Members kooki_sf Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 The article is idiocy because it claims that because something has been done illegally for centuries, it should become legal. That's about the worst argument I've ever, ever heard. did you ever study the prohibition era in school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Swami Digital Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 He just picked her so he'd have a chance vs. Obama and Biden in 2 on 2.http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-33-247/Hoopers-in-the-House.html -D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlantsberger Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 It certainly does not mean "parasite". I see what you did there. But by definition, it is. From Mariam-Webster: 2 : an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism 3 : something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitepapagold Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 It's not your body. It's the baby's. You're just trying to get rid of someone you don't want in your life by killing them.Im 100% pro choice but ONLY because its the parents decision what they want to do- kill someone or not. I personally do NOT believe in abortion but I have also never been raped and wasn't born to an ignorant society where birth control is taboo. Since its a grey area and more importantly, a HUGE committment- I would rather have dead babies than a world full of unwanted children.Those who say its not murder are just stupid. Period. And say whatever they can to make it feel ok... BUT once the sperm hits the egg, its life people. Whether developed or not- its life. Symbiotic relationships DO NOT invalidate an individual... Look all over nature.And any Christian who believes in abortion or capital punishment is a hypocrite and a fool. Talk about personal validation... The 10 commandments aren't guidelines- theres no way around that. But the people who want to argue WHICH month after procreation is the "its a life" month are just bending reality to suit their needs. Kill a baby if you need to and its yours but call it what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 I see what you did there. But by definition, it is. From Mariam-Webster:2 : an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism 3 : something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return I'm talking about the original greek word, not how it's used in the US. Why don't you take a greek dictionary and look it up. By the way, Merriam-Webster has a different definition. I bet you just made that one up! fetus Main Entry: fe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 Before this devolves into an abortion debate. It's not your body. It's the baby's. You're just trying to get rid of someone you don't want in your life by killing them. I agree with you. It is not about a woman's control over her body, and abortion is almost always due to an unexpected pregnancy, which I think is generally a poor reason to abort. However, if Roe v Wade were going to be struck down it would have happened by now. The right to choose for women (right or wrong -and I'm on the fence on this) is not going to go away. It's time for Pro-lifers to change their strategy to reflect reality on this issue and work to ensure abortions are simply less frequent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 Obama supporters "OMFG, LOLLLLS, Looks, McBush hired a LADY to try to get Hillary's voters!" McCain supporters "Wow, CNN sure knows how to manufacture sheep, don't they." The fact is, people already know who they intend to support, and these decisions really influence few people, one way or the other. You're going to forgive "your" candidate for some decisions, and only people voting strictly on race or sex are going to be swayed from their usual positions by the novelties available this election year. So, every decision Obama makes is an ignorant one in the eyes of Conservatives, and every decision McCain makes "hands Obama the presidency" in the eyes of Liberals, and no amount of sabre rattling on an online forum is going to change that anytime soon. What we need to realize, is that a lot of what we "know" is in fact, opinion. Unfortunately, it's usually not even our opinion, but someone else's. Someone who we thought we should listen to. Keeping this in mind, maybe it's time we quit telling others that their belief structure is "mythology", which only serves to offend those who believe, and make those who don't look mean for having said it...And saying things like "abortion is a gender issue". It is, for those who support it, believing they support "women's rights". Yet it is not - for those who oppose it, believing they support everyone's rights, including those of the future women who are potentially being aborted. There are two sides to every issue, and no matter how passionately and assuredly you believe what you believe, there is still the possibility that someone, somewhere, has been feeding you a bunch of fertilizer, and you have mistaken it for the truth. With that in mind, PLEASE, let's try to respect one another, and on another's right to believe whatever we want to believe, and state our opinions with some courtesy and demeanor. Otherwise, we all just make ourselves look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjdugan3 Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 "Those who say its not murder are just stupid. Period. And say whatever they can to make it feel ok... BUT once the sperm hits the egg, its life people. Whether developed or not- its life. Symbiotic relationships DO NOT invalidate an individual... Look all over nature" I had a great conversation about determinism with a zygote once.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 Fetus is a greek word that means infant or child. It certainly does not mean "parasite". so were to base all of this on the etymological roots of the word? not. rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlantsberger Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 Adoption? So, in your point of view, if someone is invalid and can't tend to themselves, should they be killed also? Well, no because they've been born and I don't believe that a first trimester fetus is a person, so I'm ok with a woman removing the fetus.But the reason I ask is because most conservatives who oppose abortion also oppose social welfare. Do you have any idea what the adoption system is like? It's not like Juno, most kids that get put up for adotion end up in foster-care - an overloaded system in which children are routinely (though not by any means always, much respect to good foster parents) abused or constantly shifted from family to family, all the while being looked after by overworked case workers (who have way too many kids to handle as a result of not having enough public funding) resulting in a very unstable childhood. This childhood has all kinds of potential to lead to a maladjusted adult who is much more likely to lead a life of crime, end up on welfare, become addicted to drugs, etc.Anyway, I'm off of work, have a great weekend. EDIT: Also, CS, that was the definition of parasite, not fetus. Sorry for being unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjdugan3 Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 "etymological",btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 However, if Roe v Wade were going to be struck down it would have happened by now. The right to choose for women (right or wrong -and I'm on the fence on this) is not going to go away. It's time for Pro-lifers to change their strategy to reflect reality on this issue and work to abortions are simply less frequent. You cannot change morality to adapt to circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 These