Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Actually if I was to write a book it would be called "how to avoid being a fragile, apathetic, pushover of an artist" or perhaps "Hey Artfag! You're not worthless" or maybe just an "idiots guide to standing up for yourself as an artist." It's not about being an artfag though. Describing yourself an artist is closer to being an artfag than being some guy who likes to play guitar in a band for fun and doesn't mind if people listen to his music free of charge. It's not about having a worth or standing up for yourself either. For me, I enjoy playing in bands and doing the odd gig here and there. I'm not a professional musician, nor do I aspire to be. it's just that the most enjoyable gigs are the ones that aren't {censored}ing empty. You have a higher chance of people turning up to see your band if they've heard your stuff. I couldn't care less if I make money from either music sales or gigs - if we get enough to cover petrol costs and a couple of drinks each I'm happy. What's so bad about that? It's like you want people like me to start calling themselves artists and trying to make money from it, when all they really want to do is play a couple of local gigs and have some fun with their friends in a band. I'd feel like a {censored}ing tool running round town calling myself an artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Well I never have played a free show and I don't intend to anytime in the future. Why would anyone bother to pack up their gear and play a show for free? Do you need to be loved that bad? Someone playing for free = a need to be loved. SAL not playing for free = needs to be loved AND paid in addition to the loving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lucid origami Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 While I do feel creative in my musical endeavors I've never really considered myself an artist but rather a sonic barista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Why would anyone bother to pack up their gear and play a show for free? That's like asking why would anyone ever go and ride their bike without getting paid for it. Playing gigs is fun, I'll happily play a free gig just for the {censored} of it because I know I'll enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Well I never have played a free show and I don't intend to anytime in the future. Why would anyone bother to pack up their gear and play a show for free? Do you need to be loved that bad?Well, most people need to be loved pretty badly. That aside though, I've always thought of playing music as a communicative endeavor, rather than a platform on which to receive attention. I mean, when you play at a rec center for a bunch of kids who don't really have much (or any) money to give you, I don't feel like you're doing it for their adoration, unless you have some serious psychological issues. Sometimes it's nice to share your art regardless (or despite hahah) what the experience does to your ego..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members six acre lake Posted October 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 There is no shortage of {censored}ty art but who is to say it should be free because you deem it {censored}ty art in a Toronto dinner... Just keep on keeping on. But when you hear / see something you like you buy it. Why would you expect it to be free? Also why would you even download it if you don't like it? The whole I'll buy it later things is so mother {censored}ing fraudulent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members renula Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Well I never have played a free show and I don't intend to anytime in the future. Why would anyone bother to pack up their gear and play a show for free? Do you need to be loved that bad? I'm not talking making big money either. Whether it's a house party with a Modest beer keg / band cover of a few bucks or a proper venue with a cut from the door etc... i never... you stated that before. Some of the things you say have their merits, but most of your comebacks have this arrogant attitude... Read "our band could be your life". And finally, I have been playing for a long time (12 years+), and I have been paid, got a cut from the door, have played for an open bar, etc. Sometimes we can lose ourselves in the whole business/art thing), and lose the love of art/music whatever. Enjoy it once in a while. You seem uptight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 That's like asking why would anyone ever go and ride their bike without getting paid for it. Playing gigs is fun, I'll happily play a free gig just for the {censored} of it because I know I'll enjoy it. Think of any amateur level sport. Your average guy pays his yearly subscription to join a football team. he trains for it, spends money on gear, goes out on a Sunday afternoon to play in front of ten people, and he pays for the privilege. He does it for the love of the game, the camaraderie within the team, the chance to achieve something that means something to him. Music is no different. One of the nice things about Bath in the summer is the park bandstand, where local bands come and play. They don't get paid. Most of them are quite old and they look so damn happy doing it. According to SAL though, they are idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 blame this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Also why would you even download it if you don't like it? haven't you ever bought a record by a band you've heard good things about, only to listen to it and find out it's a load of crap? Would you keep that {censored}ty record, or would you return it to the shop for a refund/exchange? I'd return it, but that's me. I've done that lots of times in the past before downloading music was so easy. No instead, I just download it - then delete it if it's crap, or buy it if it's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members renula Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Think of any amateur level sport. Your average guy pays his yearly subscription to join a football team. he trains for it, spends money on gear, goes out on a Sunday afternoon to play in front of ten people, and he pays for the privilege. He does it for the love of the game, the camaraderie within the team, the chance to achieve something that means something to him. Music is no different. One of the nice things about Bath in the summer is the park bandstand, where local bands come and play. They don't get paid. Most of them are quite old and they look so damn happy doing it. You nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members renula Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 blame this guy /end of thread.:lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Think of any amateur level sport. Your average guy pays his yearly subscription to join a football team. he trains for it, spends money on gear, goes out on a Sunday afternoon to play in front of ten people, and he pays for the privilege. He does it for the love of the game, the camaraderie within the team, the chance to achieve something that means something to him. Music is no different. One of the nice things about Bath in the summer is the park bandstand, where local bands come and play. They don't get paid. Most of them are quite old and they look so damn happy doing it. According to SAL though, they are idiots. Yeah it's basically the same thing, people just seem to get more uptight about this kind of thing because we're talking 'art' or whatever. It's {censored}ing pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members six acre lake Posted October 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 I'm not uptight. I'm full of