Boss AC3?

[thom]

I'm about to start a Smiths Tribute band, started a similar thread a while back when the plans were still verry vague, so I'll try to cut it short this time:

 

What's the consesus on pedals like the Boss AC3, for when you really don't need a full blown acoustic? It'd just be for 5 songs or so, and I can't/won't spend serious money on a decent acoustic. I like my Baby Taylor a lot, but even if I had a pickup installed in there, I doubt it'd be remotely suited for that Smiths sounds...

 

Better just play everything electric? Or are there any other acoustic simulators out there that are maybe better for the money?

 

Flame away boys, I know The Smiths attract a lot of haters:snax:

[Urinate Forever]

If you like the way it sounds, I say go for it. I thought it always sounded like a successful attempt at reproducing an acoustic guitar but I never wanted that from my electric guitar so I never got one.

 

Although, you may want to try a compressor. I think the janglebox sounds really nice on youtube, super compressed and big sounding. Try a CS-3 or similar if you don't want to spend a ton of money.

[hotmess]

You're not right in the head.

[thom]

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of digital modeling in general, and spending good money on something that replaces an acoustic guitar instead of spending in on another nice fuzz pedlulz...Feels like cheating on my girlfriend with a relative...Or something:)

 

But for this occasion I can't help but think it's the perfect solution. It'd just be for a series of small bar gigs. No hassle with extra guitar changes, no feedbuck issues, etc...

 

It would've been cool to have a (semi)hollow body though, seems like that airy open tone would work great for smiths songs.

 

Anyway, I'll check some AC3 clips and try to score a used one that I can flip after this whole project is through...

[southpaw pete]

Yeah, the AC-3 was a pedal I really wanted to like.

I bought one, didn't use it, sold it, a year later bought another... and sold it.

 

I really like my acoustic tone (big beautiful jumbo Guild JF30), and don't expect to get that tone out of my electric and a pedal. Surprisingly, the tones of the pedal were not my big problem. Some of the emulated sounds were actually somewhat decent, and I liked the reverb as well.

But I had two main issues with it:

 

Hiss. The thing was just so noisy. All settings except the "piezo" setting. I think they were going for the "air" of a nice mic'd acoustic - but it really just sounded like hiss to me. They say it is best to run it through a full range amp like a PA or acoustic amp (though they have an output for plugging into your electric amp) - which makes sense, except that only amplifies the hiss more.

 

And it seems like it clips really easily. for finger picking and light strumming it handles nicely, but if you strum more like an acoustic it clips and distorts.

 

I like the idea of an acoustic simulator, and if there were a way to fix those issues, or if Boss creates a new version, I'd try it again. Some people manage fine with the AC-3, and you can give it a shot if you like. But these are my experiences with it.

[wiklund87]

I've been in a Smiths tribute band:)

played everything electric though...added an extra guitarist for the strumming parts and I did all the leads

 

please keep in mind that you need an acoustic amp for the AC-3 to sound decent.. so many people don't get that

[ambient]

Yea if your gonna do it, get a di to send that {censored} straight to foh.

 

Though, IMO, the best way to get 'acoustic' tones is with a piezo pup.

[thom]

 

I've been in a Smiths tribute band:) played everything electric though...added an extra guitarist for the strumming parts and I did all the leads please keep in mind that you need an acoustic amp for the AC-3 to sound decent.. so many people don't get that

 

 

I might have to pm you somtime for advice/tips. To be honest, Johnny Marr's style isn't verry similar to mine, and I'm obviously not half the guitarist he is. It'll take a lot of practice and effort to come even close to playing his stuff good enough to sound somewhat convincing...

 

I've decided not to get an AC-3. I was never really sure of the idea, and all the complaints about hiss made me want to try a pickup in my Taylor anyway. Can't cost me a lot more than an AC-3, and I'll probabaly have more fun with it in the long run. The small boxy sounding 3/4 Taylor probably won't come close to a nice full acousting tone, but I guess it's worth a shot. It'd just be for a couple songs, so maybe it'll be fine.

[macadood]

^ good call. that should be much better. you can try getting a little transducer pickup for like 18 bucks on ebay. i picked up one made by Tyler Mountain on ebay for that much recently for my Uke and it works pretty damn well i must say. for the price its well worth a shot.

[wiklund87]

Most of his smiths stuff ain't really that hard to play. If it feels akward, then maybe you're playing it wrong. I've seen some funny tabs online that's for sure.