are some of my divergent thoughts on abortion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 By the way, Merriam-Webster has a different definition. I bet you just made that one up! check out oxfords definition, an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conceptionorigin late middle english, from latin "pregnancy, childbirth, offspring" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 why is a sperm not a human being? Go look up a science book. so were to base all of this on the entomological roots of the word? not. rational. No, I"m not basing it on that, I'm just offering it as supporting argumentation. People want to make it seem like abortion has always been seen as ok, when an unborn baby has pretty much always been seen as a human being.The base of my argumentation is the fact that an unborn baby is a human being. A defenseless one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tuba Four Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 FWIW, I am 100% against abortion. I experienced abortion with my girlfriend having an abortion when I was in my teens. I didn't know what I was doing and the adults around me told me it was OK. Today, I would be appalled at the idea, and I completely regret my choice. Can't tell you how much. Keeping that child would have been very difficult, but difficulty and inconvenience cannot be the basis for making life and death decisions. Today, the bottom line for me is that I never heard an argument for abortion that makes any sense. Clearly, life begins at conception. Just think about it for a while and it will be obvious. A sperm or an egg (left to their own devices) cannot make a human, and neither can any of the million of other cells that we have throughout our bodies. When I peel off some skin off my nose, I am not committing murder, and neither am I when I use a birth control, etc. But, in any case, if one doesn't know when life begins, wouldn't you want to be safe and not allow abortions until you knew or could determine when life begins???? The position that some hold that abortion is immoral, but we'll leave it up to the individual to decide what to do with a helpless child cannot be reconciled with reason, or the basis for our laws. The only argument left for the pro choice people is to argue that abortion is either moral or a-moral. I have never heard a single argument for that position. aL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 You cannot change morality to adapt to circumstances. really? I thought that was the scientific method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 note: now that I read about her I understand the her conservative stance, but is the conservative vote interested in a woman VP? I suppose there are conservatives and there are conservatives; I'm sure that guys like Mark Driscoll wouldn't accept a female VP when she could be home serving her husband, but there's more to US conservatives than these cavemen of the Christian Era. Ultimately, the liberal vote wasn't interested in a woman president, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 The position that some hold that abortion is immoral, but we'll leave it up to the individual to decide what to do with a helpless child cannot be reconciled with reason, or the basis for our laws. I take a more society-oriented view myself. I would suggest that people read up on the history of abortion, and why it was legalized (even before the Supreme Court decision, the nation was moving in that direction). It's not entirely a rosy one. I would make the suggestion that anti-abortion activists who do not believe in a strong safety net (there are many) are taking a pretty immoral view in itself. Roe vs. Wade was probably a mistake in many ways, though, it did not allow states to taylor abortion to their culture. It was too much of a shock. Europe had it right to regulate abortion through the legislature, it's really not a big issue over there as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syncretism Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 Uh, yeah. I would take this "ethics challenge" over plagiarizing student papers and British politicians, or saying "I'm smarter'n yewwwww" any day.Fixed that one for you, Sizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moondad Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 FWIW, I am 100% against abortion. So, if a woman is pregnant as a result of rape, then she should be forced by the state to carry that pregnancy full-term, purely because some other people think that a child's potential existence is more important than any other possible concern? F*** that. What if the parents happen to carry a chromosomal or genetic abnormality that can result in a child being unlikely to make it full-term, let alone live beyond a few weeks? This is a very real prospect for many parents, leaving them with a very difficult choice to make in early pregnancy, should they brave the notion of having a family at all. Having some pseudo-moralistic tossers waving banners at them while they make that choice, really pisses me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 Having some pseudo-moralistic tossers waving banners at them while they make that choice, really pisses me off. You have to admit that it's pretty courageous if they actually do stick to their guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tuba Four Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 I take a more society-oriented view myself. I would suggest that people read up on the history of abortion, and why it was legalized (even before the Supreme Court decision, the nation was moving in that direction). It's not entirely a rosy one. I would make the suggestion that anti-abortion activists who do not believe in a strong safety net (there are many) are taking a pretty immoral view in itself.Roe vs. Wade was probably a mistake in many ways, though, it did not allow states to taylor abortion to their culture. It was too much of a shock. Europe had it right to regulate abortion through the legislature, it's really not a big issue over there as a result. To me, abortion is immoral, regardless of the source of the "right". In other words, we have legalized abortion as a result of an activist supreme court that read into the constitution a right of privacy that is not spelled out in the constitution. Europe got it via legislation. Both are immoral as far as I am concerned. You are right that those who would not advocate a strong safety net (presumably you mean services that cater to taking care of "unwanted children", pregnant teens, etc.) are immoral, but, to a lesser degree. To me, there's no comparison between death and potential misery. Sure, misery isn't good or "fun" but death is not a sentence we can impose lightly or for convenience either!!! aL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 "Absolutely, Ron George should be thrown out for voting for gay marriage," said Mike Spence, president of the conservative California Republican Assembly.In my state I'm pretty sure the conservatives hate gays. See, you miss the point. Yeah, there are a lot of Conservatives who oppose gay marriage, and gay rights beyond anything non-gay people receive. However, most Conservatives don't care IF you're gay - it's not their business. What they think IS their business is when gays, or any "special interest group" tries to implement social change to accommodate the small, special interest group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted August 29, 2008 Members Share Posted August 29, 2008 so were to base all of this on the etymological roots of the word? not. rational. My thoughts exactly. Didn't ancient Greek men also have relations with teenage boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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