Members Envergure Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 I'm just trying to figure out my Dad's JX-3P here. It has three ways the two oscilators can interact: Mix, hard sync and metal sync. I know how hard sync works, but an explanation of "metal sync" eludes me. I'm told it's some kind of cross between hard sync and RM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members llamastorm Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Maybe it's just more metal. Like with umlauts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Ring Modulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marmorek Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Maybe it's just more metal. Like with umlauts. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AfroRouge Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Ring mod is a good answer. I was thinking maybe some kind of FM, but that would just be too strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Ring Modulation Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulation You've got an extra 'http:" in your link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Sorry, had to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulation You've got an extra 'http:" in your link. Thanks for the correction. I edited the original link to fix it. Ring mod sounds metallic, so some synths designers think it's less confusing to say metallic rather than ring mod, but they end up adding more confusion than they solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members calyx93 Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 It's not ring modulation, but cross modulation - included on many of Roland's synths. Not exactly the same as ring mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 It's not ring modulation, but cross modulation - included on many of Roland's synths. Not exactly the same as ring mod. No, it's ring modulation. From page 22 of the JX-3P Owners Manual: "Metal: By controlling the DCO-1 with the output signal from the DCO-2, ring modulation style sound can be obtained". Straight cross modulation is done with the "Sync" setting, a different value. It's called metal because ring modulation sounds metallic due to non-harmonic overtones. There is no other reason. Ring modulation can be viewed as a specialized form of cross modulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members llamastorm Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted September 18, 2008 Members Share Posted September 18, 2008 I just won a JX-3P cheap that has problems. I'm hoping it's just a "take it apart and clean it and put it back together" thingy with dirty contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THE_baldrick Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 No, it's ring modulation.From page 22 of the JX-3P Owners Manual:"Metal: By controlling the DCO-1 with the output signal from the DCO-2, ring modulation style sound can be obtained".Straight cross modulation is done with the "Sync" setting, a different value.It's called metal because ring modulation sounds metallic due to non-harmonic overtones. There is no other reason. Ring modulation can be viewed as a specialized form of cross modulation. Yeah, but sync isn't cross modulation, it's sync (whatever Roland may call it). Cross modulation is usually FM, which can sound like ring mod. Both can sound metallic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 Yeah, but sync isn't cross modulation, it's sync (whatever Roland may call it).Cross modulation is usually FM, which can sound like ring mod. Both can sound metallic. Why do you think that Sync isn't cross modulation? It's the synchronization of one signal using another. Cross modulation isn't only, or mostly FM. Cross modulation is whenever two signals are corelated in a non linear way, and in the case of synthesizers, done intentionally to produce specific effects. Sync is one effect. Ring mod is another. FM is another. All are cross modulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LWG Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 Hello, The way Roland set up the legending on the panel, it gives the impression that hard sync is a form of cross mod, but I believe that the sync position is simply hard sync, and the last (termed "metal") is fm via dco 2 to dco 1.One giveaway, is that with ring mod, it requires an additional feed into the mixer. On synths that have ring mod, the mixer will have a level ctrl for the oscillators, and a separate one for the ring mod's output.Another way of testing this is to see if the clang tones only work with the square waves. Generally, polysynths that have ring mod, use a digital one made with gates and a tran. You can tell operationally because, they won't work with the sawtooth waves. If you have the "metal" function engaged, and it works with the saw waves, its probably fm. Regards, Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 There is no cross modulation with the JX-3P because it has DCOs. All what you can do is sync and ring modulation or AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kpatz Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 Sync != cross-modulation.Cross-modulation != ring-modulation. Sync is where one oscillator is synchronized to the other.Cross-modulation is where the frequency of one oscillator is controlled by the other (FM)Ring modulation is where the two oscillators are combined in a way such that the result is the oscillators amplitude-modulate (AM) one another. When I had a JX-8P it had sync and "xmod", but I think the cross mod was really a ring mod, since FM type cross mod isn't easily done on 80s technology DCOs. The Jupiter series, on the other hand, has VCOs and has "real" cross modulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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