S90ES Too Heavy - Replacments to Consider: MOX8? PC3K7? Motif XF7?

[AnotherScott]

Just noticed prices on the Nord Stag e line - outrageous... the Stage 2 w/only 76 keys, is over 4K : Too rich for my blood...

Yup. The 73-key is cheaper... but it doesn't have the weighted action.

[AnotherScott]

 

So if I did wind up w/a rack unit - Motif Rack ES or XS - I'd have to then lug along a separate submixer to be able to feed all 3 of my keybd. sources to the FOH mixer: Korg Triton Le, Motif Rack & ____________ (whatever replaces the S90ES ).

 

 

There are (at least) two possible solutions:

 

1. Just as your two sources are currently the Korg Triton LE and the S90ES, your two sound sources could just be the Korg Triton LE and the Motif Rack. Since the Motif Rack gives you basically the same sound set you have now, you're not out anything. Yes, you're bringing around another board to drive the Motif Rack, but you don't necessarily need to use its sounds, so it does not have to hooked into the mixer.

 

2. If the board you happen to pick to drive the Motif Rack is the PX3, and you find that you really would like to use some of its sounds, as it happens, the PX3 has a "line input" feature. You can take the audio out of the Motif Rack, run it into the PX3's Line In, and the PX3 sounds and the Motif Rack sounds will then be merged into a single stereo output on the PX3, so you then run the PX3's Line Out to the mixer and it will provide both the PX3 and Motif Rack sounds at that mixer input.

[GigMan]

There are (at least) two possible solutions: 1. Just as your two sources are currently the Korg Triton LE and the S90ES, your two sound sources could just be the Korg Triton LE and the Motif Rack. Since the Motif Rack gives you basically the same sound set you have now, you're not out anything. Yes, you're bringing around another board to drive the Motif Rack, but you don't necessarily need to use its sounds, so it does not have to hooked into the mixer. 2. If the board you happen to pick to drive the Motif Rack is the PX3, and you find that you really would like to use some of its sounds, as it happens, the PX3 has a "line input" feature. You can take the audio out of the Motif Rack, run it into the PX3's Line In, and the PX3 sounds and the Motif Rack sounds will then be merged into a single stereo output on the PX3, so you then run the PX3's Line Out to the mixer and it will provide both the PX3 and Motif Rack sounds at that mixer input.

 

 

I'm not keen on Option No. 1 - if I have some kind of MIDI voodoo and for some reason I can't get the rack to be triggered and make sound - - in that scenario I'm screwed if I only have a dummy controller that makes no sound, cause the Triton Le is NOT enough to carry me for a whole gig...

 

But Option No. 2 is an EXCELLENT solution, great info!

[Randyman]

Yeah, the Stage is 6 part multi-timbral. Like I said, these boards are sturdy, and personally I would have confidence buying used, in which case you can get a lot better deal, and certainly one for under 3 grand.

 

So far you've got 4 criteria:

1. as many keys as possible

2. low weight (and I presume, short length)

3. realistic price (under $3k?), and

4. good bread and butter sounds.

 

Have you considered a 5th criteria, like how much you like the board itself?

~ The quality of the sounds to your ear

~ The keybed/voicing to finger expressiveness

~ The interface

 

You have the luxury of having a board you're already using, which gives you time to do more research on the above criteria. For many many folks (I wouldn't guess the majority, but many nonetheless), the Nord approach is preferable to getting a workstation.

 

A workstation is cool 'cause you've got sequencing, sampler, tons and tons of voices, and on and on. And I have to admit that shelling out serious moohlah for a stage keyboard doesn't seem to make sense- of course you want all those features, more is always better.

 

The problem is, workstations are by necessity a jack of all trades (I've had the XS7 and the Korg M3-61). I'd say the Kronos comes to the closest to my ideal of a workstation, but no matter which one you get, you're saddled with a LOT of technology. Some people love that and are willing to put in the work required to audition hundreds/thousands of sounds to find their favorites, and spend weeks/months/years learning to tame the beast to their requirements.

