Just got a marshall dsl tube amp. it has buzzy nasty distortion(unwanted).Please help

[xgxmanx]

 

Originally posted by pureanalog Hi folks. Today I received by UPS a Marshall DSL201 20 Watt all tube amp. 4 12ax7 preamp tubes and 2 EL84 The amp sounds well when played at the clean channel with the clean channel gain control under 4-5 and master volume at moderate to quite loud levels. When gain is turned up or when I switch to the dirty channel I get this nasty distortion. Not the kind of distortion one wants but rather a buzzy and fuzzy distortion like the speaker has a problem or something. But no it is not the speaker. I did this test. I hooked up the PODxt to the Effects return input and used the POD as a pre-amp. Everything sounded pretty fine. So the problem must be somewhere in the pre-amp section right?? I swapped the pre-amp tubes positions with one another and nothing changed. I emailed the guy who sold the amp to me and he claims that the amp was working fine before he sent it. I also noticed that the REVERB has an effect on this problem. When turned up its nastier. But it doesnt change anything drastically though. This buzzy distortion makes the amp unusable. Any ideas or suggestions?

 

 

 

Ummm...

it's new Marshall product...

sounds par for the course to me...

 

buy engl and be saved

[Filter500]

 

Originally posted by pureanalog guys you are taking it off topic now. Can you help on the problem?

 

 

Nobody can help you, that much is clear. If something is wrong with the amp it doesn't sound like a common problem. You're going to have to take it to a tech or trash it. I wouldn't suggest selling that amp to another poor soul.

[pureanalog]

 

Originally posted by Filter500 Nobody can help you, that much is clear. If something is wrong with the amp it doesn't sound like a common problem. You're going to have to take it to a tech or trash it. I wouldn't suggest selling that amp to another poor soul.

 

 

Thats what i needed to know. If this is a common problem or sign that the tubes are going bad.

 

I am taking it to the tech tommorow morning.

[freaksho]

 

Originally posted by pureanalog Thats what i needed to know. If this is a common problem or sign that the tubes are going bad. I am taking it to the tech tommorow morning.

 

 

i have one and i think it sounds great, especially for the $400 i spent (new). the are a number of forumites that hate this amp for no good reason. ignore them. you can get some great vintage blues and rock tones out of this thing. and the clean aint nothin to sneeze at either, as you have already discovered. three things i've found that you may find helpful:

 

1. like the others said, krank those EL84's. i NEVER have my MASTER below 3 o'clock, usually higher even. it can really sing when these guys are working hard. adjust volume at the indivdual channels.

 

2. on the gain channel, it starts to sound mushy when GAIN is at 12 o'clock or so. i don't go higher than that and don't need to. no, this is definitely not metal amp, but like all marshalls, you can put a light OD in front to push it into higher gain land (i use a Boss SD-1 - they're great and only $40-50 new). but i love this amp for classic rock and crunch (for example, Led Zep at GAIN=9 o'clock, AC/DC at 10 or 10:30).

 

for more info on tone tweaking the owners manual is quite helpful. it explains in great details how to achieve different tones. you can download a pdf off of the Marshall site.

 

3. you may consider replacing the speaker. the stock speaker is a bit thin. i put a used Celestion V30 ($70) into mine and it really added some balls. plus it's a more effeicient speaker so you get a bit more volume out of it.

 

 

but regarding your problem, assuming that the EL84's are indeed new and ok, the simplest thing you should first try is to swap out all the 12AX7 (ECC83) tubes and rebias, which they made very very simple on this amp. it's just a the turn of a pot - literally. and you need a voltmeter, which you can get cheaply at a hardware store. (i have documents that explain the bias procedure. pm me if you're interested.) anyway, i think this would be cheaper and easier than a tech as a first try at solving the problem.

 

btw, i have all JJ's in mine and i love 'em.

 

good luck.

be sure to post the conclusion to your saga!

