Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Audacity Works

New Yamaha Motif XF

Recommended Posts

Every one that has samples - Nord Electro series, Nord Wave, Nord Piano.



Lets take the NordWave as an example:

189Mb Flash Memory (180Mb for user samples)

That is built in Flash I assume.

We were all thinking Yamaha is launching a synth that can take SDHC cards (OK the royal we :lol:) IE you could plug in 32 Gigs of waves.

As spotted they show a flap and PCB with chips, not sure if that is the flash or something like a VA expansion.

If the allow massive big flash cards to be poked in by a user that is the big difference.

Once again not aware of any synth that can do that.

I also recall on teh Nord's you need a PC editor to write the codec into the waves you load. Nice that they give you it but very different to plugging a card in if that is what Yamaha are doing...

2nd of August...............;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe the current tone generator chip used in the Motif XS, designated SWP51 (see
this blog post
) can address up to 4 GB of memory, both RAM and ROM (ROM probably uses flash memory as well)..



That's getting into OASYS land as far as sample size.

Interesting times....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ya - I use the CF card for the OS too.

But I'm not so sure the memory upgrade is flash. When you boot up your Fusion, it loads samples into memory. When you load in a new sample from the hard drive or the card, it 'pushes out' a sample if the memory is full. But when you shut it off and boot it up again, it loads the stock sample set back in again. Not sure how it works with the memory upgrade because I never got it.


With flash memory, when you shut it down, it will boot back up with whatever samples you shut it down with. Sort of a semi-permanent memory.

Click on the link in my previous edited post for a discussion on it at one of the Fusion forums.



I installed the memory expansions in my Fusion (2 E3 modules) and it's not Flash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I installed the memory expansions in my Fusion (2 E3 modules) and it's not Flash.



E3

IIRC that's an expensive form of RAM. PC makers went back to cheaper style ram after that (in the PC133 etc days)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
E3


IIRC that's an expensive form of RAM. PC makers went back to cheaper style ram after that (in the PC133 etc days)...



Yup, MSRP was like 299 a piece (and you needed two). I got them when Sweetwater was blowing them out at 99 bucks a piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yup, MSRP was like 299 a piece (and you needed two). I got them when Sweetwater was blowing them out at 99 bucks a piece.



I bet that hit sales, shame Alesis could not hold out for the return to PC RAM. Then I guess no one was sure what way RAM was going when the started the Fusion design.... Shame it was a good board... Give or take the IF...

But hey that's been covered here... ;)

2nd of August
2nd of August
2nd of August.... :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Kurzweil K2600 with a speedy SCSI drive can load its maximum 128MB sample file in less than three minutes. Kurzweil's loading times improved significantly with the introduction of OS 2.52 for the K2500s. In a live performance situation this still seems like an eternity. I can't believe some of you guys are gigging with load time in excess of 10 minutes! You must love it when the sound guys accidentally cut power right before your sets.

With regards to the Alesis Fusion I believe it can load samples from a Compact Flash card, which will then disappear if power goes off. This is entirely different from having samples resident in non-volatile flash memory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now wouldn't it be a humdinger if the Motif XF came with NO Flash ram and it was considered "Optional"!

 

You can BET on it being proprietary. There's already a picture that looks something like a memory chip for an expansion board and it's NOT a USB/SD type card. The primary goal for these companies is to make money and using off the shelf memory is not the way to do that. As long as they can make an excuse that Flash Memory for a camera isn't "Fast" or "Robust" enough for keyboards, they'll keep making proprietary modules to pad the bottom line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As long as they can make an excuse that Flash Memory for a camera isn't "Fast" or "Robust" enough for keyboards, they'll keep making proprietary modules to pad the bottom line.



As a design engineer myself, I also find it curious.

There are camcorders recording HD video with stereo sound to SD cards and a slew of 96/24 audio recorders (including Zoom's R16). For streaming applications off the shelf flash cards would work. Roland's SP404SX and the infamous (vaporware) Beat Thang are the only samplers I know of that can use SD in place of RAM.

The only reason I can think of is that the keyboard's OS needs to treat the flash like DRAM and it's just not fast enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now wouldn't it be a humdinger if the Motif XF came with NO Flash ram and it was considered "Optional"!

