptop with Ivory from Synthogy but I already forgot a cable to switch it on...so...without any other sounds module...it's hard to play during a gig... I tried the Roland RD700GX : + The keybed was perfect except there is no aftertouch - I didn't fall in love with the sounds. I tried the Kurzweil PC3X with no sounds in the headphones...so I didn't really notice all the sounds inside but the live demo from Kurzweil was interesting. I tested the Yamaha S90ES too which is interesting but :- I wanted an other keybed since I already have my Yamaha KX88.- I found it too long. I tried the Clavia Nordstage 88 :+ It has a Fatar keybad which is not bad+ The weight is perfect : 18 kg+ The sounds are great- The price is too high for me (at least 2600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 When I get my hands on one, I'll be sure to give you some in-depth thoughts. a penny for your in-depth thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keyrick Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 So Rick - do you gig w/the PC3X and leave the S90ES at home? Interesting... wish I had that kind of disposable income (to be able to buy not one, but two different 88key machines) What kind of gigs do you do (rock, jazz, wedding band, etc...)? Oh & btw - the $100 rebate on the S90ES was over on 03.31.08 so I missed out on that, oh well... Gigman, Yes, I bought the S90ES a few years ago after a run of particularly good paying gigs. I wanted to try to get used to the Yammy action as well as have a decent synth in the studio. I was gigging with a PC2x at the time and it's lack of sequencer was no fun in the studio enviornment. But the Yammy did not cut it in a gigging situation relative to the Kurz, in several ways. I still like the Kurz Triple Strike Piano, in a live situation, better than any piano on the S90ES. It definatly has it's stregnths so it will not be leaving the studio. If I could just get used to the damn action! I ordered the PC3X in November of last year, before I played it at NAMM. My PC2X keybed was starting to need some repair, but after 5 years of gigging with it, I never had any problems. Initially, I thought the PC3x would just be an upgrade to the PC2x. It is much more than that. One of the Kurz reps at NAMM said, it really is a "K2700" without the sampling. At the time I said yeah, yeah, marketing bullshit! When it finally showed up in April with a beta operating system, I kind of thought maybe this guy was not lying after all. I have done one OS upgrade on it and might do another one this weekend if they release it as planned this week. It is not just an upgrade to the PC2x, It is a full on gigging keyboard with a bunch very usuable sounds right out of the box. The manual that came with it is pretty useless as they have not finished it yet. But I have been able to tweek the VAST programs without much trouble, it's editor and layout is very intuitive. My band play Classic Rock mostly and we do a lot of weddings. We play about twice a month, and none of us earn our living doing it, but those wedding gig paychecks help me buy stuff like an S90es for my studio! So, yeah I gig with it, but it may show up in the studio now and then. The orchestral sounds are phenomenal. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 To those, I would add - 'What can you do with it?' Looking at all 3 of those is the reason I went with a Kurzweil K2600 a few years ago. It's also the reason why I would probably go with a PC3X, if I were in that market today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 a penny for your in-depth thoughts In this economy? Pssh...you better make that $.76 and I take PayPal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 In this economy? Pssh...you better make that $.76 and I take PayPal. you better pick up the pace. I am sending the Roland Clan genius' 1/2 penny for their 'deep insights' ( or wandering conjecturisms) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mcpepe Posted May 23, 2008 Members Share Posted May 23, 2008 I am a new owner too, from this Tuesday!:-)I havent had the time to explore it deeply, but the initial impressions are very good. Acoustic pianos, elec. pianos, are very good.I had a Yamaha P90 and to me the keyboard fell of the PC3x seems very similar.I have not touched any real or virtual organ. To me, the KB3 mode in the PC3x sounds like a real thing. Its fun to play with the faders and switches. Far better than the Yamaha Motif i had a year ago.About the synths VA sounds i find them to sound very good. The problem is in fact the programming. It is not the same to program with the knobs of a dedicated synth than doing it with menus and screens.I have not touched the sequencer yet, but i am not really interested in it. Working with computer sequencers is now a lot easier...The onboard effects are very nice. Feel free to ask me what you want!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted May 23, 2008 Members Share Posted May 23, 2008 you better pick up the pace. I am sending the Roland Clan genius' 1/2 penny for their 'deep insights' ( or wandering conjecturisms) Got to play around with an RD700GX last night. The sound: I still find the piano very very dark, especially compared to the brightness to which I'm accustomed on my Motif. I must say, it muddied at the lower octaves and was barely audible at the higher ones. However, the piano was capable of lovely nuances which frequently surprised and inspired me to play. The onboard EQ was easily accessible and simple enough to use to make little tweaks on the fly. I liked EQUALLY the Expressive Grand and the Superior Grand. I know there's a little bit of a controversy over these two patches, and I enjoyed playing them both. Honestly, I'm not sure how well this piano would sit in an unmonitored mix. If there was no sound guy present to adjust levels, I fear the piano could easily get lost with the bass guitar and the bass and floor tom. It seemed to just "sit there". For solo recording or composing, however, the piano more than takes the cake. As far as the EPs go, they were a pleasant surprise. I don't know how "SUPERNATURAL" they were, but they held their own, in my opinon, to my favorite patches on the Motif. They were responsive and very playable. I didn't get far into the pads, strings, or organs...but from what I heard they sounded perfect. A tasteful amount of ROMpler stuff is a welcome addition to any stage piano. IT WAS SO EASY TO MAKE VERY COMPELLING LAYERS! I would just press a couple of buttons and I had a gorgeous piano and string sound. I couldn't help playing some Contemporary Christian music with them. A whole lot of fun. The Feel This is where I could justify buying this. It is, by far, the most tactile-pleasing (just made up that word) stage piano I have ever played. The coating on the keys made them very smooth without being slippery. My accuracy even in fast passages was awesome, considering it was not the touch I am used to. This thing feels like a real piano, or at least feels the closest to a real piano of anything I've played. The interface is very logical and easy to use. Coming from the Yamaha camp, this is a welcome adjustment. Who thought I could ever edit on the fly? The Verdict Now it's just time for some soul-searching and financial planning. If I bought this thing, I would have to buy a Motif Rack. There are just a few patches I CANNOT live without. Honestly, I would probably use the PowerGrand sample on the Motif just as much as any of the Grands on the Roland. The Roland would make an incredible master controller. The touch of it is what really sold me. To that end, I will wait for a while...probably for the first price reduction. I am more than happy with my Motif. There was nothing on the Roland that screamed I NEED TO HAVE THIS NOW! The keyboard feel will be a nice upgrade, and coupled with the ROM in the Motif Rack, I will have a wider piano pallet than ever before. That'll be $.76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted May 23, 2008 Members Share Posted May 23, 2008 My accuracy even in fast passages was awesome, considering it was not the touch I am used to. That's what she said. Glad you liked it Alex! You must buy one today. Do it. Do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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