 

bz

[pureanalog]

 

Originally posted by freaksho i have one and i think it sounds great, especially for the $400 i spent (new). the are a number of forumites that hate this amp for no good reason. ignore them. you can get some great vintage blues and rock tones out of this thing. and the clean aint nothin to sneeze at either, as you have already discovered. three things i've found that you may find helpful: 1. like the others said, krank those EL84's. i NEVER have my MASTER below 3 o'clock, usually higher even. it can really sing when these guys are working hard. adjust volume at the indivdual channels. 2. on the gain channel, it starts to sound mushy when GAIN is at 12 o'clock or so. i don't go higher than that and don't need to. no, this is definitely not metal amp, but like all marshalls, you can put a light OD in front to push it into higher gain land (i use a Boss SD-1 - they're great and only $40-50 new). but i love this amp for classic rock and crunch (for example, Led Zep at GAIN=9 o'clock, AC/DC at 10 or 10:30). for more info on tone tweaking the owners manual is quite helpful. it explains in great details how to achieve different tones. you can download a pdf off of the Marshall site. 3. you may consider replacing the speaker. the stock speaker is a bit thin. i put a used Celestion V30 ($70) into mine and it really added some balls. plus it's a more effeicient speaker so you get a bit more volume out of it. but regarding your problem, assuming that the EL84's are indeed new and ok, the simplest thing you should first try is to swap out all the 12AX7 (ECC83) tubes and rebias, which they made very very simple on this amp. it's just a the turn of a pot - literally. and you need a voltmeter, which you can get cheaply at a hardware store. (i have documents that explain the bias procedure. pm me if you're interested.) anyway, i think this would be cheaper and easier than a tech as a first try at solving the problem. btw, i have all JJ's in mine and i love 'em. good luck. be sure to post the conclusion to your saga! bz

 

 

I have listened to an ENGL thunder 50 Watt combo and I wouldnt say that it was a definite winner over the DSL marshalls. They sound different and one might prefer the marshall sound.

 

I think that one listens to the other in the forums and while they never have listened to a particular piece of gear they hate it or love it...

 

Great tone will come if you own plain decent gear. The rest is up to the player. I bet that some players will sound decent even if you give them a crappy solid state combo and a crappy guitar.

 

 

Changing the speaker is one of my plans once I decide I like this and will not sell it. I am thinking about either a Greenback or a V30 used.

 

There is a used ENGL screamer combo if i add another couple of hundred EUROS to the amount I would get selling the Marshall. But Marshalls and Les Pauls kind of belong together dont they?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the tips regarding the settings. I already have the manual in print version. I will check out your settings once the amp is healthy. We have a similar guitar( Gibson Les Paul Studio) only mine is equipped with a PAF from a 1980 standard in the bridge

 

check this thread about it

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=871034

 

 

I thought that pre-amp tubes do not neet re-biasing. Could you please elaborate?

 

thanks for being so helpful!! I appreciate it.

[freaksho]

 

Originally posted by pureanalog Great tone will come if you own plain decent gear. The rest is up to the player. I bet that some players will sound decent even if you give them a crappy solid state combo and a crappy guitar.

 

 

couldn't agree more. and further, what ever happened to developing your own sound? lots of great bands do great things that sound (god forbid) original by making use of cheap and/or funky equipment. it should be more about the notes and less the tone.

 

that said, i'm really gasing for the Orange AD30HTC.

(i'm such a hypocrit.)

 

 

 

But Marshalls and Les Pauls kind of belong together dont they?

 

 

you bet they do! i'm a sort of sloppy improv blues lead player and i swear with the LP/Marshall together i feel like i'm chanelling Page's voodoo (some moments, at least).

 

 

 

I thought that pre-amp tubes do not neet re-biasing. Could you please elaborate?

 

 

yes yes. you're absolutley right. i just meant that if you're going to open it up anyway, you might as well double check the bias in case the joker that replaced the power tubes didn't do it properly. sorry for the confusion.

 

take care.