The wording "flash memory expansion" does not prelude the possibility that at least some flash memory will be installed at the factory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doesn't the M3 have the ROM also in Flash?



Yes a Secure Digital Card, but you can't add your own samples to it or edit the contents.

Also, the ROM samples from the Flash card are loaded into some other type of memory on power up, so the operating system is not using the SD card for realtime playback.

For example, the newer M3 Xpanded models have the four expansions pre-loaded on the SD card. However, to load all four at power up you have to have the EXB-M256 memory expansion installed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, the text and the slogans at the bottom:

 

Inspiration comes in a flash


Since 2001, the Motif Music Production Synthesizers have been the best sounding, top selling and most requested music workstations on the market. The next generation XF builds on the heritage of Motif, providing new features and groundbreaking Flash memory expansion capabilities that wiill set the standard for keyboard workstations for years to come.


For more info visit:
www.motifxf.com/eq

Play & Pefrorm

(two keyboards side by side)


Create & Produce

(keyboard and a notebook)


Customize & Make it Your Own

(expansion slots)


Connect & Expand

Motifator.com

 

Also, looks like that the controls on the Motif XF match the XS down to last button.

 

[attach]323863[/attach]

[attach]323864[/attach]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are camcorders recording HD video with stereo sound to SD cards and a slew of 96/24 audio recorders (including Zoom's R16).


For recording audio/video you need just sequential writes and you don't care about latency at all. Totally different requirements than for synth's sample memory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think that's possible with any type of available card formats. They use NAND flash chips that have quite high random access latency and most of them have too low random read speed. They're ok for playing one or few samples, but workstation demands much more from its sample memory to meet, for example, the polyphony specification. Workstation sample memory must guarantee simultaneous streaming of 128 samples (that can be located anywhere on the chip) with submillisecond latency, and you just can't get that performance from NAND flash used in consumer memory cards.




Thanks, not quite what I meant hence my comment regarding the sampler being different.

I am thinking of a Keyboard manufacturer offering the card slot as a way of loading. The same way you would load data with USB etc... Just the cards are small and fast and USB sticks sticking out has been an issue for some.

Most processing systems need fast ram on board to load those sample in as you suggest...

I like my MV8800 40 Gig drive and you load in to 500meg of RAM. For a groove focused machine 500Meg is plenty.

:wave:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Think there's any possibility existing XS boards will be able to do some kind of upgrade to an XF? Or is it a physical modification of the XS that will make it impossible.


Pre-announcements make for a lot of speculation.
:lol:



I wonder myself. More than likely it will require a board swap. Which in that case the best we can hope for is the opportunity to send the keyboard in.

They'll never allow that do be an end user upgrade. I've taken the board apart to re-solder the joints on the USB port and it's NOT for everyone.

This also assumes the case will accommodate the upgrade. If it won't we're SOL for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wave rom increased to 741MB
128 new voices (user1)
128 new performances (user1)
8 new drumkits
1248 new arp styles
32 new masters
128MB SD RAM on board for samples
optional flash boards, max 2*1GB
improved file management
new keyboard action
user definable LCD colour scheme
drum kit edit within mixing mode
optimised category search
TAP tempo function

FYI-loading time for flash is approx 2.4 seconds for 1MB. 512MB takes about 20mins to load

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh, should I have expected anything more from Yamaha?

 

As usual, absolutely -zero- innovation...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FYI-loading time for flash is approx 2.4 seconds for 1MB. 512MB takes about 20mins to load



That's fast enough since it's something you're unlikely to reload very often. 128MB out of the box sounds OK to me, if expansion is real expensive I could probably live without it for some time.

Drool factor is increasing rapidly....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, you innovation lovers:

When an innovative synth comes out do you buy it?

FS1R: sales failure
VL1/7, Prophecy, Z1: sales failure
Moog Voyager OS: sales failure
Fusion: sales failure
Andromeda: sales failure
Beat Thang: ridiculed

etc.

Why don't you guys start your own companies like Dave Smith did? Oh I forgot, he's not innovative enough :bor:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who cares about sales?



Innovative ideas that aren't economically viable get buried, that's why.

The USA put men on the moon with 60s (primitive) technology, so how come we don't have airline service to the moon yet?

I want my jetpack, and I want it now!!! :blah: :blah:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...