Members driverhasabomb Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 On one hand it's great for the workers making $33 an hour to do low skill level jobs but on the other hand that kind of {censored} just can't be sustained forever unless the business can support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 We already function democratically as a function of company culture. My staff choose the work they do, the hours that they keep and negotiate openly their compensation for their achievements. I steer but have no interest in being an absolute dictator. Sounds lovely. Doesn't really state how you feel about your business shutting down while workers strike for higher pay. Or going through a recession and not being able to LOWER wages. Or dealing with grievances because you gave someone 4 warnings about something instead of 5. Or FLAT pay across your builders which makes Erskin realize he can be just as lazy as whatthe{censored}shisname and still earn the same! I know CB is utopian. But for the real world, these are serious issues, and unions act like they don't have to give an inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members driverhasabomb Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 We already function democratically as a function of company culture. My staff choose the work they do, the hours that they keep and negotiate openly their compensation for their achievements. I steer but have no interest in being an absolute dictator. And if they try to negotiate compensation that you can't possibly sustain over a number of years what happens? In your case you probably just tell them "nope" and that's the end of it. It wouldn't be so easy with a union calling the shots. I have no problem with unions but, unsurprisingly, they don't always make the most sustainable decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 On one hand it's great for the workers making $33 an hour to do low skill level jobs but on the other hand that kind of {censored} just can't be sustained forever unless the business can support it. Demand for goods and services come from the ground up. No business person will create a job making a widget if there is nobody to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 And if they try to negotiate compensation that you can't possibly sustain over a number of years what happens? In your case you probably just tell them "nope" and that's the end of it. It wouldn't be so easy with a union calling the shots. I have no problem with unions but, unsurprisingly, they don't always make the most sustainable decisions. Unions are simply an attempt at representative democracy in the workplace. If a large body of people is apathetic about their union leadership they get a crappy ineffectual union, same with citizens involvement in government. I still won't blame the concept of the union without giving 90% of the blame on membership apathy, again same thing with citizens involvement in government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 Sounds lovely. Doesn't really state how you feel about your business shutting down while workers strike for higher pay. Or going through a recession and not being able to LOWER wages. Or dealing with grievances because you gave someone 4 warnings about something instead of 5. Or FLAT pay across your builders which makes Erskin realize he can be just as lazy as whatthe{censored}shisname and still earn the same!I know CB is utopian. But for the real world, these are serious issues, and unions act like they don't have to give an inch. I never said CB is utopian. I don't appreciate your mockery. But I am actually runing a biz, in line with ideals, in the real world. I doubt my staff will strike, ever. If it weren't for the staff, we wouldn't ship anything or have any cashflow. I won't ever blame wages for business problems... It is interesting that companies who afford to pay their execs multiple millions are the ones who complain most about this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 I never said CB is utopian. I don't appreciate your mockery. But I am actually runing a biz, in line with ideals, in the real world. I doubt my staff will strike, ever. If it weren't for the staff, we wouldn't ship anything or have any cashflow. I won't ever blame wages for business problems... It is interesting that companies who afford to pay their execs multiple millions are the ones who complain most about this though. WELL FINE, I take back my mockery. But I'm being serious, I've worked a union job, it was awful. Not once did I ever feel the union was doing anything for me. No one I ever talked to felt that way. We all felt like we were being held back. Hard work got us no where, seniority was everything. I have friends who have taken 20% paycuts in the recession. My mother included (she's my friend). They lost benefits. They lost retirement matching. Yet California teachers act like a 1% pay cut or a possible PAY FREEZE is the end of the {censored}ing world? Its too much power. And thats all it comes down to. Power. Like I said, they won't give an inch, and its a strangle hold on business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 Where I see this conversation going: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 WELL FINE, I take back my mockery. But I'm being serious, I've worked a union job, it was awful. Not once did I ever feel the union was doing anything for me. No one I ever talked to felt that way. We all felt like we were being held back. Hard work got us no where, seniority was everything. I have friends who have taken 20% paycuts in the recession. My mother included (she's my friend). They lost benefits. They lost retirement matching. Yet California teachers act like a 1% pay cut or a possible PAY FREEZE is the end of the {censored}ing world? Its too much power. And thats all it comes down to. Power. Like I said, they won't give an inch, and its a strangle hold on business. Why on earth should working people be expected carry the burden of the recession when the folks at the top aren't so much as shaving a few feet off of the yacht they plan to order? I also worked for a union shop. I did not like it. I also did nothing to change