Members Mister Crowley Posted December 28, 2005 Members Share Posted December 28, 2005 Hi Guys, The tubes in my Hot Rod Deluxe amp are not working (and after only 4 months months of having bought the amp brand new) and I need to replace them. I'm such a n00b when it comes to guitar amps, are there any other tube options besides these stock Fender tubes that seem to have let me down so quickly? I currently have a MIM Tele and an AMSE Tele both with stock pups, I mostly play rock, indie, neo classical, with some metal and even jazz in there. I love the clean tones of the HRD but have always used my RP2000's distortion since the HRD's distortion is more a surf type/rockabilly distortion that I don't find useful. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted December 29, 2005 Members Share Posted December 29, 2005 That really depends on how much money you want to spend. The drive channel on the HRD is not intended for Marshall-esque overdrive, and tubes aren't going to change that. What a good set of valves will do is smooth the amp out and take away that icepick brittleness inherent to the HRD. If money is no object, put a set of NOS Sylvania or RCA's from the 1960's in it. You'd be looking at $150+, but you'd have reliable tone like you've never heard from that amp. Tung-Sols are probably the best tube for the pre's if you're on a budget, and EH's or Svetlanas are probably the best budget tube for the 6L6 power section. Stay away from the Groove Tubes that were in it factory. So Killer tone: $150+ Ok, usable tone (but still way better than stock): $80 or so. If you want the best source for the old NOS stuff, pm me and I'll set you up with a guy that is, bar none, the best out there. Guaranteed products, which is good for 40 year old stuff. The new stuff is available via the web at www.tubedepot.com and other places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mister Crowley Posted December 29, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2005 Thanks for the reply, so those NOS tubes re they pre-amp tubes or power tubes, or both. I'm looking for better clean tones since distortion outta the HRD will always suck. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tshapiro Posted December 29, 2005 Members Share Posted December 29, 2005 First off, contrary to popular belief, you can get a good crunch out of the HRD. Put it on More Gain and turn the Pre up to 8. Use a humbucker and presto! Marshall crunch... better than Marshall crunch actually. A single coil ain't going to get you there though. I recommend EH 12AX7 preamp tubes and JJ 6L6 power tubes. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gris Posted December 29, 2005 Members Share Posted December 29, 2005 If you change the power tubes be sure to have a tech bias the amp, actually should do that anyway. In fact, that's probably why your tubes went (maybe biased too hot - for the tubes). It'll only cost $20 or so. I agree with you (I own a HRD) that the clean channel is by far the best, but you can get more usable "crunch" from your clean by using other tubes. You can lower the headroom by using 6V6 power tubes in lieu of 6L6s, but that's more tricky (gotta use the right ones or they'll blow). Below is a link to a site with all kinds of HRD tips. http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted December 29, 2005 Members Share Posted December 29, 2005 Gris had some good thoughts, but if you're after that clean sound, putting 6V6's in your amp will change the sound to a more Class A style clean - low head room and dirty crunch at high gain. If you want the clean, go NOS or good new tubes and stay with the 6L6's. I've had lots of experience with these new PCB Hot Rod Fenders, and I've been playing the better part of two decades, so I can speak from experience. The JJ tubes are OK, not stellar, but OK. If your budget is more on the new tube end, stay with the Tung-Sols (12AX7 pres) and the Svetlanas (6L6 power). JJ's work well in Class A amps, like a Vox or a Matchless, but the Deluxe will like the Tung-Sols better. If you want to be DONE with it, spend the bucks and buy NOS. I picked up a Crate Vintage Club 1x10 combo a while back, and all I did to it was swap tubes, but I used NOS Amperex Bugle Boy's and Polam/Telams, and that amp went from being so-so to one that can run with the Boutique boys. Tubes WON'T fix the gain channel on the Hot Rods, I don't care what anybody says. I've had many guys tell me that, but none that can really deliver. The clean side is very nice, and good tubes will smooth it out and give a nice, 'softer' edge to any pedals that you'll use. Get the clean channel smoothed out, and then use a good OD pedal, like a Bad Monkey or Tube Screamer to push the front end of the amp and I think you'll have what you're after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RICK330MAN Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 I own two Hot Rod Deluxes and have experimented with all sorts of tubes and speakers in these things. When it comes to power tubes (6L6 varieties), I have tried the JJs; Sovteks; SEDs, Shuguangs, Groove Tube 6L6 GE, JAN Philips 6L6WGB and others. To my ears, the clear winner is the JAN Philips 6L6WGB. They produce amazing clarity and soundstage in these amps. Also, these amps are very heavy on the bass. These power tubes are not. A perfect match! And because they are 25 watt tubes - not 30 watt - you can set your bias a little colder to get your ideal idle dissipation setting. No matter what I experiment with, I always wind up back with the JAN Philips 6L6WGB. A close second is the SED6L6GC. These are 30 watt tubes. You have to bias them a little hotter - no less than 36MA per tube - but they do sound very good in these amps. A surprisingly cheap and yet good sounding tube is the Shuguang 6L6GC. I have tried the Groove Tube 6L6GE. Both sets I tried sounded amazing for about five