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by DeadNight Warrior Sorry, but IMHO having "depends on how the EQ is put in the circuit" in brackets amidst all the other stuff does not equate to "Oh, by the way this is only really if you've got an active EQ in your amp, which chances are you don't, so this doesn't really apply".

 

 

Gee, let's discuss all the ways EQ is built into amplifiers.

 

Dude...my point is that on MY Marshall, I was able to get a better sound by taking the EQ's to "0". Whether that is cut boost half WHATEVER, that's what I did.

 

And I realize...since I *DO have a an old Fender Twin...that if you don't give it SOME EQ, you're going to get little or no sound.

 

 

Hence the "how the eq is built, incorporated or HOWEVER *you* wish me to say it, into the amp.".

 

Sorry I didn't say it precisely as you wish.

 

 

Hopefully the guy has tried to adjust the EQ, and not just a notch or two.

 

I doubt it will help, but it was just me trying to help.

[kannibul]

Originally posted by 17 Tubes Gee, let's discuss all the ways EQ is built into amplifiers. Dude...my point is that on MY Marshall, I was able to get a better sound by taking the EQ's to "0". Whether that is cut boost half WHATEVER, that's what I did. And I realize...since I *DO have a an old Fender Twin...that if you don't give it SOME EQ, you're going to get little or no sound. Hence the "how the eq is built, incorporated or HOWEVER *you* wish me to say it, into the amp.". Sorry I didn't say it precisely as you wish. Hopefully the guy has tried to adjust the EQ, and not just a notch or two. I doubt it will help, but it was just me trying to help.

 

Let's talk about the bandaxial curcuit...

[pureanalog]

just came back from the tech...

 

 

The amp is fine according to him. He made it sound good. How?Used completely different setting from the ones I normally use. He cranked the thing to the end....

 

The thing is I cannot crank it like this at home... 20W is still to loud. I will be gigging it anyway.

 

The thing is that I can always sell it now since it is fine...

 

The other option would be an Engl screamer somebody sells locally for 800 EUROS.

 

Maybe that could come down to 700 I dont know..

 

The marshall would sell for like 450.

 

Would I rather be checking out an ENGL pre-amp for like 180 EUROS used from ebay.de

 

 

Kind of confused.

 

I have to learn how to produce good tone with my fingers and forget about gear.

[LaXu]

IMO the ENGL is a much better amp. It will of course have the loudness problem since it's a 50W amp. When I was shopping for an amp a few years ago to me it was a toss between the DSL50 head and the ENGL Screamer and the DSL won because it was more for my tastes as far as voicing goes, the DSL was more rock oriented while the ENGL excelled in metal. But IMO there is no comparison between the ENGL and the DSL201/401 combos.

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by pureanalog just came back from the tech... The amp is fine according to him. He made it sound good. How?Used completely different setting from the ones I normally use. He cranked the thing to the end.... Kind of confused. I have to learn how to produce good tone with my fingers and forget about gear.

 

This is kind of what I tried to tell you, and got shit on for.'

 

Sometimes we are SO afraid to turn the dials. CAHNGE YOUR SETTINGS!

 

BTW...."Using Completely different settings" means that, sometimes, you DO have to pay attention to your gear. Not "forget about it". Sure, good playing and tone starts at your fingers, but your gear brings it to your ear. It has to sound something like what your brain wants to hear or it's crap. Your gear does most of that.

[poida]

Sound like me a few years ago. I tried a marshall tsl out for like 30 minutes and just bought it so i could be cool and say i have a "tube amp"..anyway...i ended up with a hate for the new marshalls... coudlnt stand the "distortion" ...the amp sounded ok at loud volumes....but at low volumes it was utterly disgusting...at least my engl is an amp i can play at low volumes

[pureanalog]

 

Originally posted by 17 Tubes This is kind of what I tried to tell you, and got {censored} on for.' Sometimes we are SO afraid to turn the dials. CAHNGE YOUR SETTINGS!

 

 

 

Damn right!

 

The amp can get pretty good rock tones which is what I am opting for. But it is not very good at lower volumes.

 

Sure gigging is my main interest.