 

And the reason I'm going to this much trouble to write all this, is to put a little ? mark in your path, esp. if you get bogged down in the technology. The Stage offers, IMO, IME, fantastic sounds, an interface that's wicked fast (more akin to analog synths with a knob for everything), light weight, short length, and a satisfaction in playing that I rarely experienced with the workstations (to be fair, I like weighted action, and both of those boards were unweighted; but still...). It's more specialized than a workstation, and it shows.

 

We're all so used to jumping on the more is better bandwagon, have to have the most features and voices, that the very different approach of aiming at simplicity can be easily discounted. It took me several arranger keyboards and workstations before I even tried another approach, and I'm glad I did (though I have to admit a Kronos 73 would be mighty sweet...).

[pdiddy]

Hey Gigman, I went through the same dilema last year. Settled on the S70XS. It was only an inch and a half shorter than my S90 and just a few lbs lighter. Looked at the same options you are considering and hesitated for the same reasons. I can really empathize with where you're at. In the end I am happy with my decision and haven't

2'nd guessed my decision.

1. I made a little progress on lightening my load without adding to my setup routine. This year i'm planning a switch to a good soft case which will further this goal.

2. I upgraded my soundset & polyphany over the S90. Warning - you will miss the S700 for at least 6 months. I finally found a couple tunes where the the S6 works but use the non flagship patches mostly for the brighter piano sounds.

3. The small screen - not really an issue for me. I do all my layering and fiddling at home and don't tweak much at a gig. Even so, its easy to setup a layer on the fly.

4. The board is a great value for the $.

5. Like you I have years invested in learning yamaha speak.

6. In the back of my head I had this crazy idea about chopping it down to size - I haven't gone there yet...

[AnotherScott]

 

Warning - you will miss the S700 for at least 6 months.

 

A lot of people seem to miss that S700. But it is available as a free extra downloaded sound for the Motif XF (if you have enough memory installed to hold it), and they had it available for the Motif XS as well. (I don't know if these are all absolutely identical, though.)

[The Pro]

I'm not keen on Option No. 1 - if I have some kind of MIDI voodoo and for some reason I can't get the rack to be triggered and make sound - - in that scenario I'm screwed if I only have a dummy controller that makes no sound, cause the Triton Le is NOT enough to carry me for a whole gig... But Option No. 2 is an EXCELLENT solution, great info!

 

I like the idea of the PX3 and a Motif Rack but I would change the rack unit to a Motif XS6 or XS7. That would give you a great light 88-note controller with giggable internal sounds and a powerhouse 61 or 76-note keyboard for your second tier. Combined they have great sound and all the choices you could ask for, but individually they could each pull off a gig too, just in case. I have a Yamaha Motif XS6 that I use mostly in the studio... it's a keyboard that can certainly carry a gig.

 

For several years I used a Radio Shack piano (Casio CDP-100) with a Yamaha 9000 Pro arranger with the PLG150PF piano card. I only used the RS piano as a controller. Great portable system that looked as good as it sounded.

[AnotherScott]

 

I like the idea of the PX3 and a Motif Rack but I would change the rack unit to a Motif XS6 or XS7. That would give you a great light 88-note controller with giggable internal sounds and a powerhouse 61 or 76-note keyboard for your second tier.

 

That would make sense except it sounds like he's already using a Triton LE as his second tier, and probably doesn't want to add a third...

[The Pro]

 

That would make sense except it sounds like he's already using a Triton LE as his second tier, and probably doesn't want to add a third...

 

 

I would thin the herd starting with the outdated Triton LE. Yes, I read he's "holding on (to the TritonLE) for dear life" but maybe it's time to breath some new life into his setup. The Motif XS would do just that.

[GigMan]

I would thin the herd starting with the outdated Triton LE. Yes, I read he's "holding on (to the TritonLE) for dear life" but maybe it's time to breath some new life into his setup.

 

Still not ready to give up the Korg Triton Le - love the sounds in it (even though I hate the action, which is lightweight, plasticky & cheesy)! I think I will use it until it dies - on a gig...

[Pigger]

I have a Yamaha S90 (not the ES), and am gigging with it presently, but it is awfully heavy. This thread has been an interesting read.

[GigMan]

I like the idea of the PX3 and a Motif Rack but I would change the rack unit to a Motif XS6 or XS7. That would give you a great light 88-note controller with giggable internal sounds and a powerhouse 61 or 76-note keyboard for your second tier. Combined they have great sound and all the choices you could ask for, but individually they could each pull off a gig too, just in case. I have a Yamaha Motif XS6 that I use mostly in the studio... it's a keyboard that can certainly carry a gig.