 

btw here's a picture of my old smiths board(the micro pog was there just for fun):

http://tinypic.com/r/2mdnbxc/7

 

I've moved on big time since then, and none of these are on my board these days, cause I needed a change.

Feel free to ask me, I won't say no, how could I:)

[Bradino]

id just spend the money on the real deal. put a pickup in the baby taylor. a buddy of mine just dropped one in his and it sounds really really good. if/when the tribute is done you still have an acoustic you can use. if not you have an ac-3 that you don't do much with. just my take tho

[thom]

 

Most of his smiths stuff ain't really that hard to play. If it feels akward, then maybe you're playing it wrong. I've seen some funny tabs online that's for sure. btw here's a picture of my old smiths board(the micro pog was there just for fun): http://tinypic.com/r/2mdnbxc/7 I've moved on big time since then, and none of these are on my board these days, cause I needed a change. Feel free to ask me, I won't say no, how could I:)

 

 

Myeah, I've had a lot of trouble learning songs using online tabs that turned out to be verry verry verry incorrect. In case you still have a tab collection or know where to find reliable ones...I'd really appreciate the help:)

 

So in terms of pedals, what's the essetials would you say? I figured a Rat2, a Boss CE-2, plus my AC30's drive, tremelo and reverb would get me a long way. I've also got a couple of delay/reverb peds to choose from, and an EQD tremelo that might come in usefull. Missing anything important? Cheers.

[n!k]

This works for bass, I'm not sure if there's a similar product for guitar, but can you get piezo pickups pre-mounted in a new bridge, then just wire a separate output jack? This way you can get natural string sound directly from the same electric guitar. It's going to sound like an acoustic guitar's electric output, not very natural by itself, but it will do the job.

[wiklund87]

http://www.smithsonguitar.com/ has some quite accurate sheet music... I hunted down the original books on ebay a few years back

 

as for pedals... it all depends on what songs you would like to play... I liked to do the songs very close to the records(and some live versions) and that's why I had all these pedals and the second guitarist for some songs.

 

a rat will work just fine.. I think Johnny used the OD-2

CE-2 for chorus is pretty much spot on... pitch vibrato is also nice to have for early songs like "Willam, it was really nothing"

I remember my second guitarist had a soft tremolo pedal for "how soon is now" ...and I played the screaming leads on top that was od+100% wet reverb boosted with an eq because of the volume drop...

pretty much any delay pedal will do... my BBE delay had only like 350ms, but I didn't need more

had a compressor for some of the more strumming songs like "Bigmouth" "Boy with the thorn" and "Nowhere Fast".... makes everything more controlled and balanced

the Tech21 Blonde was handy to get fender-like clean sounds if I didn't have a Fender Twin availible... but fck I was a snob back then, though everything had to sound so vintage to be good:P

[thom]

^Thanks a lot, that sort of info is golden right now.

 

I've got a CS-3 btw, but I might have to look for another way to fake my way through the vibrato bit in "William, etc", cause it's one of the songs I'd really want to do.

 

You think It'd be too difficult to replace the second guitar with a looper/sampler here and there? Like that screaming lead you mension in "how soon is now", seems like the song wouldn't be the same without it, but untill now I was actually thinking of doing everything with just four people...

 

I've got an RC-2 and a DL-4 that might take care of an extra layer in some songs, though I'm not sure if I'll manage to get the timing spot on every single time...

[ItchyFingers]

Way to go Thom!

 

You have decided to pay tribute to a band who has the most FANatic of all music fans, seriously! Lots of great info here, I'll just add a few of my own experiences, as I've been the rhythm player in a Smiths/Moz tribute for 5 years now. My rig has changed greatly while I've been in this band, so by no means am I telling you to go out and buy all this gear before you get gigs, its just what I have found works for me and gladly pass it along to you. Also, I should clarify - having a second guitarist (esp for the Smiths stuff) is almost a necessity because Marr would do so many overdubs on the albums, its really tough to replicate it live with just one guy.

 

Rule #1 that you probably already know - you need a capo! Lots of Smiths stuff is capo'd on the second thru fourth fret.

 

Guitars -

Acoustic - I agree with the above posts to throw a pickup in your Taylor or DI it to the PA. I have a Fender 12 string acoustic that is perfect for the acoustic stuff, but after awhile I got tired of lugging a third guitar to shows just for a few songs. I will now either use my Dano 12 string or a Tele with the volume rolled back (ie. no distorting) for things like Please Please Please, There is a Light, Voca Grande, etc.