 

The voicing I like is what Marshalls sound like. Is there a better way to get a Marshall voicing at a combo?

 

Sure there are JCM800 but these can be had only used and they are like over 20 years old...

[pureanalog]

I was looking for ENGLs too when searching for a tube combo but

the thing is that all the ENGL clips I have heard were brutal sounding. I was opting for a good hard rock tone plus a bit more. I couldnt be sure whether ENGLS can produce as good a hard rock tone...

[MeanFingers]

Originally posted by pureanalog just came back from the tech... The amp is fine according to him. He made it sound good. How?Used completely different setting from the ones I normally use. He cranked the thing to the end.... The thing is I cannot crank it like this at home... 20W is still to loud. I will be gigging it anyway.

 

I have owned and played a DSL 401 since 1999. It is a strange amplifier, it seems like everytime I play it, it sounds different. I had it retubed with some EI el84s because the amp tech told me that to use anything else, he would have to drill out the holes because they wouldn't fit (??)

 

However, the amp did sound fantastic after the tube change, and though I was previously thinking of selling the amp, I decided to keep it.

 

But a few months later the preamp tubes went. I had them changed, and now the amp sounds like crap again.

 

My plans are to put some decent preamp tubes in the thing, perhaps some NOS Mullards or Telefunkens. I am also going to switch out the speaker for a Celestion g12h30 or perhaps a Vintage 30.

 

I also noticed that this amp sounds best in a carpeted room, sitting in a corner. The amp sounds really buzzy and thin in a room with wood or tile floors. In that case it helps a little to put a rug under the amp, but not much.

 

I have spent many enjoyable evenings with a Gibson Les Paul, through this amp. I own a couple of vintage Marshalls also, and of course they sound a lot different, but I think the DSL401 has some good sweet spots and it is a good amp, especially if you only paid $400. I paid around $725 including tax for mine in 1999.

[MadKeithV]

 

Originally posted by pureanalog Sure there are JCM800 but these can be had only used and they are like over 20 years old...

 

 

And they are arse-whoopingly good. Get one.

[Mister2]

Originally posted by pureanalog I have to learn how to produce good tone with my fingers and forget about gear.

 

Hi,

 

Absolutely nothing improves your tone better than practice !! and its free !!

 

However having a useable distortion that allows you to get on with the "improving" is very important.

 

Try a bunch of decent overdrive/distortion pedals with the Marshall and your set. take amp and guitar to local shop and try a bunch (plus you save yourself the large outlay of a new amp)

 

Thank me latter

 

Rich

[Highgrade]

 

Originally posted by pureanalog Hi folks. Today I received by UPS a Marshall DSL201 20 Watt all tube amp. 4 12ax7 preamp tubes and 2 EL84 The amp sounds well when played at the clean channel with the clean channel gain control under 4-5 and master volume at moderate to quite loud levels. When gain is turned up or when I switch to the dirty channel I get this nasty distortion. Not the kind of distortion one wants but rather a buzzy and fuzzy distortion like the speaker has a problem or something. But no it is not the speaker. I did this test. I hooked up the PODxt to the Effects return input and used the POD as a pre-amp. Everything sounded pretty fine. So the problem must be somewhere in the pre-amp section right?? I swapped the pre-amp tubes positions with one another and nothing changed. I emailed the guy who sold the amp to me and he claims that the amp was working fine before he sent it. I also noticed that the REVERB has an effect on this problem. When turned up its nastier. But it doesnt change anything drastically though. This buzzy distortion makes the amp unusable. Any ideas or suggestions?

 

 

I had a new JCM2000 DSL50 head plugged into my Marshall 1960A cab and while the clean channel was very nice I did not like the gain channels at all and ended up returning the head to the music store. I did not like the reverb on it either and just HATED the sound of the spring dancing around every time I moved the head.

 

I got a MESA BOOGIE F-50 combo and love it.

