Members dparr Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by erksin That's not changing the game. That's playing the same game with somebody else's ball. They were not Gibsons in any way. Much better. Yep, they were game changers. How many 70' Hamers have you played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members erksin Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by dparr They were not Gibsons in any way. Much better. Yep, they were game changers. How many 70' Hamers have you played? What innovations did they bring to the table that changed the game? They may have built a nicer mousetrap, but it was still a mousetrap. And it was a mousetrap originally designed by Gibson. I've played 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members erksin Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by dparr They were not Gibsons in any way. Much better. Yep, they were game changers. How many 70' Hamers have you played? What innovations did they bring to the table that changed the game? They may have built a nicer mousetrap, but it was still a mousetrap. And it was a mousetrap originally designed by Gibson. I've played 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y0UNGBL00D Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by HP Hovercraft Hmmm, interesting. So DRRI and up, then. thats what i thought earlier, but was just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y0UNGBL00D Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by HP Hovercraft Hmmm, interesting. So DRRI and up, then. thats what i thought earlier, but was just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewRiggins Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Zappa74 There's a reason Fender did this. It's because nobody outside of Cheap Trick gives a flying {censored} about Hamer guitars. don't forget Judas Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewRiggins Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Zappa74 There's a reason Fender did this. It's because nobody outside of Cheap Trick gives a flying {censored} about Hamer guitars. don't forget Judas Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Villano Dude Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Fender&EHX4ever As the American economy dies, and our American lifestyles become more expensive to maintain, so the rock-star-guitarist-as-a-career dream will just keep dying a long and slow death. Eventually no one will care about that anymore either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Villano Dude Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Fender&EHX4ever As the American economy dies, and our American lifestyles become more expensive to maintain, so the rock-star-guitarist-as-a-career dream will just keep dying a long and slow death. Eventually no one will care about that anymore either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by erksin What innovations did they bring to the table that changed the game? They may have built a nicer mousetrap, but it was still a mousetrap. And it was a mousetrap originally designed by Gibson. I've played 3. Strings running through body, brass nut and bridge and a different tone-volume layout that is great. Every product has to start somewhwre. Others take that product and improve on it. "Change" it for the better. Do you still drive a Model-T? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by erksin What innovations did they bring to the table that changed the game? They may have built a nicer mousetrap, but it was still a mousetrap. And it was a mousetrap originally designed by Gibson. I've played 3. Strings running through body, brass nut and bridge and a different tone-volume layout that is great. Every product has to start somewhwre. Others take that product and improve on it. "Change" it for the better. Do you still drive a Model-T? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewRiggins Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by erksin What innovations did they bring to the table that changed the game? They may have built a nicer mousetrap, but it was still a mousetrap. And it was a mousetrap originally designed by Gibson. I've played 3. you make it sound like Gibson invented electric guitars. The couple of body styles that they have in common with Gibson does not represent the entire production line as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewRiggins Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by erksin What innovations did they bring to the table that changed the game? They may have built a nicer mousetrap, but it was still a mousetrap. And it was a mousetrap originally designed by Gibson. I've played 3. you make it sound like Gibson invented electric guitars. The couple of body styles that they have in common with Gibson does not represent the entire production line as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 You can make the most inexpensive, highest quality guitar in the universe and it won't matter if nobody identifies with it. After all, in order to sell very high quality, at a low cost you gotta move a lot of volume... That is tough to sustain. Very few companies round that corner as well as Fender has. Having a diverse, modular product helped them a lot. You can get a good Fender at any price point, whether it is a $300 Squier made in China or a $5K custom shop made in California. Love for Fender from consumers as a brand has seemed to soften since their filing for IPO. Selling out mentality? I dunno. Wallstreet put a big stop to that pointing out that Fender is highly levered, borrowing money to buy Kaman for $117M. Or that they were/are owed tons of money by some of their largest customers. Just seems to me Fender put the pedal to the metal in 2006 (lots of businesses did), without taking business cycles into account or the fact that maybe the future for guitars in general is not bright as we'd all wish. This may seem like an aside. But in the face of all of it, Fender hasn't cut corners on their quality, you still get a lot for what you pay, as far as I've seen. I doubt they'd be to blame for the end of Hamer or Ovation or any other Kaman company. Also, it has been 5 years. This thread is the most I've read about Hamer guitars in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 You can make the most inexpensive, highest quality guitar in the universe and it won't matter if nobody identifies with it. After all, in order to sell very high quality, at a low cost you gotta move a lot of volume... That is tough to sustain. Very few companies round that corner as well as Fender has. Having a diverse, modular product helped them a lot. You can get a good Fender at any price point, whether it is a $300 Squier made in China or a $5K custom shop made in California. Love for Fender from consumers as a brand has seemed to soften since their filing for IPO. Selling out mentality? I dunno. Wallstreet put a big stop to that pointing out that Fender is highly levered, borrowing money to buy Kaman for $117M. Or that they were/are owed tons of money by some of their largest customers. Just seems to me Fender put the pedal to the metal in 2006 (lots of businesses did), without taking business cycles into account or the fact that maybe the future for guitars in general is not bright as we'd all wish. This may seem like an aside. But in the face of all of it, Fender hasn't cut corners on their quality, you still get a lot for what you pay, as far as I've seen. I doubt they'd be to blame for the end of Hamer or Ovation or any other Kaman company. Also, it has been 5 years. This thread is the most I've read about Hamer guitars in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zooLemon Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by BG76 FMIC has a track record of buying classic brands like Fender, Guild, Gretsch, Jackson, Hamer, etc.... Once they own the brand they simply make low end imported junk carrying the classic label. As someone who grew up loving the classic guitars it's frustrating to see "instruments" of such low quality carrying the cool brand names. From what I understand Fender doesn't even make American amplifiers anymore. It's sad. Anyway, say goodbye to Hamer. http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/index.php/ne...