passion. Passion for the arts and artists. Without a huge diatribe... I am in a Union. United Scenic Artists Local 829. I believe in Unions. I believe in organized labor. I pains me to see my many artist friends both musicians and painters /sculptors, graphic designers etc struggle and get taken advantage of because there is no collective mindset of value and the next fragile, clueless, fresh out of art school kid will do it for less just because he is "happy to be working" People need to understand that real artistic talent is not free and not everyone can do it. It's not something you can just pick up on a weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 That dolphin looks heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 There is no shortage of {censored}ty art but who is to say it should be free because you deem it {censored}ty art in a Toronto dinner... Just keep on keeping on. But when you hear / see something you like you buy it. Why would you expect it to be free? Also why would you even download it if you don't like it? The whole I'll buy it later things is so mother {censored}ing fraudulent. Woah, your argument is breaking up. Who ever said I thought the {censored}ty art should be free? What I was getting at was that the {censored}ty artist decides on a value to their particular art. There's no justification of that value on the valuation ticket in most cases. If that artist wrote a small piece saying how it had cost $50 in materials and so he went for a $100 price tag in order to help feed himself, I'd respect that. In my case, I've probably been around too many wanky artists with ludicrously high opinions of how fantastic their art was and equally ludicrous price tags to their art. The whole thing comes down to the question I asked you: Do you believe all art has a value to it, no matter how fatuous and bad it may be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members six acre lake Posted October 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 haven't you ever bought a record by a band you've heard good things about, only to listen to it and find out it's a load of crap? Would you keep that {censored}ty record, or would you return it to the shop for a refund/exchange?I'd return it, but that's me. I've done that lots of times in the past before downloading music was so easy. No instead, I just download it - then delete it if it's crap, or buy it if it's good. I have bought tons of {censored}ty music in my day based on labels, recommendations etc but that doesn't stop me from continuing to buy more music. I detailed earlier in this thread my practices. I listen to the music in the store on the turntables first or I preview the tracks online. This process leads to a huge success rate in good music purchases... Sure every record isn't a Fugazi masterpiece but still worth my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 I'm not uptight. I'm full of passion. Passion for the arts and artists. Without a huge diatribe...I am in a Union. United Scenic Artists Local 829. I believe in Unions. I believe in organized labor. I pains me to see my many artist friends both musicians and painters /sculptors, graphic designers etc struggle and get taken advantage of because there is no collective mindset of value and the next fragile, clueless, fresh out of art school kid will do it for less just because he is "happy to be working" People need to understand that real artistic talent is not free and not everyone can do it. It's not something you can just pick up on a weekend. Equally, real sporting talent is not free and not everyone can do it. If you're serious about a sport, you don't just pick it up and run with it at a weekend. If a good amateur sportsman started saying that he wouldn't play football for free any longer, he'd be laughed at in many cases for being an egotistical prick. I do get your point about the local union guys struggling because of the 'fresh meat' coming out of university who are happy to be exploited. I've long felt that most mainstream universities are a method of providing drones to be exploited for cheap which eventually harms those with real talent and skills because they're always going to be undercut financially by the drones. (by mainstream uni, I mean those outside of the true top bracket. Top bracket means Oxford, Cambridge etc over here, the elite places). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 I have bought tons of {censored}ty music in my day based on labels, recommendations etc but that doesn't stop me from continuing to buy more music. I detailed earlier in this thread my practices. I listen to the music in the store on the turntables first or I preview the tracks online. This process leads to a huge success rate in good music purchases... Sure every record isn't a Fugazi masterpiece but still worth my money. What about in stores that don't give you access to listen to it on the turntables first? Over here, the only stores I know of that have turntables to listen to stuff on are hiphop/DnB/Breakbeat type record stores. And isn't your listening on the turntable before buying the record exactly the same as me downloading it to listen first before I buy it? Same exact thing, without going down to a shop near me (that doesn't exist) where I can play the music before I buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members renula Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members six acre lake Posted October 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 The whole thing comes down to the question I asked you: Do you believe all art has a value to it, no matter how fatuous and bad it may be? Yes all art has a value. I understand your markup argument but thats not my point and I'm not expecting people to pay 10 dollars for one song. I believe a dollar a track is fair. It's the cost of a {censored}ing can of soda for {censored}s sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aplaneinphases Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 I like buying albums i like but i don't understand why it's a big deal if people give it away for free exclusively? Worth means different things to different people. People play/create music for different reasons. Some play to earn money, some for the love of it while money comes in second, some for fame, etc. It's up to the artist to decide how their art's worth is decided, imo. Giving it away for free may make it monetarily "worthless" but saying it is worthless in every way makes little sense logically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 What about in stores that don't give you access to listen to it on the turntables first? Over here, the only stores I know of that have turntables to listen to stuff on are hiphop/DnB/Breakbeat type record stores.And isn't your listening on the turntable before buying the record exactly the same as me downloading it to listen first before I buy it? Same exact thing, without going down to a shop near me (that doesn't exist) where I can play the music before I buy it. Uh-huh. 15 years ago, there were three indie guitar orientated record shops in Bath plus a couple of dance shops. Now there's no indie record shops. One dance shop and HMV, who have moved all the albums upstairs because Blu-Ray/DVDs are where any money is. If I want to preview an album and spend some time listening to it before buying, I do download it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members big_cat Posted October 7, 2010 Members Share Posted October 7, 2010 why has no one addressed the fact that the ratio of musician-to-listener has drastically changed? the doctor comparison might be valid if there were 3 doctors for every 1 patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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