Members Brain Becker Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Okay, I will. Here is what the people who wrote the Constitution meant: Thomas Jefferson: "The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;..." "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Saint George Tucker in Blackstone's Commentaries (1803): The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction. William Rawle (nominated to be the first U.S. Attorney General by Washington): "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both. Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urban Ghandi Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Flaming Turd = Perfect name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I don't care about the dickheaded comment, it was so general it had no effect.Don't your thoughts revolve around Canada first, or are you really more concerned with the rest of the world first, and oh, that place I live, whatever, its just a hunk of land (frozen land)? Alchemist's point proven. /Endthread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bostekrisco Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I take it you only possess those because you are enlisted in "a well-regulated militia" in service to the actual incorporated community in which you live, yeah? I assume that, because you invoked the Constitutional right to bear arms, which is very, very explicit about the nature of and context for that right.But what am I saying? Of course, you already know your Constitutional law! The Second Amendment doesn't require membership in a well regulated militia, or any militia for that matter, in order to keep or bear arms. Think of it this way: There were thousands and thousands of people who, at the time the Bill of Rights was written, kept and bore arms that were NOT part of a "well-regulated militia." Had the framers of the constitution meant for the Second Amendment to protect from infringement to only those in such a militia they would have dealt differently with the other gun owners at that time. So the OP, assuming he's not violating any of the thousands of gun related laws currently on the books, has every right to own those guns even if he is not " enlisted in a well-regulated militia in service to the actual incorporated community in which he lives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I don't care about the dickheaded comment, it was so general it had no effect.Don't your thoughts revolve around Canada first, or are you really more concerned with the rest of the world first, and oh, that place I live, whatever, its just a hunk of land (frozen land)? Its not about having your country first, and the rest of the world second, thats fine. Its about having your country first, and the rest of the world as nothing but trivial information. I've found this to be the case with americans, a bit with canadians but not as much. I've not encountered the same attitudes in europe, but I may be wrong. I have spent about 8 years of my life in europe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cfgsteak Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Alchemist's point proven./Endthread LOL! So you guys really get up every morning more concerned about other countries other then the one you LIVE IN? Seriously? You are more concerned with what is going on in say, Zambia, then you are with your own local politics? You are more concerned with labor laws in Thailand then you are in your own local crime? Wow...that just seems weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Save The Pine Weasel Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Again, if I'm wrong about this, hopefully someone will correct me... The Militia Act of 1903 defines the militia basically as all able bodied male citizens between 17 and 45, and females who are in the National Guard. So, yes, he probably is considered part of the "militia". In any case, the 2nd Amendment says the right of "the people" shall not be infringed, not the right of "the militia". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 LOL! So you guys really get up every morning more concerned about other countries other then the one you LIVE IN? Seriously? You are more concerned with what is going on in say, Zambia, then you are with your own local politics? You are more concerned with labor laws in Thailand then you are in your own local crime?Wow...that just seems weird. No, but im also not of the belief that my country is the ONLY that means anything, and I dont believe that people from another country know {censored} all about mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cfgsteak Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Its not about having your country first, and the rest of the world second, thats fine. Its about having your country first, and the rest of the world as nothing but trivial information. I've found this to be the case with americans, a bit with canadians but not as much. I've not encountered the same attitudes in europe, but I may be wrong. I have spent about 8 years of my life in europe though.Wow, that is a huge generalization! One I only thought an ignorant American would be capable of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Assiah Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I understand, but it begs the question, even if the OP simply enjoys shooting, what purpose does a Military designed CQB gun, with a torch and extendended barrel/silencer attached have? Does he enjoy nighttime shooting inside a house? Wants it to be quieter for fun? I doubt it....its just to feel cooler....Im training to be a CSI and Psychological Profiler, with the intense course starting september, so yeah, I have an idea of these things. This is not meant as a shot, pardon the pun, but an armchair psychologist like myself can make those deductions. To feel cooler? Exactly. People buy a vast array of things to "feel cooler". Hell, half of the stuff out there is marketed to you with that in mind. My problem is more with blanket statements which equate guns as you described above with psychos. While it may statistically be the case that the two things are related, it still obviously doesnt hold in every case. Ill admit, that the desire to shoot a really cool looking gun with bunches of deadly gadgets is one of mans baser desires dealing heavily with territorial control and power. But is there anything wrong with enjoying these things responsibly? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flaming turd Posted April 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I understand, but it begs the question, even if the OP simply enjoys shooting, what purpose does a Military designed CQB gun, with a torch and extendended barrel/silencer attached have? Does he enjoy nighttime shooting inside a house? Wants it to be quieter for fun? I doubt it....its just to feel cooler.... Im training to be a CSI and Psychological Profiler, with the intense course starting september, so yeah, I have an idea of these things. lol, if you see a suppressor anywhere in that picture, you're a dip{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Wow, that is a huge generalization! One I only thought an ignorant American would be capable of... Actually that was an observation based on my experiences, not a generalization given that I only stated it as opinion. If my experiences had been different, then so would my opinion....no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cfgsteak Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 No, but im also not of the belief that my country is the ONLY that means anything, and I dont believe that people from another country know {censored} all about mine. what? seriously, what the hell are you saying? I think you guys are hilarious. "ALL Americans think this and that!" like ALL Americans think the same way...wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cfgsteak Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Actually that was an observation based on my experiences, not a generalization given that I only stated it as opinion. If my experiences had been different, then so would my opinion....no? Well, let me know the next time you are in Denver. I would gladly buy you a beer and introduce you to some people that actually do care and know about other parts of the world then just the US. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 what? seriously, what the hell are you saying? I think you guys are hilarious. "ALL Americans think this and that!" like ALL Americans think the same way...wow! See, now your assuiming that im saying all americans. Where im not. Im just saying you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I believe in the Second ammendment and I also support Strict Gun Control Laws, Theyre a logical neccessity. Ive seen it mentioned that this is a cultural issue and I couldnt disagree more. How do you prepare, defend against or otherwise prevent an individual from Snapping? How is that a Cultural Issue? I dont believe that there is anything within our Culture that enables Psycopathic behaviour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 lol, if you see a suppressor anywhere in that picture, you're a dip{censored}. Dude, Dont shoot me!I said an extended barrel/silencer, the variety of different answers I gave would imply that I was unsure of what it was, but whatever it is, it supports my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flaming turd Posted April 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Dude, Dont shoot me!I said an extended barrel/silencer, the variety of different answers I gave would imply that I was unsure of what it was, but whatever it is, it supports my point.lol, please point out a silencer, and tell me what is wrong with an exended barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Assiah Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 lol, please point out a silencer, and tell me what is wrong with an exended barrel. Nothing, just like theres nothing wrong with people owning pointy guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StringBreaker Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I never failed to be amazed that England is so perfect that it leaves it's citizens so much time to criticize what people are doing 3,000 miles away. Who do you think you are, Americans? Don't worry British citizens! Even those guns can't fire across the Altlantic Ocean. You are safe from flaming turd and all the other crazy Americans!Unless you break into our houses at night...Really though, why the concern from the Brits? We don't get in your face about your social class system. Its not the UK I worry about, its the 30+ dead at that school because its so easy to get hold of guns like that in your backward country. But its too late to worry about those people isnt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 lol, please point out a silencer, and tell me what is wrong with an exended barrel. You really dont get my point do you? lmao! What purpose do you have for an extended barrel and a torch on that gun? I bet its not "For Sport" (Because its a CQB gun, and of course a longer barrel on a CQB gun would serve no purpose) And I bet its not for "Protection" Cos you need that extra range and accuracy when someones breaking into your house right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth Man Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 YO There was a law recently that a london cab driver had to carry a bail of hay in there trunk. Sometimes laws get old. Please dont shoot me I'm pretty sure there's still a valid medieval law that says all men and boys have to practice archery on Sunday mornings here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Well, let me know the next time you are in Denver. I would gladly buy you a beer and introduce you to some people that actually do care and know about other parts of the world then just the US. Seriously. I'll gladly go out for a beer:) I know there are many decent, intelligent american people, I have quite a few american friends. I am just speaking of the general population which I have observed, not as a true representative total. I think this general egocentricism is mostly because of what people see on TV. If you watch TV in europe, Canada, etc. You are flooded with american, and other foreign programming (canada not so much obviously, we get mostly american, and the oddy {censored}ty french channels). You get exposure to a lot of stuff that way. In the states, you dont really need to go to outside programming, pretty much everything you receive is american programming, and maybe the odd BBC special (and cheesy mexican soap operas). Even now, I have 300 channels... I think 40 of them at best are Canadian, and most of their programming is American lol.... everything else is American channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I'm pretty sure there's still a valid medieval law that says all men and boys have to practice archery on Sunday mornings here. There's a law here that says that its legal to shoot a man on a sunday on the top step of the lawhouse, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cfgsteak Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 See, now your assuiming that im saying all americans. Where im not. Im just saying you Actually the ALL comment was directed at Alchemist.Also, you need to tighten up your "cop" skills. I'm pretty freakin liberal and I actually do care about what is happening in the rest of the world, you know, places like Africa, the Balkans, the China/Nepal fiasco, organized crime in Russia, the Chechnya situation, etc. But yeah, when I wake up my main concern is for the place I live.I simply don't understand why any other country cares about our gun control laws. On the other hand, I COMPLETELY understand why the rest of the world care about our {censored}ed up foriegn policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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