-follow/017230 I can't speak to Guild or Jackson but the import Gretsches I've played have been excellent instruments (especially for the price). I very strongly considered an Electromatic Duo Jet the last time I bought a new guitar. Originally Posted by caeman If it weren't for FMIC buying those brands, they would have each disappeared into history, never more producing instruments, and only hipsters and lawyers would be able to buy them. I think there's at least some truth to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zooLemon Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by BG76 FMIC has a track record of buying classic brands like Fender, Guild, Gretsch, Jackson, Hamer, etc.... Once they own the brand they simply make low end imported junk carrying the classic label. As someone who grew up loving the classic guitars it's frustrating to see "instruments" of such low quality carrying the cool brand names. From what I understand Fender doesn't even make American amplifiers anymore. It's sad. Anyway, say goodbye to Hamer. http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/index.php/ne...-follow/017230 I can't speak to Guild or Jackson but the import Gretsches I've played have been excellent instruments (especially for the price). I very strongly considered an Electromatic Duo Jet the last time I bought a new guitar. Originally Posted by caeman If it weren't for FMIC buying those brands, they would have each disappeared into history, never more producing instruments, and only hipsters and lawyers would be able to buy them. I think there's at least some truth to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by NewRiggins you make it sound like Gibson invented electric guitars. The couple of body styles that they have in common with Gibson does not represent the entire production line as a whole. No he makes it sound like Hamer doesn't make anything that wasn't already done by Gibson. "Me too, I'm cheaper." Literally says, "not the original." Though I disagree with Erksin on one account. Hamer's 8 and 12 string basses were pretty original. But who uses those? Jeff Ament from Pearl Jam and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by NewRiggins you make it sound like Gibson invented electric guitars. The couple of body styles that they have in common with Gibson does not represent the entire production line as a whole. No he makes it sound like Hamer doesn't make anything that wasn't already done by Gibson. "Me too, I'm cheaper." Literally says, "not the original." Though I disagree with Erksin on one account. Hamer's 8 and 12 string basses were pretty original. But who uses those? Jeff Ament from Pearl Jam and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by The Great Waldo Pepper You can make the most inexpensive, highest quality guitar in the universe and it won't matter if nobody identifies with it. After all, in order to sell very high quality, at a low cost you gotta move a lot of volume... That is tough to sustain. Very few companies round that corner as well as Fender has. Having a diverse, modular product helped them a lot. You can get a good Fender at any price point, whether it is a $300 Squier made in China or a $5K custom shop made in California. Love for Fender from consumers as a brand has seemed to soften since their filing for IPO. Selling out mentality? I dunno. Wallstreet put a big stop to that pointing out that Fender is highly levered, borrowing money to buy Kaman for $117M. Or that they were/are owed tons of money by some of their largest customers. Just seems to me Fender put the pedal to the metal in 2006 (lots of businesses did), without taking business cycles into account or the fact that maybe the future for guitars in general is not bright as we'd all wish. This may seem like an aside. But in the face of all of it, Fender hasn't cut corners on their quality, you still get a lot for what you pay, as far as I've seen. I doubt they'd be to blame for the end of Hamer or Ovation or any other Kaman company. Also, it has been 5 years. This thread is the most I've read about Hamer guitars in 20 years. Rarely is the best ever the most popular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by The Great Waldo Pepper You can make the most inexpensive, highest quality guitar in the universe and it won't matter if nobody identifies with it. After all, in order to sell very high quality, at a low cost you gotta move a lot of volume... That is tough to sustain. Very few companies round that corner as well as Fender has. Having a diverse, modular product helped them a lot. You can get a good Fender at any price point, whether it is a $300 Squier made in China or a $5K custom shop made in California. Love for Fender from consumers as a brand has seemed to soften since their filing for IPO. Selling out mentality? I dunno. Wallstreet put a big stop to that pointing out that Fender is highly levered, borrowing money to buy Kaman for $117M. Or that they were/are owed tons of money by some of their largest customers. Just seems to me Fender put the pedal to the metal in 2006 (lots of businesses did), without taking business cycles into account or the fact that maybe the future for guitars in general is not bright as we'd all wish. This may seem like an aside. But in the face of all of it, Fender hasn't cut corners on their quality, you still get a lot for what you pay, as far as I've seen. I doubt they'd be to blame for the end of Hamer or Ovation or any other Kaman company. Also, it has been 5 years. This thread is the most I've read about Hamer guitars in 20 years. Rarely is the best ever the most popular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by dparr Strings running through body, brass nut and bridge and a different tone-volume layout that is great. Every product has to start somewhwre. Others take that product and improve on it. "Change" it for the better. Do you still drive a Model-T? Actually, one of my cars is a hotrod Model-T... Granted it is a fiberglass bucket mounted to a Chevy 350. But yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by dparr Strings running through body, brass nut and bridge and a different tone-volume layout that is great. Every product has to start somewhwre. Others take that product and improve on it. "Change" it for the better. Do you still drive a Model-T? Actually, one of my cars is a hotrod Model-T... Granted it is a fiberglass bucket mounted to a Chevy 350. But yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by dparr Rarely is the best ever the most popular? Is this the only question you derived from my post? If so I am not sure I used absolute terms like "most popular" or "best", I certainly wasn't thinking in such absolutes. So I am gonna ask you to clarify what you mean by your question, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by dparr Rarely is the best ever the most popular? Is this the only question you derived from my post? If so I am not sure I used absolute terms like "most popular" or "best", I certainly wasn't thinking in such absolutes. So I am gonna ask you to clarify what you mean by your question, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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