Members pogo97 Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 I asked a related question in the effects forum but I'm wondering if you guys have other useful suggestions. My dirty little secret: though I'm primarily a pianist, I've played guitar for 35 years and occasionally owned an electric. I just got an Epiphone Dot 335 copy and am doing okay playing it through my x-station or through GarageBand's new amp modelling and into headphones (my Motion Sound 200s is at the jam space) but would prefer to be all analogue. I really don't want to have to buy and haul a dedicated guitar amp and would prefer to avoid unnecessary A/D-D/A nonsense. Any of you guys play an electric through your keys amp? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fuzzlabs Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Don't see why it wouldn't work. You may want to run it through some kind of preamp first to boost the level and adjust the impedance (guitar = high Z/low level, keyboard = low Z/line level). It will give you a cleaner sound, since guitar amps are not exactly high fidelity, by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Keyboard amps are designed to reproduce a full range signal cleanly. Guitar amps are designed to shape and distort the signal considerably and to roll of the high frequencies. Without some kind of preamp in there to replicate a guitar amp, you won't get a very satisfying sound. I use a Traynor K4 for my guitar, but I run it through a Tonelab LE first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 I asked a related question in the effects forum but I'm wondering if you guys have other useful suggestions. My dirty little secret: though I'm primarily a pianist, I've played guitar for 35 years and occasionally owned an electric. I just got an Epiphone Dot 335 copy and am doing okay playing it through my x-station or through GarageBand's new amp modelling and into headphones (my Motion Sound 200s is at the jam space) but would prefer to be all analogue. I really don't want to have to buy and haul a dedicated guitar amp and would prefer to avoid unnecessary A/D-D/A nonsense. Any of you guys play an electric through your keys amp? Any suggestions? Yea ... But I use a couple powered speakers for my key amp. So basically i am just plugging into the board. Most acoustic acts I know run through the board. Will you get that monster lead guitar tone. Prolly not, Will it work for rhythm with that thin line ,, sure no prob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 For the reasons GCDEF pointed out (the guitar won't sound alright in a keyboard amp without a guitar amp simulation being used first) I recommend you get something like a Zoom G1, G1X or G2. The G1 will cost you like 50 bucks and will give you plenty of effects and the amp simulation you need. Of course there's more expensive options. But I'd take a Zoom over a Line6 any day. Now if you want to go to the level of a TC Electronics G-System or a Rocktron Prophesy II, that's another story. In that case, you'll get what you pay for. A lot of people also LOVE the JMP-1 rack unit from Marshall. It's a bit old but I've used it in a studio once and I thought it was really nice. It's a tube preamp. And lest I forget... Teh Hughes and Kettner Tubeman II If you're looking into a jazzier sound, it's the best in any price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FifthElement Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just use one of the Line6 PODs - basic POD will do. They are designed to run through a clean, wide range amp such as a PA, monitors or keyboard amp. I run my electrics and electro acoustic through an old POD 2.0 and get everything from clear, bright acoustic tones to "rectified" overdriven tones by selecting an appropriate amp sim and the minimum of effects - through the PA or a keyboard. You can go for any amp sim/effects unit (as long as it can be switched to go through a "clean" amp not just a guitar amp), but personally I'd recommend Line6 as they have a very powerful, raw "analogue" drive compared to some of the other thin, over processed units from other manufacturers (I have a Zoom G1X and our guitarist uses a VOX Tonelab). Each to their own taste of course. it's always subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Also you want a speaker that has a brutal rolloff of highs at appr. 7 Khz... Just get a guitar amp and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 My dirty little secret: though I'm primarily a pianist, I've played guitar for 35 years and occasionally owned an electric. I just got an Epiphone Dot 335 copy and am doing okay playing it through my x-station or through GarageBand's new amp modelling and into headphones (my Motion Sound 200s is at the jam space) but would prefer to be all analogue. I really don't want to have to buy and haul a dedicated guitar amp and would prefer to avoid unnecessary A/D-D/A nonsense. I actually like my