hours. Then they just sounded like those SOVTEK 5881. The JAN Philips or the SEDs outperform them over the long haul. Save your $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wrightdude Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 If you want to improve the distortion tone stick a 12AT7 in V2. You will loose some gain... ie you will need to turn gain to 2:00 to get roughly the same satutation as 11:00 before (roughly speaking) but the quality of the tone will be MUCH better. Just grab any cheap $8 12AT7 and give it try! You can also try a 5751 in V2... will have a similar effct as a 12AT7, but with less loss of gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockon1000 Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 If you want to improve the distortion on the HRD the Eminence legend 125 speaker has got to go! Its a totally blues based american voiced speaker. An Eminance Wizard or V-30 will improve the distortion 1000%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Robotechnology Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by rockon1000 If you want to improve the distortion on the HRD the Eminence legend 125 speaker has got to go! Its a totally blues based american voiced speaker. An Eminance Wizard or V-30 will improve the distortion 1000%! +1 Vintage 30 speaker swap and put 2 Ruby 12AX7's in V1 & V2, a JJ in V3 and JAN Phillips 6L6's in the power tube section. Or you can just buy mine done up this way and sell yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by Gris Below is a link to a site with all kinds of HRD tips. http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton That is THE site for the HRDx. There are also power tube reviews on that site, the NOS ones were written by yours truly quite a while ago. I have Winged Cs (SEDs) in mine right now and am about to get some WGBs in a trade for some preamp tubes to check out. I can't believe that those WGBs are still around in the quantity they are for that low a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Robotechnology Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 What are WGB's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by Robotechnology What are WGB's? They're 25 watt 6L6s as opposed to the 30 watt GCs. Tung Sol 5881s have close specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesmann Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 I also have 2 hotrod deluxes and i use the stock tubes with no problems. But the fenders come biased to cold 60ma. I run mine at about 70ma. The only preamp tube that i would change would be the inverter tube. This is the preamp tube closest to the power tubes. And a 12AT7 is the ticket. Now your overdrive channel will work like it should. Just buy a good matched set of 6L6GC tubes and set your bias near 70 ma. Check out justins site and you'll learn how to bias your anp. Save yourself some bucks and get some good tone to boot. Amp biased cold = whats called ice pick.Take your time and be careful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockon1000 Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by Robotechnology What are WGB's? I believe he's referring to JAN/Philips 6L6WGB NOS bottles. Ive got a set in my Ultra 112.Hers a link http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-6l6wgb.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Boogie Man Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by Gris If you change the power tubes be sure to have a tech bias the amp, actually should do that anyway. In fact, that's probably why your tubes went (maybe biased too hot - for the tubes). It'll only cost $20 or so. I agree with you (I own a HRD) that the clean channel is by far the best, but you can get more usable "crunch" from your clean by using other tubes. You can lower the headroom by using 6V6 power tubes in lieu of 6L6s, but that's more tricky (gotta use the right ones or they'll blow). Below is a link to a site with all kinds of HRD tips. http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton Don't put 6V6's in your amp, even if they don't blow right away, they won't last long. Please don't do this to your amp, you will void the warranty and speaking of that, I think the amp has a 5 year warranty so they should replace the tubes as part of it shouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by The Boogie Man Don't put 6V6's in your amp, even if they don't blow right away, the won't last long. Please don't do this to your amp, you will void the warranty and speaking of that, I think the amp has a 5 year warranty so they should replace the tubes as part of it shouldn't they? I agree. The only 6V6s I would even consider putting in my HRDx are the JJs which have proven to be extremely overbuilt and hold up at over 500 volts. I would trust Justin if he says they are safe to use in that capacity. He has forgotten more than the designers ever knew about this amp. I don't really remember if tube changes are included in the warranty. I never had to use it myself. And yes I was referring to the Sylvania/Philips 6L6WGB, which like the 6V6 does not have specs adequate for use in the HRDx, though Fender says they'll be fine for it. These tubes as well as the Tung Sol 5881 were commissioned by the military for use in high dollar equipment like jets and the like and consequently were also overbuilt. Very tough tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Boogie Man Posted January 1, 2006 Members Share Posted January 1, 2006 Originally posted by Sparky6string I agree. The only 6V6s I would even consider putting in my HRDx are the JJs which have proven to be extremely overbuilt and hold up at over 500 volts. I would trust Justin if he says they are safe to use in that capacity. He has forgotten more than the designers ever knew about this amp. I don't really remember if tube changes are included in the warranty. I