it. I appreciate your mockery take back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 Why on earth should working people be expected carry the burden of the recession when the folks at the top aren't so much as shaving a few feet off of the yacht they plan to order? I also worked for a union shop. I did not like it. I also did nothing to change it. I appreciate your mockery take back! They shouldn't. But if you're not a job creator or a risk taker, I'm sorry you don't get to keep everything when {censored} goes bad. And {censored} the folks at the top too! I'm sick of corporatism and cronyism just as much as I am of unions. Anyway, I'm going on vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tattoedsailor Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 I love all this anti-union talk. You people think that there was a "time and place for it". I got news for yeah folks were heading there again. Its race to bottom. Middle class incomes have been in decline since mid 70's and so as unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 They shouldn't. But if you're not a job creator or a risk taker, I'm sorry you don't get to keep everything when {censored} goes bad. And {censored} the folks at the top too! I'm sick of corporatism and cronyism just as much as I am of unions. Anyway, I'm going on vacation. I am not a job creator... The working folks who buy the pedals that we make are the job creators. I wouldn't go out and hire a person if there weren't demand. What real business would? Yes there is a lot of risk in being a business owner and entrepreneur, if the rewards didn't outweigh these I wouldn't do it. For me the rewards are working with a team of creative and talented people as well as having the ability to be autonomous in what I work on, or if I decide to just go golfing on a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tattoedsailor Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 I am not a job creator... The working folks who buy the pedals that we make are the job creators. I wouldn't go out and hire a person if there weren't demand. What real business would?Yes there is a lot of risk in being a business owner and entrepreneur, if the rewards didn't outweigh these I wouldn't do it. For me the rewards are working with a team of creative and talented people as well as having the ability to be autonomous in what I work on, or if I decide to just go golfing on a nice day. Well said! And there isn't going be any demand if people are not making a decent livable wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members big_cat Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 All you guys who pray to the god of privatization must not interact with massive telecoms or health insurance monopolies on a regular basis. Verizon and Blue Shield are just as much of a nightmare bureaucracy as any {censored} ass government agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tattoedsailor Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 All you guys who pray to the god of privatization must not interact with massive telecoms or health insurance monopolies on a regular basis. Verizon and Blue Shield are just as much of a nightmare bureaucracy as any {censored} ass government agency. I hear yeah man. My wife is going in for surgery next week. Aetna has been pain in ass. Best health care I ever had was when I was in military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solly Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 I always thought that the USPS has it a little bit backward. They charge me if i come get my mail from them (a PO Box), but they will deliver it to my door for free. They might save some money if they did it the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 They don't send it to your door for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solly Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 They don't send it to your door for free I said they deliver it to me for free, not send it to me for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hivedestruction Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 I always thought that the USPS has it a little bit backward. They charge me if i come get my mail from them (a PO Box), but they will deliver it to my door for free. They might save some money if they did it the other way around. haha Oh man.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 They don't deliver it to you for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solly Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 They don't deliver it to you for free. Well I havent gotten a bill yet so explain it to me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 seriously? You see that little stamp in the top corner? Yeah someone paid money for that, and that's how it got to your door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hivedestruction Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 There's no {censored}ing way he's serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solly Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 seriously? You see that little stamp in the top corner? Yeah someone paid money for that, and that's how it got to your door. lol, yes i get that. I obviously didnt make my point well at all. What I meant was there is an added labor cost for the USPS to deliver it to my door, yet it would cost me money if i rented a PO Box from them and went to them to get it. It just seems a bit backward to me is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members erksin Posted September 8, 2011 Members Share Posted September 8, 2011 seriously? You see that little stamp in the top corner? Yeah someone paid money for that, and that's how it got to your door. You're misunderstanding him.He's talking about having to pay for a PO Box (at least thats how I was reading it) to pick it up on premises, but the USPS will deliver it to your door for free. I realize somebody paid for a stamp to send it, but he technically didn't pay anything to receive it at home unlike having to pay a box rental at the PO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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