guitar/amp modeller - in my case, a Roland VG-99, so the A/D-D/A doesn't bother me at all. But if you really want to avoid digital models and also avoid getting a tube guitar amp, perhaps a Tech21 Sansamp might be worth a look: http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/index.html But if you're after a good tube amp sound - particularly the elusive on the edge of breakup sound, you might have to go with modelling or a tube amp after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rw brown Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Having pirated my son's keyboard amp -> it does work quite reasonably. To get a more options, I have a secondhand Yamaha Stompbox that can give a variety of effects including distortion, etc. For a home hobbyist it's quite useable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 If you want the absolute best in guitar emulation, this guy has it. I have a friend that worked on R&D with him on the processor side. http://www.fractalaudio.com/ My friend also contributed with a couple songs in the demo page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Don't connect a guitar into a Keyboard amp. As soon as you do that, you will be converting the sound into MIDI data and it sounds bad!! ... Right? * Those are the kind of questions / new theories I get every time during my Digital Audio / MIDI clinics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gunslinger69 Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 I've run my guitar through my old CK-60, but I run some fairly heavy distortion, chorus, and delay so the fact that it's not a guitar amp probably matters less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 You prolly know I am a guitarist who crossed over and takes piano lessons now. I have owned guitar amp+cabinet modelers from just about every single vendor out there, including Boss/Roland, Carvin, Digitech, Line6, Vox, Tech21, Rocktron, and Yamaha (not to mention guitar rig 3 on my PC). The Fractal Audio stuff is considered to be top-notch but is very expensive. Quite a few professional touring guitarists use units from all the above. I eventually settled on the Rocktron Prophecy for rack through a Mesa Boogie 20/20 tube power amp and a Vox Tonelab for a floor model. I also a couple higher end guitar tube amps (Bogner Shiva and Dr. Z Maz 18) and have used the "Ebay renting system" to buy, try, and resell quite a few others. I also own a vintage Music Man HD 150 tube amp (bought it new about 27 years ago). Factors that will go into what you choose will be your budget, your desire for various types of amp and speaker models, whether you want floor or rack mount, whether you want or care about digital audio out and/or computer interface, whether you want effects included in the device and which effects, durability and dependability of the unit, and others I am sure. Let us remember that we are talking about direct boxes for going from an electric guitar to a keyboard amp or PA that has a flat broadband frequency response and will not compress and distort the way guitar cabinets do depending on the input. All the guitar cabinet responses are to be emulated in the DI box. For a simple floor-based DI-type box I would probably go for a Tech21 TriAC. You should probably be able to get one from Ebay for order 100 USD. They are dead nuts simple, very durable, very high quality analog, and sound great. I owned one for a couple of years and sold it mostly because I just didn't need it. You can program 3 sounds in it each retrievable by a separate foot switch so you can make a nice clean (think Fender), a dirty rock (think cranked Vox), and a higher gain lead or crunch (Mesa type). Another unit that might suit you that costs a little more is the Damage Control Womanizer. They make another DI pedal called the "Demonizer" that is higher gain. For a floor processor with lots of effects and presets and whatnot I would suggest the Vox Tonelab LE. You should be able to get one from Ebay for about 300 USD. These units just have to me the best most tube-like sound out of all the floor units I have tried. The higher-end tube-based Zoom G-series are supposed to be good too but I have never tried one. You can get an older Tonelab desktop for about 100 USD on the bay these days. I had one of those before I got the LE and it was very nice-sounding and easy to program (and great for practicing at 6 AM when the rest of the family was asleep). If you absolutely must have crushing chain-saw like or fizzy gain then the Line 6 Pod products are probably a better choice but I think that overall they don't sound as tube-like as the Vox. The Vox also does not have USB direct to PC, but it does have a digital audio out; for direct into a KB amp you probably don't care anyway. For a rack unit, the Rocktron Prophecy is a very nice-sounding unit and is easy to program. In many ways it is not as fancy as the POD products or the Fractal