never had to use it myself. And yes I was referring to the Sylvania/Philips 6L6WGB, which like the 6V6 does not have specs adequate for use in the HRDx, though Fender says they'll be fine for it. These tubes as well as the Tung Sol 5881 were commissioned by the military for use in high dollar equipment like jets and the like and consequently were also overbuilt. Very tough tubes. He has forgotten more than the designers ever knew about this amp. If he has forgotten it how does he know he ever knew it? I've swapped 6L6' for 6V6's in my Deluxe and it sounded to gritty for my taste. If the tubes arn't part of the warranty, then the warranty ain't worth {censored}. Wouldn't you will violate it the first time you swap tubes? I have a '99 Blues Jr. with all the original tubes and it still works fine, I test the tubes in all my amps about once a year and they still all test fine in the BJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sparky6string Posted January 2, 2006 Members Share Posted January 2, 2006 Originally posted by The Boogie Man He has forgotten more than the designers ever knew about this amp. If he has forgotten it how does he know he ever knew it? I've swapped 6L6' for 6V6's in my Deluxe and it sounded to gritty for my taste. If the tubes arn't part of the warranty, then the warranty ain't worth {censored}. Wouldn't you will violate it the first time you swap tubes? I have a '99 Blues Jr. with all the original tubes and it still works fine, I test the tubes in all my amps about once a year and they still all test fine in the BJ. I still haven't tried the JJ 6V6s in my HRDx, and there's a good chance I never will. I like clean head room in this amp, so if anything I would sub some 7581s. Because I never used the warranty I don't know the first damn thing about it, but I'm sure that swapping in some 6V6s will void it. Of course I'm not recommending that anyone violate the terms of the warranty at any time. Like your Blues Jr I would bet that the tubes the HRDx ships with would probably last throughout the warranty period for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Boogie Man Posted January 2, 2006 Members Share Posted January 2, 2006 Originally posted by Sparky6string I still haven't tried the JJ 6V6s in my HRDx, and there's a good chance I never will. I like clean head room in this amp, so if anything I would sub some 7581s.Because I never used the warranty I don't know the first damn thing about it, but I'm sure that swapping in some 6V6s will void it. Of course I'm not recommending that anyone violate the terms of the warranty at any time. Like your Blues Jr I would bet that the tubes the HRDx ships with would probably last throughout the warranty period for most. I have to agree with you the FDP Forum Sucks Ass. Interesting little fact. Several years ago I replaced all the original RCA tubes in my '75 Twin Reverb, I tested them and discovered the preamp tubes and driver were almost dead yet it played well, the 4 power tubes all RCA tested very good, strange but true, and am saving them for a back up or if I ever sell it I'll give them to the new owner. I gigged with that amp for over 10 years with the original tubes. I think it pays using the Standby switch for warm ups, as I always warm it up 2 or 3 minutes in advance of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members terry5357 Posted January 2, 2006 Members Share Posted January 2, 2006 if I wanted to get good headroom and just use a stompbox on the clean side what kind of tube for pwr and pre. And if I want to try to use the drive side what kind of pre tube that would let the drive side maybe get a better tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RICK330MAN Posted January 2, 2006 Members Share Posted January 2, 2006 There was a cross reference here a few years ago to a web page that gave you all the design spec sheets and schematics for tubes. The JAN Philips 6L6WGB was Philips effort to corner the military demand for 5881s after Tung Sol decided to stop making tubes. I remember reading on the military spec sheet that they expected zero failures at 400 volts on the plates. Along the same lines, there was a specialty amp guru on the net who claimed that his testing showed you could run the JAN Philips 6L6WGBs at 500 volts. I do have a pair that I have run at just about that level. They are still holding up fine, but I am not recommending that anyone use them in that manner. The design spec plate voltage on the HRDs is 430. I have seen as low as 427 and as high as 446. The JAN Philips 6L6WGBs take it fine. I have yet to have one fail on me in four years. However, they might not be as reliable in a DeVille, which runs at a higher plate voltage to get to 60 watts instead of just 40. My HRDs get JAN Philips 6L6WGBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members terry5357 Posted January 2, 2006 Members Share Posted January 2, 2006 Originally posted by RICK330MAN [ Along the same lines, there was a specialty amp guru on the net who claimed that his testing showed you could run the JAN Philips 6L6WGBs at 500 volts. I do have a pair that I have run at just about that level. They are still holding up fine, but I am not recommending that anyone use them in that manner. The design spec plate voltage on the HRDs is 430. I have seen as low as 427 and as high as 446. The JAN Philips 6L6WGBs take it fine. I have yet to have one fail on me in four years. However, they might not be as reliable in a DeVille, which runs at a higher plate voltage to get to 60 watts instead of just 40.My HRDs get JAN Philips 6L6WGBs. I just got done looking at tubes at tubestore.com and just ordered wgb's for my deville, the are supposed to be great and are supposed to work in my amp. @ $60 for a pair it's not like its a huge investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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