[rocky-rabbit]

cut the mids and the od2 volume to 2, open the gain and master volume to 6. i think it will do the job:p

[goat0063]

For Marshalls and the classic rocks sound try:-

 

- Use a Brimar NOS in V1 - makes the distortion sweet and classic not harsh and gritty.

- Avoid the stock speakers in combos - put in something like a G12H / Vintage 30 / Greenback.

- The Greenback and Vintage 30 loaded cabs give more of a traditional classic rock sound than the scooped G12T75's in standard 1960 cabs.

- Don't overdo the treble and presence controls.

- Don't crank the pre-amp gain - I can get perfectly good tone with the gain set at 3 on both the crunch and lead channels.

Let that power-amp section sing!

[Daneswede1]

I agree with the guy above in that Marshall with channel switching have never sounded as organic as a single channl version IMO. Especially the smasller combos. Ok, that being said and seeing how you are stuck now with it. First off, Spend the money for a bench charge and take to a local and reputable and I re iterate reputable Marshall guy or person who knows there valve amps well. Tell him exactlky the scene on this rig and let him do his thing. If he comes back with a clean bill of health and nothing is wrong i.e That is Tubes, transformer, caps, no dirt ,etc All is in working order and the tubes have been changed as well as lighting up. Then I would say try running it with a Boss Pedal like a DS1. Something basic but decent. Use a humbucker pickup guitar and try these settings.

Treble-10 oclock

Middle1 oclock

Bass-3 oclock

Preamp-3 15 oclock

Presence- 1 oclock

That should all be safe enough settings and on the pedal run the Boss at:

Level-just a hair past 12 oclock

Drive 3 oclock

tone 12 oclock

 

These are settings that have been proven to sound decent on just about any valve type Marshall you can own IMO

If you turn on and the sound is still crackling and {censored}ty then guess what. You bought a lunker. Its firewood time. Emai lthe guy and complain and tell him to give you your money back

good luck!!!!!!!

Im aure these settings arent to everyone liking but they are a safe bet for a good tone

However your problem will probably not get that far and your amp tech will surely find the problem if its not just in your head!!!!!!

[ranalli]

 

Originally posted by MadKeithV And they are arse-whoopingly good. Get one.

 

 

 

His 20 watt combo is already too loud for his needs......I don't know if I would suggest this....

 

 

To be honest....just get a damn PODXT for practice then have a separate amp for gigging.

 

 

Marshalls are meant to be played LOUD to get their tone....there's no way around it.

[cap'n'crunch]

 

Originally posted by freaksho i have one and i think it sounds great, especially for the $400 i spent (new). the are a number of forumites that hate this amp for no good reason. ignore them. you can get some great vintage blues and rock tones out of this thing. and the clean aint nothin to sneeze at either, as you have already discovered. three things i've found that you may find helpful: bz

 

 

I have one too. While I prefer my 2204 halfstack, the DSLcombo also has some great tones. These amps aren't crapped on at other forums. The main problem with these newer Marshalls is the gain knobs. They should only go to 5 instead of 10. Past 5 the distortion gets thin and buzzy. If you need more gain then 4 - 5 then use a OD just the same way you would with a JCM800. Another thing that works for me is to always have the master on 10 and use the channels volume to adjust volume level.

[cap'n'crunch]

Originally posted by MeanFingers I had it retubed with some EI el84s because the amp tech told me that to use anything else, he would have to drill out the holes because they wouldn't fit (??)

 

JJ's will fit. Thats what I have in mine.

[gusfinley]

Yes, the JJ's will fit.

 

By the way, that amp has soooo much gain on tap... too much.

 

Here is what I did on mine. I threw a 12DW7 preamp tube into V2. There are available from Eurotubes.

 

The 12DW7 is half a 12ax7 and half a 12au7. In this case the 12ax7 will keep the clean channel the same, while the 12au7 will reduce the avaible gain by about 14dB.

 

with mine I can now actually get a clean/lowgain setting with the gain knob on the OD channel!! And it will still get some more modern sounds, but best of all , the BUZZy distortion is now much less harsh!!