 

That's an interesting idea, Pro - - aside from the fact that it would eliminate my outdated yet great-sounding & beloved Korg Triton Le... - - it would mean relying on the Casio PX3 as the weighted key dig. piano action 'board... that would be OK except that I'm reading a bunch of posts that say that the PX3's piano sound is a bit thin and anemic... I'll have to go hear it for myself but that's not encouraging.

 

And I know that if I got the Casio PX3 I could MIDI it up to the other sound source - whether it be a Motif XS or XF or Motif Rack... but I don't want to have to depend on that (a MIDI'ed up configuration) for my main piano sound - - maybe 'cause I'm so used to the beautiful S700 acoustic piano sound in the S90ES.

[AnotherScott]

I know that if I got the Casio PX3 I could MIDI it up to the other sound source - whether it be a Motif XS or XF or Motif Rack ... but I don't want to have to depend on that (a MIDI'ed up configuration) for my main piano sound - - maybe 'cause I'm so used to the beautiful S700 acoustic piano sound in the S90ES.

The reason to depend on that MIDI'ed up configuration is precisely because you're so used to the better sounds. You seem a little MIDI-phobic! But I think this is exactly what you'd want to do... use the PX3 for some of its sounds and its lightweight 88 keybed, but use it to trigger the far better piano sound in whatever Yamaha piece you end up with. It just takes running one MIDI cable, and setting a custom preset ("registration" as Casio calls it) so that you have a button on the PX3 panel that calls up the Yamaha piano sound. Once you set it up, it's as natural and transparent as if the Yamaha sound were residing in the Casio itself. That's one of the nice things about the PX3, its flexible MIDI controller functionality. There are a whole bunch of buttons you can use that basically eliminate the distinction between whether a sound happens to be located in the PX3 or somewhere else. A single button on the PX3 can just as easily call up a Casio sound, a Yamaha sound, or a combination of Casio and Yamaha sounds split or layered.

 

A PX3 with an XF6 or XF7 on top--with the PX3 set up to play the S700 sound from the XF--would be a really nice reasonably lightweight combo. If you want to play the S700 sound from weighted keys without having to carry an S90ES, that's how to do it.

 

BTW, the Motif XF holds custom samples. So you may be able to use that to bring along some of your favorite Triton LE sounds into this rig as well.

[The Pro]

Total agreement: Casio PX3 and Yamaha XF6. The Triton LE has a very limited life span ahead and the Motif XF is a logical replacement. Better to retire the LE in honor to your home studio than have it let you down on a gig and no longer be useable.

 

Dollar for dollar and pound for pound I don't think there's a better rig to be had for what you've given as criteria. Good challenge and good answers.

[ChristianRock]

Except maybe a Kronos 88 to cover EVERYTHING without needing a 2nd board

[GigMan]

Except maybe a Kronos 88 to cover EVERYTHING without needing a 2nd board

 

I have to use a 2nd 'board - 1 just doesn't cut it for me any more... I like having the full range or 88 or 76 keys on the bottom - with the 61 keys on top, to add "flavor" - - I know that I could just split an 88 key 'board and do it that way but it just wouldn't be as much fun for me to actually play - - - even though I do play wedding/banquet gigs for money, I still try to keep the "enjoyment" quotient as high as possible (for myself)...

[AnotherScott]

Except maybe a Kronos 88 to cover EVERYTHING without needing a 2nd board

 

Like GigMan, I always prefer two boards, for other reasons too... like having a weighted and unweighted action available... always having a "spare" if something goes wrong, or, especially in the case of the Kronos, being able to keep playing on something while you wait for the Kronos to reboot after a power glitch... ;-)

[GigMan]

Like GigMan, I always prefer two boards, for other reasons too... like having a weighted and unweighted action available... always having a "spare" if something goes wrong, or, especially in the case of the Kronos, being able to keep playing on something while you wait for the Kronos to reboot after a power glitch... ;-)

 

yes - the "having a spare factor is another important reason to use 2 kybds. on a gig - - if one goes south on you , or has technical difficulties for whatever reason, you still have kybd. #2 to play with

[GigMan]

Total agreement: Casio PX3 and Yamaha XF6. The Triton LE has a very limited life span ahead and the Motif XF is a logical replacement. Better to retire the LE in honor to your home studio than have it let you down on a gig and no longer be useable. Dollar for dollar and pound for pound I don't think there's a better rig to be had for what you've given as criteria. Good challenge and good answers.