Audio stuff but it has an elegant front panel interface. Its weak point is its speaker emulation which is pretty good but not as good or variable as the Vox Tonelab or the Line6 products. The effects are gorgeous and the amount of control you have over your EQ pre and post gain staging and whatnot are superb. I did not buy my unit to function as a direct box (it goes into a Mesa 20/20 power amp and then into two closed-back Mesa 1x12 cabinets) but I have tried it out that way through my PA and it sounds pretty good. In all honesty I prefer this unit as an old-fashioned preamp and not a DI type unit. I think my dream preamp (not a DI box, not a preset monster, just 3 channels of all-tube awesomeness) is the Custom Audio Electronics 3+SE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yes I was going to mention the Vox Tonelab but I forgot about it. Nice little unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm a keyboard player who sometimes plays rhythm guitar. I also grew up with a guitar playing brother and am familiar with the intricacies of Marshalls, Boogies, Fenders, et al. For years I have played a Boogie through a H&K Red Box direct to my keyboard amp. The guitar player in our band liked it better than his Tech21 modeller. It sounded better than the line out because the Red Box captured the tone of the tube power amp which is where the TONE is. The line out is before the tube power amp and you can hear the difference. I had upgraded to a Vox Tonelab SE and it sounds really good through a keyboard amp or direct to PA. The big reason is it models the power amp as well as the preamp. Very few modellers emulate the tube power amp section of guitar amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darkstorm Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 As long as the keyboard amps cab does not have a piezo tweeter is fine for guitar. Guitarv to processor of choice for ready for recording tone, to keyboard amp, full range bass amp, Pa, or powered monitor speakers is my preferance and has been for the last two decades. Mentions no peizo tweeter allowed cause those just such horrible with any kind of overdrive or distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 As long as the keyboard amps cab does not have a piezo tweeter is fine for guitar. Guitarv to processor of choice for ready for recording tone, to keyboard amp, full range bass amp, Pa, or powered monitor speakers is my preferance and has been for the last two decades. Mentions no peizo tweeter allowed cause those just such horrible with any kind of overdrive or distortion. This is the reason speaker simulation was invented - from the Red Box to today's modelers. Simulated guitar 4x12 cab through PA speaker is better than nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted March 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 Don't connect a guitar into a Keyboard amp. As soon as you do that, you will be converting the sound into MIDI data and it sounds bad!! ... Right? but not if you use a dedicated MIDI cord which has special FM transistor circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gearaholic79 Posted March 25, 2009 Members Share Posted March 25, 2009 i use a rare boss twin series fp20 amp factory on my clavinet. bare bones no rev or trem. my mackie srm450 is full range and the pedal rolls the highs off just fine. itwas discontinued soon after release but i think they make single pedals for deluxe ,bassman and tweed.ive also had good results from the microcube line out.if you spend more than 100 bucks the floorpod from line 6 may be more convincing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChrisAlbertson Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 http://home.cogeco.ca/~douglasgifford/stuffholder/dot.jpg..I really don't want to have to buy and haul a dedicated guitar amp and would prefer to avoid unnecessary A/D-D/A nonsense.Any of you guys play an electric through your keys amp? Any suggestions? First off the k/b amp's impedance is wrong. Guitars like about 1 megaohm and the k/b amp is about 10X or so less. The level is wrong too. guitars don't have as much signal as a keyboard. But still you might get enough sound out. It will sound "wrong" but you'd get sound. I tried it just a few days ago. Well not exactly but I put my bass guitar into a regular audio mixer and amp. Same thing really as a k/b amp. The result. was not nearly enough roll off on the high end. You could hear my fingers moving on the strings even if i really din't move them much. You'd need a very powerful amount of "EQ" on the amp to kill the high and mids I think to get what you want the best way to go is to buy a guitar pre-amp. It will have the correct input impedance, corect tone and then you can run it's line out to your amp. Your k/b amp is designed for line level signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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