 

Electric - As I said, I have a Dano 12 and view it like a poor man's Ric. My hands are too big for the Ric neck, so its not like I'm going to drop that kinda $$ on a Ric anyway. It's close enough for rock n roll, as I like to say. The lead guitarist and I have a bunch of other guitars that we use - Gretsch Power Jet, Les Pauls, Teles, Strats, etc. You really can't go wrong here as Marr used a ton of instruments.

 

Pedals - I use an HBE Compressor Retro, and its on almost all the time for me. Janglebox, as mentioned above, is another great one. The key is having something chimey, not clucky. Since we cover Smiths AND Moz, I need lots of different dirt to cover the 30 or so years he's been making music. I usually have 1-2 ODs and a Fuzz on my board. Right now its a Sweet Honey OD and a Pharoah (modified Muff clone is great for Sweet and Tender Hooligan, London, etc), and those two get me into most all sonic territory that I need. A CE-2 is a legit chorus, and I've also found that the Small Clone sounds good for the 80s stuff too. I use a POG2 for my chorus these days and also to replicate the strings in Everyday is Like Sunday, the Harmonica on Hand in Glove, etc. Trem is necessary if you are going to play How Soon. The Boss TR-2 and the Dano Tuna Melt (no seriously!) will get you damn close. I use the vibrato on my Deluxe Reverb - Speed 5, Intensity 8 and it nails it. I use an analog delay for slapback and a digital for cleaner repeats. Marr used an Eventide Harmonizer, but that might end up being the most expensive thing in your house - we've always gotten by without one.

 

Amps - IIRC, Marr was pretty big on Fender amps. How Soon was apparently recorded with 4 Fender Twin Reverbs all vibrato-ing at the same speed and depth. Again, pretty impractical for a live gig. My lead player uses a Top Hat and I've been using a DRRI, he pushes more chorus, and I push more reverb - that's worked out great for us.

 

If you have any questions on songs, changes, whatever is giving you a hard time, feel free to let me know. Chances are, we struggled with it too at some point! Here's a vid of us awhile back at one of my all-time favorite venues, the Belly Up.

 

[video=youtube;WWZtcpBw_Es]

[wiklund87]

 

^Thanks a lot, that sort of info is golden right now. I've got a CS-3 btw, but I might have to look for another way to fake my way through the vibrato bit in "William, etc", cause it's one of the songs I'd really want to do. You think It'd be too difficult to replace the second guitar with a looper/sampler here and there? Like that screaming lead you mension in "how soon is now", seems like the song wouldn't be the same without it, but untill now I was actually thinking of doing everything with just four people... I've got an RC-2 and a DL-4 that might take care of an extra layer in some songs, though I'm not sure if I'll manage to get the timing spot on every single time...

In the beginning of the project I actually planned using my RC-2 since I was the only guitar player.... it sounded off sync too often, since I constantly was playing the tremolo part..

anyway.. Johnny actually did something similar at the beginning of the "queen is dead" tour before Craig Gannon joined.

without the tremolo in the chorus part, the song will sound very naked, so I will highly recommend you to get someone to strum the tremolo part trough the whole song, you can shine on top with your overdriven lead sounds with verb on the verse.

btw the reason I used the Verbzilla on this song is because it has a pre-delay function so it will sound quite accurate to the records

[thom]

Wow, thanks again, tons of useful stuff here. That clip sounds pretty damn good, and it proves what I already figured out: We'll indeed need two guitars.

 

So to get it straight, am I missing anything important gear-whise to cover most hits/singles:

 

Fx: CE2, a bunch of fuzz peds, Rat2, EQD tremelo, DL-4, RV3, DD-5, CS3,...

Amps: Fender ToneMaster, Vox AC30 C2x,...

Gtrs: 60s telecaster (mim), telecaster '72 custom (mim, the other guitarist), Jazzmaster (mij), Les Paul Jr, soon-to-be-electrified Taylor BT2,...

 

So no Vibrato, 12string gtr, full body acoustic, (semi)hollow body, no real analog delay,...

 

I'll probably get back to you guys when we're actually rehearsing, the gear part will probably be the easiers thing to get out of the way. I'm sure we'll run into a bunch of obstacels real soon. Thanks again so far though!