 

...ok, so let's say I had a Casio PX3, using it sometimes for its built in sounds and sometimes layering or combining w/the sounds of the Motif XF6.

 

What if sometimes I want to play one sound w/right hand on the PX3) and a different sound altogether w/left hand on the XF6 - as I'm used to doing now, w/one hand on the S90ES and one on the Triton Le)

 

When playing the PX3 w/right hand on the bottom tier and the Motif XF6 on top tier - would I be able to play a completely different sound from it (the XF6), by sometimes physically playing it (w/left hand) at same time... ??

 

- - and the XF6 sounds being triggered/controlled from the PX3 - would they eat into the polyphony of no. of notes of poly I could play physically play live from the XF6 at same time?

[GigMan]

 

Like GigMan, I always prefer two boards, for other reasons too... like having a weighted and unweighted action available...

 

 

Yes - I do like that also: having a weighted action machine on bottom tier and "synth" action on top tier kybd.

[AnotherScott]

.- - and the XF6 sounds being triggered/controlled from the PX3 - would they eat into the polyphony of no. of notes of poly I could play physically play live from the XF6 at same time?

Every note the XF produces eats up its polyphony, it doesn't care which keyboard (or sequencer) you're using to trigger the sounds. If you are playing a 3 note organ chord on the bottom of the XF and a 3 note string chord on the top of the XF, that's a minimum of 6 notes of polyphony (i.e. if they are all mono, single-element sounds). If, instead, you play a 3 note organ chord on the bottom of the XF and a 3 note string chord on the Casio that is set to generate its sound only from the XF, it's still 6 notes of Yamaha polyphony. There's nothing magic about this, I think it's much simpler than you're making it out to be. A note played by the XF sound engine is a note played by the XF sound engine, regardless of how it is triggered.

[GigMan]

That was a little cryptic, but if I understand the question, the answer is yes. You can assign a Casio sound to the top half of the Casio, a Yamaha sound to the lower half of the Casio, while playing another Yamaha sound from the Yamaha's own keyboard. You can actually have numerous XF sounds split and layered over the Yamaha's own keyboard while playing additional Yamaha sounds split and layered over the Casio keyboard (regardless of whether or not you are playing Casio sounds from the Casio keyboard as well). Every note the XF produces eats up its polyphony, it doesn't care which keyboard (or sequencer) you're using to trigger the sounds. If you are playing a 3 note organ chord on the bottom of the XF and a 3 note string chord on the top of the XF, that's a minimum of 6 notes of polyphony (i.e. if they are all mono, single-element sounds). If, instead, you play a 3 note organ chord on the bottom of the XF and a 3 note string chord on the Casio that is set to generate its sound only from the XF, it's still 6 notes of Yamaha polyphony. There's nothing magic about this, I think it's much simpler than you're making it out to be. A note played by the XF sound engine is a note played by the XF sound engine, regardless of how it is triggered.

 

Ok this all sounds great - except that if it turns out the Casio PX3 has mostly "average" sounds (I haven't tried it yet so the jury - of my opinion - is still out) & I wind up using it as mostly a lightweight controller, then that means I'd be relying on mostly the Motif XF6's sounds... which are cool - - but I'm used to having TWO different sources of good sounds (Yam. S90ES & Korg Triton Le) that I like, each w/their own amount of polyphony - - the S90ES, 128 note poly... and the TLe, 62 notes - on which, btw - I notice note dropouts on the more complex Combi patches on the TLe, when I'm holding sustain pedal for a while...

 

One of the music teachers at the school district where I work raves about using Mainstage on a MacBook - says that's the way to go, a lightweight controller w/Mainstage & you're all set... w/tons of high quality sounds - - and CHEAP! only $29.99 for MS2 these days. I don't think I'm ready for that yet, though -dragging a laptop out to every gig.